Does the lack of HDMI kill the 1067?

[rlcramer]

I am in the process of gutting my very sad excuse for a home theater and building one from the ground floor. I've been doing lots of reading and listening to the various receivers out there. I'm coming from a Denon world where I loved all of the functionality of their midrange units (2800's and 3800's) but always hated the sound. I want to step up into something like a Rotel 1067, or an Arcam AVR300, but there are certain features that I've become accustomed to in the Denon that just aren't available in these 2 units. The upside though, is that the sound quality is light years better than anything that I've heard from Denon. The biggest thing that is missing in my eyes is HDMI switching. My main use for the receiver will be for HT (into a set of DefTech Mythos speakers and a Panasonic plasma), so this is a pretty big deal to me. I'd like to bring my DVD player and Xbox 360 into a receiver via HDMI and out to my monitor via HDMI to get the cleanest signal possible. I'd also like to bring everything into the receiver for easier control, so going from DVD and Xbox directly into the TV is not an option. My question for you is - will dropping back to component connections bring about a noticeable loss of quality? Also, will I be "trapped" in the future if the industry decides to say that HDMI connections will be a "requirement" for HD-DVD and/or BluRay? I'm just trying to be as future proof as possible - if I blow the cash on the Rotel, I'd like to not have to upgrade it in another 6 months, but I also don't want to waste my time with another Denon or Pioneer.

Any or all opinions would be appreciated.

Bobby

[Shane Martin]

Also, will I be "trapped" in the future if the industry decides to say that HDMI connections will be a "requirement" for HD-DVD and/or BluRay?

They are a requirement. Buying a reciever right now is tricky because of Blu Ray/HD DVD. If you want a receiver to last your for several years and be able to take advantage of the future formats then my best advice is to not buy or buy something to get you by. Since the addition of these formats require wholesale changes and current HDMI may not handle future formats, you may be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

For now I am buying a lesser expensive "throw away" H/K 635. That way when I sell it I can upgrade and not be out much. On higher end equipment unless you get the deal of a deal, your oppurtunity to take larger losses are more prevelant.

CES is the weekend of Jan 6th - 8th so you should atleast wait until all of the HD format announcements hit and future products for 06 are announced. Then if you see nothing changing, you can buy with confidence for atleast this year

My question for you is - will dropping back to component connections bring about a noticeable loss of quality?

On a Plasma, yes. Being that your plasma is a digital display, the conversion from component to digital is one thing you want to try to avoid. Going HDMI is a definite improvement. My friend just recently switched over to HDMI on his Panasonic Plasma 50".

I suspect we'll see quite a few "hd dvd/blu ray audio" receivers announced at CES. Monster which alot of folks hate has a processor that is the first to be approved for the new formats although they do not have any hardware yet.

[aud19]

On a Plasma, yes. Being that your plasma is a digital display, the conversion from component to digital is one thing you want to try to avoid. Going HDMI is a definite improvement. My friend just recently switched over to HDMI on his Panasonic Plasma 50".

That's not neccesarily true. I recently read a review of an LCD (also a digital display) that performed noticeably worse with the HDMI input than with the component input. So the truth is the HDMI input should be the best for digital displays but isn't always and can be display dependant.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with what he say's. HDMI is the future, however they're still finalizing future "versions" of it so buying something with HDMI now is still no guarantee that it will be completely future proof :roll: Also, FWIW Rotel is also planning on releasing an HDMI compatible scaler/switcher down the line which could be useful for you...? Maybe a 1056 or even a 1068/1075 seperate setup would work best for you to limit cost or conversely ease upgradeability

[rlcramer]

Thanks for the quick replies so far. A few people have tried to push me into the separates area, but I'm conditioned to think that they are exponentially more expensive than an all-in-one receiver. Does anyone know how much more a 1068/1075 would cost vs a 1067 in the US? I'm assuming the thought would be to upgrade only the 1068 when the time came?

[aud19]

Actually I believe they're almost the same price and they offer a much easier upgrade path

[Dmantis]

On a side note, I feel the HDMI is like S video cables. They fall right out. Even with the highest quality cables, this remains.

I have Installed many HDMI cables and tried many times to switch threw receivers. The cable and Dss receivers never pass.DVD players seem to work out fine and the new Xbox 360 I haven't tried.

Right now HDMI switching is a problem. Component is the only way to go if switching needs to happen. Untill they all agree with the same format for HDMI, then don't allow that to stop you from getting into something that sounds good like the rsx1067.

Forget aboout trying to be FUTURE PROOF. There is no such thing. the industry keeps changing and who is to say they don't come out with yet another video format.

DVI was a much better connections with it's computer screws. that was perfect. No audio was it's down fall. They should have passed Audio and video over DVI and all would be nice.

Good luck with your adventure. Buy now and be happy now, buy in the future and be happy then.

Also Rotel is suppost to be coming out with a video switcher. Look for it.

I have Installed Denon receivers for 6 years and know exaclty what your talking about with features. Nothing on the market beats Denon for features. You can always use a Denon as a preamp and buy a nice Rotel amp.


Dan

[grit]

Bobby, I had your same opinions. I wanted convenience and quality. Let me tell you what I've discovered (some of which is a repeat).

You'd think HDMI would be higher quality. Makes sense. Why go from a digital (DVD) signal, to an analog signal (component) back to digital (plasma)? That's GOTTA degrade signal. On my system, there's really no noticible difference between the two. However, running the video through a switcher (the pre/pro) can cause a degredation in the signal (however the Rotel doesn't seem to have this problem). Quality cables make a difference. This is nowhere near convenient, but macros on your remote can help out. Also, Rotel's upcoming video switcher maybe a route to consider.

As for future-proofing, Dan's right. They'll change something again and you'll be left out once more. I'd stick with worrying about quality. If convenience is the issue, look at solving that with a programmable remote.

You'll get quality with the Rotel 1067, and as was already mentioned, you can keep the amp (which sounds wonderful, I have one) and upgrade the pre/pro later (I also have the 1068).

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do.

[rushisrighton]

Why let one thing,....HDMI which isn't even finalized, has problems working between different types of gear, and in certain cases, is not an improvement over component (worse sometimes!!), overshadow all of the other things that you are actually buying your receiver for. There are plenty of switchers out there that can do this job better than any receiver can in a variety of price ranges, chances are you might end up wanting one of these down the road anyway due to changes/better functionallity or extra inputs.

I have a feeling that hdmi switchers are going to become alot cheaper and better, why let your receiver saddle you down, concentrate on what you are buying it for SOUND quality and processing abilities. I wish I could buy a hometheater receiver without any video hookups, with what that would save I could be well on to buying a dvdo Iscan (look how cheap there non dvi/hdmi units are now, hardly anyone needs rca & s-video now,yet my new receiver is litterd with them :M ) There is only one reason to not buy now (other than the cost of an outboard scaler) and thats the new HD surround formats soon to be released, which is why I felt compelled to buy a throw-away receiver to tide me over. This next year hopefully brings some of what we are waiting for, full circle. Can't wait!

[rlcramer]

Thanks again to everyone for the replies. This board has quicky become one of my favorite places to discuss audio.

I think I'm starting to see the light. Although I have a few bucks burning a hole in my pocket, I think I may wind up sitting tight until things start to hash themselves out this year with all of the new HiDef TV and DVD standards on the horizon. There's just too many variables that the industry is dealing with right now (1080P, BluRay, HDDVD, etc), and while I agree that things are probably never going to stop changing from here forward, there are too many things that I KNOW are going to change in the next few months, that it would be foolish to make a large purchase now - IMHO. I'd hate to dump a ton of money into a receiver and a DVD player now, only to have to upgrade 6 months down the road to a HiDef DVD player, and a new receiver to handle a potentially new HiDef Video connnector or at least a new "version" of HDMI. I think I may just pick up a throwaway receiver for now, concentrate on upgrading my speaker collection for now, and once all of the "stuff" gets hashed out hopefully before the end of 2006, I'll make a more permanent receiver / DVD player purchase, once I see what the rotel boys (or perhaps Arcam - ahhh the blashpemy) have up their sleeves.

Thanks for the ideas

Bobby

[aud19]

Another option that I believe was alreasy mentioned would be to get a $500-$1000 receiver now with say a 1075 amp for example. You could then move the receiver to a secondary system (or sell it) and you'd already have the amps for when you upgrade to a better pre/pro in a year or two.

~$800 should get you current HDMI switching, room correction and all current surround formats from the likes of Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon to enjoy now with the Rotel amplification and then you have an easy upgrade path. That's what I'd be doing :T

[Bostonears]

I recently read a review of an LCD (also a digital display) that performed noticeably worse with the HDMI input than with the component input. So the truth is the HDMI input should be the best for digital displays but isn't always and can be display dependant.

The relative quality of component video vs. HDMI can also be source dependent. Some DVD players, digital cable TV set top boxes, etc., are better at component video and/or HDMI than others. The component video quality from my Motorola high definition set top box to my Panasonic plasma is fantastic.

[aud19]

The source wasn't the issue, the review was by HT Mag. and they use the same sources for reviewing mutliple displays. That particular display's HDMI input was lower quality than others. Most HDMI inputs they review with the same source DO have slightly increased PQ over the component in's