Should I Keep My 1098?

[Madmoose]

I purchased this unit around March. I had the electrical snapping issues that some have described. At this point, its been at the dealer for a couple of months. Long story short, I can have it replaced with a brand new 1098 or pay a modest amount and upgrade? to a Lexicon MC-4. Except for the problem noted, I was generally happy with the 1098 performance, but don't want to get a new one, have the same issues, and have no recourse. Anyone compare these 2 units, share pros / cons of my choices, I would certainly appreciated it. FYI, my other equipment includes LX-7 amp and Rotel 1060 DVD. Thanks

[lvhung]

Audio is a thing that dependant on whole sys not just pre-amp

If your speakers is not revealing
you hear no " upgrade "

[Kevin D]

AFAIK, the major popping issues were only on the 1068/1056/1067 family. Your 1098 should be an isolated incident. As far as the dealer having it for two months that's pretty crazy. I'm not sure why you would have no recourse, it's not like three strikes and your out.

Of course depending upon your idea of modest, upgrading might not be a bad choice. Doesn't the MC-4 retail for about twice the 1098? I've always found Lexicon to be lacking for music, but honestly haven't had much seat time on the MC-12/8/4 line.

Kevin D.

[PiDD]

I would (did) give Rotel and the 1098 another chance ... I dont think you can beat it for the price.

Rob

[mjb]

I would (did) give Rotel and the 1098 another chance ... I dont think you can beat it for the price.

Rob

Seconded! I think the 1098 has great performance/$, and it sounds great in stereo too. Give it another chance.

Mike.

[Mark1Ace1]

I love my 1098. Rotel make great products at a particular price point, that most of us can afford...To quote Mrs Doyle (Father Ted) go on, go on, go on, go on - give it another try, you won't be disappointed...

Mark

[Zzap]

Ask if you can get them both home for a weekend and compare them on equal terms.
If you prefer the Lexicon and don't mind paying what they're asking - then by all means upgrade.
If not - you're "stuck" with the 1098 (have one myself ).

[lvhung]

ridiculous many still think that more expensive more confident

[PiDD]

So what did you decide?

[Adz]

I think everyone all around is in agreement that the Rotel 1068 dollar for dollar is one of the top great value great performers but with the 1098 you start getting into paying for the (IMO) senseless TFT screen which by itself does nothing to increase sonic performance, and the dude doesn't mind springing for the extra dollars for the Lex MC4 or perhaps wouldn't even mind steppin' up to the MC8. If money is no issue (and you fully understand that the extra dollars could go somewhere else in your system), then the Lexicon for HT performance is a no-brainer -- the surround steering and the clarity of the fronts are more than a step-up as compared to the Rotel. Lexicon for HT = ;x(

[Mark1Ace1]

Is that how you reacted in the shop when you heard the Lexicon, Adz. How quaint lol

Mark

[RebelMan]

I think everyone all around is in agreement that the Rotel 1068 dollar for dollar is one of the top great value great performers but with the 1098 you start getting into paying for the (IMO) senseless TFT screen which by itself does nothing to increase sonic performance,...

Not so. The cost to manufacture and utililze the TFT screen is far less than you think. Initially it was a little more than it is today but not anywhere near what I think you maybe assuming. Rotel has gone further in developing technologies and techniques that effect sound with the 1098 than they ever did with the 1068. Remember the 1068 is a derivative of the 1098. Its creation was based more on econmics than sound and it benefited from the R&D that went into the 1098. The 1068 is a good value but I find the 1098 to be a great one.

[Adz]

Not so. The cost to manufacture and utililze the TFT screen is far less than you think. Initially it was a little more than it is today but not anywhere near what I think you maybe assuming. Rotel has gone further in developing technologies and techniques that effect sound with the 1098 than they ever did with the 1068. Remember the 1068 is a derivative of the 1098. Its creation was based more on econmics than sound and it benefited from the R&D that went into the 1098. The 1068 is a good value but I find the 1098 to be a great one.

Hmmm... Rebel, I recall you and I have crossed paths before w/r/t this topic: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=14306

This is a Rotel forum but he should hear other views as well especially from former Rotel owners. Now I am sometimes a Rotel amp basher and for good reason, but not a processor basher, I owned the highly regarded unbelievably valued 1066 (my first foray into separates after owning a Pioneer receiver for a long time) and then owned the 1098. I didn't find much of a sonic difference (if any) and I paid almost 3x more for the 1098. I've never heard the 1068 myself so I can't confirm in my opinion if they have taken a step backwards from the 1066 as compared to the 1098 and therefore only have professional reviews and others' comments to go by in which we've all heard varying comparisons between the 1068 and the 1098 and lots of comments (for what they're worth) that much of the price difference was attributable to the screen.

Not intending to hi-jack the thread so I'll still stand by my recommendation that if the guy's willing to strongly consider the entry level Lexicon up against the Rotel, one opinion (mine) is that he should go with the Lexicon and never look back as I believe it to be an upgrade and worth the extra money even though that factor doesn't seem to be a consideration to him (Note: I went from the 1098 to the Bryston 1.7 and now I am considering the Lexicon myself after hearing it briefly for the first time -- what got me was the intense surround steering which I understand is do to their overall implementation and post-processing proprietary software).

[shadow]

If you cannot get an iron-clad guarantee from your dealer allowing you to return your 1098 if it is defective too, I would get the Lex.

[Madmoose]

Thanks for all the input. I decided to go with the 1098 and should receive a new one in about a week if all goes well. I'm assuming it will be perfect. If not, then on to plan B. I could do the money if I had to, but ended up thinking that I should expect the 1098 to not have these problems. That way, I'll get an HDTV that much sooner. I did not test the MC-4, and while I received feedback that it is an excellent home theater unit, perhaps it didn't fare that well in 2 channel. However, if I have issues with the replacement 1098, I will test the MC-4.

[RebelMan]

Hmmm... Rebel, I recall you and I have crossed paths before w/r/t this topic: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=14306

I've never heard the 1068 myself so I can't confirm in my opinion if they have taken a step backwards from the 1066 as compared to the 1098 and therefore only have professional reviews and others' comments to go by in which we've all heard varying comparisons between the 1068 and the 1098 and lots of comments (for what they're worth) that much of the price difference was attributable to the screen.

You insinuated that the price differences between the 1098 and the 1068 lied strictly with the the inclusion of the TFT screen on the 1098, which is not so. In the previous thread I mentioned that much of the price difference was related to the screen but not most of it and certainly not all of it as you seemed to think. I apologize if I made some gross assumptions with respect to your comments but nothing that I have said has been inconsistent, if that was your point.

[dermie999]

Madmoose you have made, IMO, a wise decison. My 1098 has been fault free from day one. However, I understand your concerns - from comments in this forum - Rotel have not been without their problems of late. These appear to have died down with their renewed focus on quality and with any luck you will have years of enjoyment from your 1098.

Trevor

[Adz]

You insinuated that the price differences between the 1098 and the 1068 lied strictly with the the inclusion of the TFT screen on the 1098, which is not so. In the previous thread I mentioned that much of the price difference was related to the screen but not most of it and certainly not all of it as you seemed to think. I apologize if I made some gross assumptions with respect to your comments but nothing that I have said has been inconsistent, if that was your point.

No, there was absolutely no point being made about inconsistency. Just kinda funny that we discussed the issue in the past and I remembered it! By the way, "insinuation" has such a negative connotation with it. I actually stated that when you spring for the extra $1,300 or so, one should note that you start paying for the screen which you may or may not want/need, and the $3,000 price tag begins to open up other possibilities in processors that one may not be considering. I believe that's a fact -- how much of that $1,300 or so is related to the screen versus upgraded components/performance, I do not know, Does anyone? Has Rotel published that information? Frankly, I couldn't tell the difference between my 1066 and my 1098, I'm sure others could or have, but I couldn't.

[RebelMan]

No, there was absolutely no point being made about inconsistency. Just kinda funny that we discussed the issue in the past and I remembered it! By the way, "insinuation" has such a negative connotation with it.

Understood. Nothing negative was intended by stating insinuated. The context in which it was used meant implied. :wink:

[Adz]

Understood. Nothing negative was intended by stating insinuated. The context in which it was used meant implied. :wink:

Cool! I thought so anyway.

[maddog]

... (Note: I went from the 1098 to the Bryston 1.7 and ...

So Adz, would you say the Bryston 1.7 is the "next level" in comparison to the Rotel 1098, or would you say that it's just an incremental upgrade? Enquiring minds want to know!

[DrJRapp]

The Bryston 1.7 the next level? Perhaps in price and build, but 2 ch SQ is only a small improvement, and I don't even like the surround steering as much, overall the unit is a huge step BACKWARDS from the 1098 in features and technology IMHO.

[Adz]

So Adz, would you say the Bryston 1.7 is the "next level" in comparison to the Rotel 1098, or would you say that it's just an incremental upgrade? Enquiring minds want to know!

IMHO - well everyone certainly has one of those. Here are some thoughts - some are opinion, some are fact. Make sure you can tell the difference.

There is at least one review out on the 1.7 where the reviewer thought the 1.7 was better than a Meridian pre/pro he tested, so go figure. Now I had the 1098 and the 1.7 in my same set-up, same acoustics, same everything. I would say it was in fact hard for me to determine if there was a discernable difference or not in the steering in the surrounds. Now if you want to talk about the front three and the sub, that's a whole different ballgame. The 1.7 smoked the 1098, ate it up and spit it out to the point where I needed to rehook up my Pioneer receiver to make sure the Rotel had done to it what the 1.7 was now doing back. It sounded as if I upgraded all my equipment around it. Clearly the Brsyton architecture and commitment to quality implementation of the DACS and circuitry around them was shining through, but I just do not know why I couldn't tell the same marked difference in the surrounds -- perhaps the surrounds have more to do with the software/DSP, not sure.

Build quality is no contest. Price is interesting. The Bryston can be had for about $1,500 more. But (if you believe the management of Bryston and so far there is no reason not to), then you know you have bought a processor that is future proof (no, not future proof like Rotel claims to be), but truly upgradeable for more than a small fee but certainly not the cost of the next generation Rotel pre/pro and the next and the next. Now, you may have to wait because Bryston has to take their time, assess the direction of the market and new technology and then move forward with an upgrade - they upgraded from the SP1 to the SP1.7 and now they are about to release a major software /new digital board upgrade including a much more powerful chip (the TI Aureus) which will probably cost around a $1,000 to send in for an upgrade, but just think-- I spent $4,000 combined on the 1066 and 1098, and assume Rotel comes out with its next generation processor (call it the "1198") and its another $3-4k, and I would have spent $7-8k in say less than 3-5 years to keep up, whereas I will spend considerably less on the Bryston.

Now, the Bryston does not have all the bells and whistles - for example, it has no video switching or video circuitry of any kind in its processor - just pure audio focused. Whether that improves the sound or not, who knows, but the theory Bryston espouses that video hardware can be a source of radio frequency interference which can cause audible loss of quality to the sound output in terms of interference/noise/distortion is interesting nonetheless, and it certainly can only help. Maybe that's why I thought my 1066 sounded as good as my 1098 since it didn't have a friggin' TV monitor attached to it. Perhaps its the lack of those bells and whistles which makes it sound so damn good. I do wish Bryston would one day add some sort of EQ program by the way!!

I'd love to have the upgrade dne to the Bryston and then compare it to a Lexicon MC12 in my home theater which I think my local dealer will lend to me. If the MC12 smokes it in my set-up (it does cost considerably more and has its own proprietary post-processing software), then I know with over 18 years left on my Bryston transferable warranty and the audiophile preamp it has, I'll be able to sell it for a lot more than I got for my 1098 (percentage wise, that is).

But a mistake a lot of people make is buying incredibly expensive processors and amplifiers and then hooking them up to less expensive speakers. If, instead, they bought a medium-price processor and amps and hooked them up to medium price speakers it would sound much better. So, my speakers may have to be next -- oh my 8O !

Finally, if you want to see what was going on at the time when I made the switch, here are two threads. You'll notice that some pretty knowledgeable people chimed in and also includes DrJRapp's review which did not appear to be in optimal conditions to make a fair comparison which I think he admits to. In the second thread, you'll see brucek's (HTG resident expert and electrical engineer I believe) thoughts on the video circuitry/switching issue.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=113268#post113268

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8595

[DrJRapp]

Yes, I admit that my audition of the 1.7 was under way less than optimal conditions. However, the conditions were definitly good enough to hear a recognizable difference in the overall surround steering between the 1.7 and the 1098. The 1.7 was much closer to my previous 1066 in surround steering than it is to the 1098. If you had a hard time descerning the huge difference between the 1066 and 1098, perhaps you were just so feature phobic about the 1098 that you never really got it set up optimally. Just a thought. Surround steering is something about the 1098 that ever single review ever written has highly praised. Surround steering by the way is not limited to the surrounds, but is how the overall soundfield is separated and steered between all speakers.

Perhaps it IS the lack of those bells and whistles which makes it sound so damn good to you. But as I said in the review you quoted: I drive a Jaguar rather than a Corvette because I prefer the comfort, sophistication and features of the Jag, rather than the pure speed of the Vette. This doesn't make the Vette a bad car, just not good for me.

Did you give your Rotel's away? I got $950 for my 1066 and I have a standing offer for $2000 for my 1098, so my total hypothetical net investment in Rotel so far is about $650. And assuming the next generation is $4000 list, and I'm dumb enough to negotiate only a 10% discount then my investment would be $4250 not 7-8K. Now how much was your 1.7 without the cost of the next upgrade?...Oh and you say it doesn't even have OSD? or PLIIx?

[RebelMan]

I really admire both the Rotel and the Bryston lineup, each for slightly different reasons, so I would be torn choosing one of the two, price not withstanding. Therefore, I think it would be prudent for me to stay out of this one.

Nice to be watching from the sidelines for a change. :lol:

[Adz]

Yes, I admit that my audition of the 1.7 was under way less than optimal conditions.

"Way Less" -- Thanks for pointing that out yesterday in your initial post. Seriously, you know better than that.

If you had a hard time descerning the huge difference between the 1066 and 1098, perhaps you were just so feature phobic about the 1098 that you never really got it set up optimally. Just a thought.

Agree, that is possible. But they were set-up the same way in the same system, same components, cabling, acoustics which is "way more" than most comparisons. From memory, I think I pretty much had all the same bass mangement and speaker settings for all three pre/pros, but if you can point out what features I may have missed for setting up the 1098 optimally, I would appreciate it. But again, I was just so blown away by the 1.7's impact on my main three speakers across the front soundstage that it may have been just to hard to tell which was better. Still that's not an answer though for the 1066 vs. 1098.

Surround steering is something about the 1098 that ever single review ever written has highly praised.

Are you 100% certain about that statement you just made or it that [literary] hyperbole?

Perhaps it IS the lack of those bells and whistles which makes it sound so damn good to you.

Well, you brought reviews into this. So, yes it does sound so damn good, but not only to me, but also to the others in those threads I cited and all the published reviews that I've seen where Bryston doesn't advertise.

But as I said in the review you quoted: I drive a Jaguar rather than a Corvette because I prefer the comfort, sophistication and features of the Jag, rather than the pure speed of the Vette. This doesn't make the Vette a bad car, just not good for me.

Makes sense. Before Ford bought them, at one time, I recall the Jaguar had some pretty miserable customer satisfaction and reliability ratings, much like Rotel's QC in recent past. :W

I have a standing offer for $2000 for my 1098, so my total hypothetical net investment in Rotel so far is about $650. And assuming the next generation is $4000 list, and I'm dumb enough to negotiate only a 10% discount then my investment would be $4250 not 7-8K. Now how much was your 1.7 without the cost of the next upgrade?

If you have a standing offer for $2k which includes an obsolescence clause for when the newest generation Rotel pre/pro comes out (which is really what only matters), can I have the person's name and contact details? I've been trying to get rid of my Pioneer Elite with Dolby Pro Logic for some time.

But seriously, I prefer to sleep at night knowing I have, with some sense of certainty, a future-proof pre/pro, rather than having to rely on my negotiating abilities or timing the market as to when the right time to sell is.

...Oh and you say it doesn't even have OSD? or PLIIx?

As noted on their Forum, the upgrade to the 1.7 will have DPLIIx, but no OSD as far as I know, so we'll have to just relish and appreciate more its audiophile-level commitment to sonic excellence. One good thing about Bryston is that you can talk to at least one of the owners directly anytime you want. I believe its still a closely held company owned by 6 individuals and users' opinions and comments matter and are taken into account which is pretty cool.

[Adz]

I really admire both the Rotel and the Bryston lineup, each for slightly different reasons, so I would be torn choosing one of the two, price not withstanding. Therefore, I think it would be prudent for me to stay out of this one.

Nice to be watching from the sidelines for a change. :lol:

I was trying to directly address Maddog's question to me with some opinion and some fact, and when I went to look up some of my thoughts at the time of my upgrade to the 1.7, I stumbled across the previous comparisons made between the 1098 and the 1.7 by others, that's all.

[DrJRapp]

=Adz


Makes sense. Before Ford bought them, at one time, I recall the Jaguar had some pretty miserable customer satisfaction and reliability ratings, much like Rotel's QC in recent past. :W

Yeah, but that was over 10 years ago. My XJ is near perfect. However, my Jag dealer sucks, like most Rotel dealers.

=Adz


If you have a standing offer for $2k which includes an obsolescence clause for when the newest generation Rotel pre/pro comes out (which is really what only matters), can I have the person's name and contact details? I've been trying to get rid of my Pioneer Elite with Dolby Pro Logic for some time.

I don't think Adam (his name too..just coincidence) will want to take a step backwards from his RSX 1056.

=Adz
As noted on their Forum, the upgrade to the 1.7 will have DPLIIx, but no OSD as far as I know, so we'll have to just relish and appreciate more its audiophile-level commitment to sonic excellence.

If that's all it's got going for it, I guess you'll have to. While you're doing that I'll be enjoying the sonic excellence of my 1098 along with the feature rich HT environment it creates. I know I won't have to wait until common everday features are nearly obsolete before my pre-pro manufacturer finally incorporates them. In the end we BOTH have to keep in mind where each is coming from: I'm an engineer that believes in elegant techno horsepower. You are a CPA that believes in brute force dollar horsepower.

[Adz]

[QUOTE=DrJRapp]Y

eah, but that was over 10 years ago. My XJ is near perfect. However, my Jag dealer sucks, like most Rotel dealers.

That's good news!

If that's all it's got going for it, I guess you'll have to. While you're doing that I'll be enjoying the sonic excellence of my 1098 along with the feature rich HT environment it creates. I know I won't have to wait until common everday features are nearly obsolete before my pre-pro manufacturer finally incorporates them.

I'm not sure I follow this one??? You only asked me if it was going to have PLIIx and OSD (which I assume stands for On Screen Display which makes for ease of use). And I answered yes for PLIIx and no for OSD. To then say that's all it has going for it, is not very fair, especially in light of the fact that I stated earlier its getting a pretty significant overhaul including an entire new digital board/new DSP with I am told as much or more processing power as some of the highest end pre/pros. I'll get the list of its new features and post it.

[maddog]

... Now I had the 1098 and the 1.7 in my same set-up, same acoustics, same everything...

Yes, there really is no substitute for that kind of comparison. Thanks for the response!

[RebelMan]

I was trying to directly address Maddog's question to me with some opinion and some fact, and when I went to look up some of my thoughts at the time of my upgrade to the 1.7, I stumbled across the previous comparisons made between the 1098 and the 1.7 by others, that's all.

Oh I know, but this is Club Rotel. I know you used to be a Rotel owner and your experience and opinions are welcome. However, one should expect that favorable opinons made about another brand, with respect to Rotel, is likey to incite some strong feedback from existing owners.

[Adz]

Oh I know, but this is Club Rotel. I know you used to be a Rotel owner and your experience and opinions are welcome. However, one should expect that favorable opinons made about another brand, with respect to Rotel, is likey to incite some strong feedback from existing owners.

Ain't that the truth!