Is there a speaker out there for me?

[Radec]

First, this is more of a rant than a question or problem, but opinions always welcomed from other Rotel owners and fans!!! Second, I sort of wanted opinions from Rotel owners but if the powers that be wish to put this in a different forum, please do so.

I own a 1068 with a 1075/1080 for power. Currently I’ve been using Definitive technology for my mains & center and have been pleased. I have a new room to myself in my basement now and begin budgeting to replace these with something new(and hopefully better). I set a budget of about 3.5k for all 3 (maybe up to 4k with tax etc.) and began auditioning speakers about 2 weeks ago. Been making the rounds and have been sort of disappointed. I have heard a lot of really good sounding speakers (B&W, Paradigm, JMlabs, Vienna Acoustics, Monitor), but nothing that made me want to spend my money! All sounded good, but honestly not much better than what I have at home. I was really hoping to be blown away by something….kind of like when I plugged my 1080 in for the 1st time. I want to sit down and fall in love so as when I hear them in the store I don’t want to leave without them in my trunk. So far, like I said nothing.
I have a friend that is convinced that when the new Vienna Mozarts become available that those will be the ones. He says his shop will get a pair in a few months so we’ll see.
Am I expecting too much?
I’m wondering if my budget needs to be raised a bit to include some better items?

[aud19]

-Which B&W models did you listen to and with what sources?

-A few other brands to try Energy, Kef and Totem.

-If you increase your budget you can look at some different options. Are you upgrading your system to better reproduce music, is music the priority in other words?

One reason you could be less than impressed is that most DefTech's have powered subs and you could be missing the low end your used to on the other speakers. Perhaps try listening to them properly crossed over with a sub as well?

[TunerX]

LINN would be my choice but price would be higher like maybe 5k and up
and everyone has different taste, likes,preferences,hunches,insider infos, whatever
have a nice time listening to them before buying... with a pocket full of cd's

and then its what is going to sell you on speakers? a movie experince a classical rendition? perhaps a hard rockin Who experience.. I tell you they all have a place

gl

[gd]

Just keep auditioning... add Totem, Dali, Joseph Audio, Vandersteen, NHT to your already-good list... it might be that your DefTechs are ideal for your room and tastes, who knows?

But at least you're looking at the one component -- loudspeaker -- that makes the most difference in any system.

If nothing else, it's a fun and informative part of the hobby to experience those differences.

Maybe a new sub?

[Radec]

Wow nice responses.
To answer a few questions...no my deftech's are actually one of their 1st models the BP20, which have no built in sub.

Funny about my listening habits. My first response to the HT/Music question is "oh about 50/50". I was telling a friend of mine about my auditions and he reminded me I have 2 kids, so my time of getting to sit down and listen to music is extremly limited. I'd have to say 80%+ now has to be HT.

I'll just have to listen some more. I'll look up gd's reccomendations and see if we have any dealers. I won't buy anything without hearing it first. I really want to listen and decide for myself so the online dealer/no colorado dealer lists will be excluded.

My auditioning consists of a CD I put together with 18 tracks. I listened to it before I went out in my room to give me some type of reference. I also try and get the dealers to use components/amps somewhat similar to mine in power/performance.
I guess I'll just have to keep auditioning. I'm not in a huge hurry.

[Nick M]

Deftechs use rear-firing drivers in addition to front firing I believe (please correct me). This creates a diffused enveloping sound that pure front-firing speakers simply don't create. You said you liked alot of speakers from alot of brands that sound very different from one another. Are you looking for a price/performance value that tempts you to drop coinage or are you really searching for a no-cost object high-zuit speaker setup?

While everyones tastes are different, I prefer neutral speakers that if leaning anywhere they lean sharp rather than warm. Paradigm Studio 20's are a good example. I went with Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s which have a phenomenal price/performance ratio at $800 for 5 monitors (no stands). Price no object, I like Paradigm Signature monitors like the S2 or Thiel products like the CS2.4.

If you like the buttery sound of B&Ws I've heard that Rocket Signature speakers offer a similar sound with less wallet impact.

If you really like that diffused sound, I think Mirage would be a company to check out or possibly some of those panel speakers.

[RobP]

Hey Radec, How are the recordings that you are using for audtioning your different speakers? When I got my Rotel/B&W system setup I noticed that some of my music that I like to listen to didnt sound so great, it wasnt the speakers it was the recordings. That seems to be a double edge sword sometimes when you get into the upper end equipment. I did however find that the Wilson Audio Sophias and Watt Puppys played all kinds of recordings well but were a little out of my budget.
What was it about the other speakers that you didnt like compared to your current setup?
You may also want to take a listen to Thiels,Wilson Audio(may be over budget)and Vienna Acoustics.

[Radec]

Nicolas, Yes the Deftechs are a Bipolar speaker as you say, which yes really fills the room.
As far as the speakers I auditioned that I found nice, yea they all had a different sound, some parts I liked and some I didn't. The paradigms for example the S4's they had great control at higher frequencies and very tight base, so my jazz/contemporary selections sounded great. The Studio 100's on the other hand didn't have the mid/high control but the stronger lower frequencies made some rock selections sound pretty nice. I could also see HT sounding better with some scifi movies etc in a HT setup with the 100's. If I was to go out and build a system from scratch, I'd have no problem with either of these and I'd be happy. My issue is I don't want Different, I want BETTER!!! I want my next 4k to be a true "upgrade". I want to say, yes this was $$$$ well spent. This I know is only something I'm going to be able to decide, and I guess I"ll just have to keep looking.

[Andrew Pratt]

Radec the suggestons above are all great....but you have a trump card that most of us here simply don't have...and that's your location. If you happen to venture over to the DIY area of the forum you'll see that one of the mod's lives in Denver and if you really want to make that money go the extra mile give Thomas a call. I'd venture to say that he'll have something that will make your jaw drop and will easily fit in your budget. Ask about the M8a version's etc. What ever you do though DO NOT listen to his big ribbon's...don't say I didn't warn you

[TunerX]

I just noticed one thing where you said "My auditioning consists of a CD I put together with 18 tracks"

I'm gonna have to say this is not great idea as HDCD flags will be omitted,
bit accurate recording ? db adjusted by some software? DC Offsett Increased or fiddled with? Take your time and take the Originals.

[Nick M]

Of course every listener prefers different speakers, but it sounds like you enjoyed the Signature S4s. Personally I love the S2 monitors, 5 of which would be around US$4.5-5k with stands (more if you need a horizontal center). Depending on your room volume, this paired with two really nice subs (and a pEQ) could get you just about near-perfect neutrality for about $7-$8k. It's my "realistic" dream setup. Unrealistic would see Thiel products such as PCM monitors and smart-subs.

Totally depends on your taste though.

[Dmantis]

In my opnion,

there is a certain magic that happens when you mate Dynaudio Audience series speakers with Rotel. Very god suggestions above.

I never heard Vienna Acoustics with Rotel, that would be very intresting. They made incredibly nice well built speakers.

Good luck and take your time, it will happen. When you sit down and listen, you'll know which ones are right.

Dan

[n3philim]

Among the speakers I've fallen in love with ....
Dynaudio Contours 1.8 mk II
Energy Veritas 2.2
and most recently ... Von Schweikert Audio VR4jr

[aud19]

Another brand I don't remember if it was mentioned... Revel

[rhoffman000]

I'd second the Joseph Audio suggestion. The RM25si mk2 was my choice after listening to several of the speakers that you've already heard.

[ds22030]

I would put Totem Staffs, Paradigms (Signature?) and PolkAudio LSi series in the short list.....all sound heavenly with proper equipment.....

[ajpoe]

Another speaker I haven't seen mentioned, which kinda surprises me, is Klipsch. There are a lot of people that swear by their Rotel/Klipsch combos. With those horn tweeters, they have a unique sound that you may really like. I personally have Paradigm, but just another suggestion for you to at least check out. Who gets sick of auditioning to new speakers anyway? :B

[chrispy35]

I just noticed one thing where you said "My auditioning consists of a CD I put together with 18 tracks"

I'm gonna have to say this is not great idea as HDCD flags will be omitted,
bit accurate recording ? db adjusted by some software? DC Offsett Increased or fiddled with? Take your time and take the Originals.

Not necessarily true about the HDCD flags (I won't claim it's false either though), every copy I've made of an HDCD has worked properly in HDCD capable players. HDCD information is completely contained within the PCM words (using the LSB of the word), why would copying software omit this unless intentionally done?

[TunerX]

Yes your right just a thought of keeping orig music in the testing.
If done with EAC properly you can get a very close reproduction... depending on disc cleanliness. But I would still drag a handful of originals along.

[spiffnme]

My recent favs...

Axiom M60ti (very similar sound to the B&W 703 at a fraction of the price)
Energy Veritas 2.2 (PERFECT for a 2 channel audio only setup)

[Nick M]

Axiom M60ti (very similar sound to the B&W 703 at a fraction of the price)

I'm not quite so sure about that one... :B

[Christian M]

Salk Sound... Could be worth looking into. I've heard very good/positive reviews about his speakers.

[thyname]

Yes Christian, I got my axiom M60s a week ago and they are getting better and better each day, and for only $900 (no tax, free 2nd day fedex shipping from canada). I still have 3 more weeks to audition them, but 80% I'll keep them. Difficult to find such quality speakers for such a price. Probably not as good as Paradigm 100 but... (check their price).

A website to consider: axiomaudio.com

[Christian M]

thyname - you must be referring to spiffnme and Nick...

[JazzGuyy]

I would suggest a listen to Von Scweikert 4jrs. They are about $1000 above your budget but they blew me away.

[Radec]

I've been looking at websites of some of the names mentioned here, so I have a few more trips ahead of me. Thanks Guys! :T
I have read a few threads applauding the axiom's, but for me personally I want to audition what I'm going to buy. This means unless I find someone in CO with a pair, I'm not going to "gamble". I'm in no real hurry. Last night I popped in the same music I took with me just to relax a bit. Guys, it sounded great! I love some of the 1068's music modes.
I'm sure I'll buy something sooner or later, but why settle? I will post on what my impressions are from time to time, and of course if I find something.

[thyname]

thyname - you must be referring to spiffnme and Nick...

Yes, that's right. Sorry!!

[thyname]

I have read a few threads applauding the axiom's, but for me personally I want to audition what I'm going to buy. This means unless I find someone in CO with a pair, I'm not going to "gamble". .

Hey Radec, I auditioned Axiom M60s before purchasing them. There are a few guys all over USA (three in CO) that welcome auditions. Click below:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=first&Number=76567&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

Plus, this 30 day money back they have, works like a 30 day auditioning at your home with your own gear. The only thing you loose is shipping cost when you turn them back. They have a depot in NYC and should not cost much via UPS or Fedex Ground.

[voxy]

I've been looking at websites of some of the names mentioned here, so I have a few more trips ahead of me. Thanks Guys! :T
I have read a few threads applauding the axiom's, but for me personally I want to audition what I'm going to buy. This means unless I find someone in CO with a pair, I'm not going to "gamble". I'm in no real hurry. Last night I popped in the same music I took with me just to relax a bit. Guys, it sounded great! I love some of the 1068's music modes.
I'm sure I'll buy something sooner or later, but why settle? I will post on what my impressions are from time to time, and of course if I find something.

Wait a while for these to arrive



Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus




Sonus Faber Concerto Domus

[audiofan]

Another owner of Axiom M60 here.. it's great speaker for its price. I also listened to Aperion Tower PT which is smooth and natural. In some way, i like Aperion more than Axiom in term of 2-channel music. One problem , though, Aperion PT has built-in power subwoofer (8'') which is good, but you will need an outlet nearby. I think Aperion has a new full range speaker coming up next month without power subwoofer.

[lcajiga]

Radec, another alternative, if you have liked the Def Tech sound, is to actually audition the new bigger towers from them. I have the BP7001SC and they are a blast with the matching C/L/R 3000. They have a punchy sound that match excellent with my Rotel gear. Have you auditioned them? I think they are in your budfget range and may find what you are looking for. Like you, I auditioned several brands mentioned here like Linn, B&W, Paradign, etc. and I'm a 50/50 like you. Try and let us know.

[PiDD]

Andrew was right .. your location is an advantage. I picked up some 750's from these guys.

Have you heard of them?

Since then they have put out some higher end lines as well. You are close enough to have a listen.

They have a great speaker ... but what is really impressive is their customer sat .. un-#$%^ing believable! You cant go wrong with them.

[RickF]

Another happy Axiom owner here, I have a pair of M80ti's driven by an RB-1080 and a RC 1070. This combination sounds very good to me.

I also have a pair of M60ti's for mains on my HT system connected to an H/K 635, which sound just fine to me also.

Axiom is one of those 'best bang for the buck' speaker as far as I am concerned.

[TMHobbies]

You might want to look at Martin Logans. Very nice sounding speaker system

[Jamil]

Radec,

If you can, do audition the Dynaudio Audience series. I did and purchased them with the same exact Rotel gear that you have.

--
Nasser

P.S. I spent about 6 months auditioning different speakers before going with the Dyns. No plans of upgrading any time soon

[calgaryguy]

I personally own a pair of B&W CM2's (Concept 90 series) from about 15 years ago, and I still like them a great deal. When I decide to upgrade my speakers, these speakers will become my rear surrounds. In my years of auditioning speakers since purchasing the B&W's, the only pair that has really dazzled me were the Verity Taminos; the Verity Taminos are the "entry level" speaker from this Canadian company....and at $7000 cdn, you have to really know what to listen for to invest that kind of money for such a small speaker. Regardless, I thought they were amazing. FYI, I auditioned these speakers on a Cary tube integrated amp along with a Cary CD player.

Tony

[zac108au]

Try the Krix or Subsonic's they are great Aussie speakers

[Parsonsk]

This is kind of weird.
I see lots of posts here and only a few mentions of B&W's??? I've seen in the past that people are all to eager to get on the B&W bandwagon and go for a ride. Now don't get me wrong i love the B&W's and i'm just waiting to buy my 703's but when i've seen such a huge following for a certain speaker i'd expect to see that reflected here.....am i wrong?

Where does B&W fall into the above list of great speakers, are they not the same caliber?

[thyname]

I think that everybody assumes B&W are great speakers and also assumes that everybody else knows that. They are kinda "standard setting speakers", anything else has to be compared to them and their price.

[mikeyc]

I'm going thru a similar dilema, got Rotel gear and been listening to practically everything under the sun, Paradigm Ref and Sig series, B&W 700s, 800s and Nautilus, Dynaudio Audience series, PMC, Monitor Audio, Martin Logan Montage, JM Lab Electra and Chorus, PSB Image and Platinum series, Totem Forest, Def Tech, Audes, etc. All are fine speakers but nothing that made me want to grab them and haul them home in my trunk. I'm about to just buy a set of Paradigms or PSBs so I can finally end this neverending quest.

The other day I heard the Magnepan Model 12s and my GAWD what a revelation! They were so incredibly detailed, huge soundstage, imaging, transparency... it had it all. So before you go for a typical boxy sounding speaker you owe it to yourself to try these planars. The only problem is that these babies are pretty big. Thats the reason I didn't buy them, they can't fit in my tiny basement HT.

[simonb68]

Have you considered active - Genelec, ATC... ?

[RebelMan]

Where does B&W fall into the above list of great speakers, are they not the same caliber?

I would say B&W falls into all catagories.

Each brand of speaker has its own "sound signature" that some people prefer over others. I prefer the "European" sound produced by active drivers, not planars. The type of speaker you choose is also dependent on what you enjoy listening to. I prefer Smooth Jazz and my B&W's plays this very well.

There are many respectable speaker manufacturers out there. B&W comes up so often because in Europe they are the dominate player. B&W's are in the same league of great speakers you refer to and some people would even argue that they exceed them. However, choosing the right speaker is a very personal decision, and one I respect.

Go visit Club B&W and you will find many satisfied Rotel/B&W owners, I being one of them. :T

[xyzsurf]

I'm fairly new to this myself and am trying to figure out what I want. I've listened to what I can around here, Sonus Faber, ML, some JMLabs, Definitive, B&W (CM, 700, 800), etc. Everything was running off excellent gear, either Rotel, Krell, or B&K, yet I was not blown away by anything until I listened to a diminutive pair of bookshelves... Dynaudio Audience 42s... Yep, Dynaudio's cheapest bookshelf. They were running off Musical Fidelity gear and were the most captivating speaker I've ever heard. They absolutely disappeared. You could hear right through them. Literally, if you were blindfolded in a room with these speakers, you would NOT be able to find them unless by shear luck. Their soundstage was unbelievable. They were very detailed and balanced. Highs, mids, and even a fair amount of lows for a tiny bookshelf. Very, VERY sweet. I listened to them for ~30 minutes at fairly high volume and no matter the material, my hand never itched to tweak anything. Completely non-fatiguing and totally involving. I wanted to sit there all day and listen.

I'm still listening to everything I can, but these speakers are going to be tought to beat. I have heard/read that Totem is very similar, with transparency, clarity, and depth, but can also that their tweeter is not quite as sweet.

Needless to say, check them out. Many people consider Dynaudio one of the best speaker manufacturers in the world. I won't make that statement because no one has listened to every speaker in the world under their ideal conditions and everyone's opinion of a speaker is subjective. But man is Dynaudio incredible.

[miner]

OK, guys & gals, don't flame me or ban me BUT I was very captivated by the Polk Audio LSi line www.polkaudio.com - particularly the LSi25. For your budget you could certainly get the entire HT package: LSi15 (fronts), LSi9 (rears) & center channel (LSiC). I was so close to buying the Lsi25 before I bought my B&W N804s. Although Polk may not rank with the previously mentioned brands it does offer a very good value in the LSi line. As always, just MHO.

[janmike]

I wonder what Proac speakers would sound like with Rotel or perhaps we are talking 2 different leagues. I listened to Proac years ago and fell in love. From what I have read, many people drive Proac speakers with tube equipment.