Buzzing sound from speakers

[Sithlord10]

Hi I currently have a buzzing sound coming from my 5 speakers which are hooked up to my Rotel 1095 amp. The sound is only coming out of the tweeters and not from the main speaker cones. I'm currently using an M&K S-5000 THX speaker setup with tara labs speaker cable and interconnects as well as a power conditioner. I have 2 other speakers for the EX channels connected to my Denon receiver and there is no buzzing sound. If any one has any suggestions on how to get rid of this problem I am open to ideas and solutions. Thanks

[Danbry39]

Hum or buzzing can emanate from a large number of things, so locating what it is is sometimes an epic journey. I’m not an electrical engineer, so hopefully others will add their input.

First of all, do you have cable TV or satellite hooked up to your HT? What about other things that share the same circuit like refrigerators or dimmer switches? How long has the problem been going on? Anything new to the circuit at about the time this happened? Have you tried moving around your cables to see if this influences the noise? If possible, see if moving your audio cables so that they are separated from the power cords. Finally, try unplugging everything, then plugging them back in individually to see if any of them introduces the hum.

Tracing this type of problem can be extremely frustrating. Hopefully this will help trace what's causing the noise.

But I still hope someone who has experienced the problem firsthand or is more knowing than I will respond to this thread.




Keith

[Sithlord10]

Thanks for the suggestions. I currently live in Australia and don't have cable tv. I suspect that it could be the power cords from the units as they are very close to the interconnects. I may be purchasing some better power cords locally and I'll see if that fixes the problem. I don't have my system running through a seperate power supply so all my other electrical appliances are all connected to the one source. The only thing that is always turned on is my fridge and thats it. If I power the rotel only the buzzing is still there so none of the other units eg. Dvd player, receiver has any effect. So it must be the cables being too close. Not sure as to why as the speaker cable and interconnects are all insulated but obviously the power cords from the rotel ,dvd player and receiver are not. I'm a big believer in better power cords and have read about many companys which sell them. I have found one guy locally that customs makes them for $100.00 each. Some others can go for as much as $495.00 here. I will keep anyone who may be interested posted as I endeavour to solve this problem.

[ht_addict]

Sithlord, I wouldn't go spending your money on a new power cord to try and remove the buzz. It doesn't work. Buy the power cord only to replace the one that comes with the amp to make sure the amp is getting all the power it needs. Do your ears have to be next to the speakers to hear the buzz? On my new 1095 this is the way it is, and since I watch movies 6ft away it doesn't affect my listening. I believe the buzz we are hearing is the toroidal transformers doing there job. With my setup if I hooked my DVD player to my pre/pro via coax the noise got worse. Connect via optical and the noise is the same as if it isn't connected at all. I've replaced my socket with a Fim 800 and still the same. The only thing I haven't tried is connecting the amp to its own line.

ht_addict

[Sithlord10]

Yes I can only hear the buzz when I put my ear next to it otherwise I can't. I just thought that it may interfere with the quality of the sound when playing movies. If it's unavoidable then I guess I'll just have to live with it. Thanks for your help guys I appreciate it.

[LEVESQUE]

Sithlord.

I was having the same problem with my RMB-1095. But I was earing the sound from 10 feet!!! I got rid of it partially with a cheater plug, and then completely got rid of it by using XLR balance input from my Anthem AVM20.

[Scarp]

Levesque, if you hear it at 10 feet then there is something else wrong also, I wouldn't just blame the lack of XLR for that.

I have to put my ears on the tweeter to hear the hiss on my equipment. When playing music or movies I don't hear it at all and when sitting at normal listening distance I don't hear it also.

XLR will only help if you have grounded electrical outlets. (I don't have grounded connections, so it won't help me).

Bigger, more expensive power cables won't help. The ones that Rotel provides by default will suffice in 99% of the systems.

I also use an APC Line-R to remove the effects of other equipment in the same electrical group from my dvd player and pre-amp.

[Andrew Pratt]

In most cases humming is due to a grouding issue that you should fix not patch as its a problem that won't just go away over night and if its showing up in your audio gear it means your whole house isn't likely grounded properly. As Keith said above the most common culprit is usually a coax cable from a satellite or cable since these must have their own seperate ground that break the incoming coax cable and reroute the ground from the cables sheild to the ground from the house's panel (or better yet directly to the water pipe) You can find these grounding blocks at many hardware stores for a couple of dollars. If at all possible DO NOT use cheater plugs..they're an eletrical hazzard and are illegal in Canada (for good reason).Find and fix the problem and you'll be rewarded with a nice quiet power amp.

I suspect that it could be the power cords from the units as they are very close to the interconnects.

This is another common source of interferance. If you do have to run the cables close to each other try to cross them at 90 degree angles to each other...i.e. have the power cords run perpendicular to the interconnects if they must cross. Doing this will eliminate the noise interferance between the two cords.

Its often a tricky issue to nail down and it could be a number of things all working against you...the fact that the fridge is on the same line worries be b/c they're a nasty source of noise in most homes...is there any way you can run a dedicated line to the gear rack?

To make sure its not another device I'd unplug all the gear from the receiver and then power it back up and plug in one device at a time and see if the noise gets worse...at least then you'll find the culprit.

[Sithlord10]

Well I guess I know what I'll be doing on the weekend. Thanks to all for your invaluable input. Unfortunalty I'm renting at the moment and can't run a seperate curcuit for my system. Looking at getting a house this time next year I hope so all that will be addressed. Has anyone had any experience with using Audioquest speaker cable? . They seem to have a great range to cater for almost any budget. I have ordered the Rotel 1098 and have been told it comes in at the end of August03. Just got the manual tonight damm what a nice piece of equipment. Thank you Rotel.

[Sithlord10]

Sorry forgot to ask. Andrew you mentioned grounding blocks what are these and what do they do?. I'm very interested.

[Andrew Pratt]

That's a grounding block. Basically you splice your coax cable near the water pipe or ground cable from the power panel and simply connect the coax to each side of the grounding block..all this does is give you a very solid connection to the coax cables sheild. Then you run a copper grounding wire from this block to the house ground or water pipe and it should remove the humming noise and also provide a better path for lightning surges then though your AV gear.

[Entice]

I have the same hum coming from all 5 channels of my setup. Interestingly, I first notciced it during DVD playback, so I assumed it was the processor (as it wasnt occuring during 2 channel audio). But then, I noticed times where it didnt occur, and then it started to occur during 2 channel audio. Traced the source, and have found that it occurs only when the TV is on at the same time (regardless of 2 or 5.1 channel playback). So, tv is being sent back and transformer being checked (under warranty). I'll let you know when I get my new TV (hopefully tomorrow).

[ht_addict]

Andrew, why does the humming noise happen in the 1095 but not in my 1066 amp? The only difference between the tro that I can tell is that the 1066 uses a 2 prong AC cord and the 1095 3-prong.

ht_addict

[Andrew Pratt]

Right when gear uses a 3 prong power cable its groud is tied to the house ground so if there's a problem there it will pick ip up...the 1066 amps with its two prong power cord don't aren't tied to the house ground. Basically that's all a "cheater" plug is since it accepts a 3 prong cord but only has two prongs on the other end. The issue is though that if your gear expects the house ground it can be dangerous to take that away unlike gear that was designed that way from the get go like your 1066 amps.

[Scarp]

levesque, I hope you do know that the 1095 isn't actually built as a balanced amp, but its basically an unbalanced amp that allows balanced connection. So its to be seen whether or not XLR helps at all for removing the noise. And hearing that at 10 feet, just means there was something else wrong.

Note that you should not mix up the "ground" hum with the bleed through noise. When you select a device and the RSP1066 hasn't picked up any signal you will hear bleed through from other analog sources. As soon as your pre-amp picks up a sound from the connected input that will be gone.

[LEVESQUE]

Scarp. Thank you for your concerns, but I know what I'm talking about. 2 electricians came by to redo all the grounding w/o results. Did exchange my RMB-1095 for another one. Satellite company came by to redo the grounding... Tried all the ground isolators on the market (even some for car audio)... Aluminium foil on all interconnect...

The only thing working, after countless hours lost on this problem was to use a cheater plug and XLR.

I know the RMB-1095 is a ''quasi-balance'' design, but call me lucky, it's working for me with my Anthem AVM20 XLR outputs to remove this awful noise.

Even with nothing plug into the RMB-1095, only the wall outlet plug-in, and the speaker wires, i have this awful noise.

I know it's a ground issue. But using a combination of a cheater plug, XLR outputs and inputs and the Anthem AVM20, I can get rid of this noise. Any of those 3 alternatives ALONE or in combination doesn't work.

Go read this and see how crazy we can become with this hobby!

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101533&highlight=levesq ue

[ht_addict]

Levesque,

To prevent yourself with a headache just in cause(god forbid) something does happen, I've heard you can take scotch tape and wrap it around the ground. This way you don't have to use the cheater plug. I tried one of the plugs myself and it didn't work. Replacing the coax with an optical to connect my dvd player to pre/pro got rid of it.

ht_addict

[LEVESQUE]

I was finally able to re-install all my equipments in my new house temporarily (until they finish the dedicated HT).

No white noise, no hum anymore... No need to use any cheater plug.

It' unbelievable how moving from one house to another makes that big difference. Pure silence in all the speakers.

I guess the lesson is that your amp cannot be quieter then your house electrical!

Just to think of all the precious time I've lost on the previous house to solve this problem...

[Scarp]

Btw... some tests have shown that Rotel amps don't sound as good on balanced as on unbalanced... why? because they are quasi balanced and balanced connections go through some special circuitry to change them. The unbalanced connections do not do that.

I still believe that other things contribute a lot more to those humming sounds and a little hum (which you can only hear when putting your ear to the tweeter) is acceptable and doesn't do any harm.

Also a good electrical system in the house helps a lot indeed. Good earthed connection. A clean earth. A clean phase connection, etc.

Levesque, did you try connecting unbalanced in your new house?

[LEVESQUE]

Scarp.

I did try both balanced and unbalanced connections in my new house and cannot hear any difference... And it's not because my sources are not revealing... Anthem AVM20 and Denon DVD-3800... But I really prefer the easy XLR connection... No death grip, easy to plug, easy to unplug...

[Scarp]

Scarp.

I did try both balanced and unbalanced connections in my new house and cannot hear any difference... And it's not because my sources are not revealing... Anthem AVM20 and Denon DVD-3800... But I really prefer the easy XLR connection... No death grip, easy to plug, easy to unplug...

Can I conclude from that, that your earlier statements that the reason you wouldn't get the 1098 because of lack of XLR is irrelevant now? Since you hear no difference anymore on your current equipment, therefor the source of your hum was related to something else and fixed now since you have a new house.
Obviously the person who now lives in your old house will have to resort to using a cheater plug and maybe try xlr to resolve his/her problems

[LEVESQUE]

Can I conclude from that, that your earlier statements that the reason you wouldn't get the 1098 because of lack of XLR is irrelevant now?

Not at all! I was answering this comment:

some tests have shown that Rotel amps don't sound as good on balanced as on unbalanced... why? because they are quasi balanced and balanced connections go through some special circuitry to change them. The unbalanced connections do not do that.

For me, there is no difference in sound between the 2 configurations. Same sound. I think Rotel did a great job on the quasi-balanced configuration. That's it.

And I'm still backing my position for the absence of XLR output on the RSP-1098. I MUCH prefer the ease of use of XLR connectors, avoiding the risk of a potential "death grip" (it did happen to me once to brake a RCA connector on a pre-amp because of a death-grip...).

And I still think that the money spent on the TTF screen could have been invest in sound quality instead.

And we now know that the RSP-1098 will not be hardware upgradable. People will have to change the pre-pro completely when they will buy a new DVD or CD player with the new firewire connection?

The RSP-1098 seems to be awesome, but there is other well-known and more flexible alternatives on the market right now. The Anthem AVM20 is a good exemple: hardware upgradable (for future firewire connection), XLR connections, incredible support (they usually answer my E-Mails in less then 2 hours) and they do listen to the users (just look at the awesome firmware upgrade 2.10 that just came out).

I think the RSP-1098 is a bit late on the market. Should have came out 1 year ago to be competitive. We are just about to see firewire connections and DVI switching in new pre-pro from competitors.

[Scarp]

What I mean is, is there buzzing sound now when you connect unbalanced in your current situation? If not, then the solution was not XLR.

Thats its an easier connection is not really a big issue, a good rca connector should be firm in place also and who goes walking about behind his/her equipment?

About upgradability, even very expensive Krell's aren't upgradable. Some companies promise upgrades and don't act on them (Integra/Onkyo). Actually if you read carefully I think the rotel person is saying there can be upgrades and they are thinking about it, but it won't be as simple as the user opening the thing, get out a board and put in a new one (just as you do with your PC).

[LEVESQUE]

Thats its an easier connection is not really a big issue, a good rca connector should be firm in place also and who goes walking about behind his/her equipment?

Me. I upgrade every 3 to 6 months, and regularly bring my components to try new speakers, amp, etc. So for ME, it's an issue.

is there buzzing sound now when you connect unbalanced in your current situation? If not, then the solution was not XLR.

Again, for ME it was, in my other house, the only thing working. In the new house, it's not. Didn't new I was going to move when I first bought the RMB-1095 and Bryston 4BSST.

Some companies promise upgrades and don't act on them (Integra/Onkyo).

Anthem did it with the new 2.0 card add-on for the AVM v1.

[Scarp]

So, the reason for your hum was not the unbalanced connections, but something else that was wrong in your house.

Still there is some extra circuitry in the rotel amps for the unbalanced connections and any extra thing in between the path will usually result in less good connection, although you cannot always hear it.

Btw... I really couldn't care less for DVI switching and stuff like that. I think video connections should be made direct between the equipment and not via some other machine. Any extra connection and extra mm of cable will make it go worse. But anyway... lets not discuss the 1098 in this topic

[abqnmusa]

If you have a cable TV connection to the system I would suspect that. I had the same issue and it was the cable TV cable. Solved with a coaxial cable "ground breaker". Nocked the noise down to a very low level.