Audio dropouts on Pearl Harbor and Jurassic Park III DVD's

[Razvan]

Does anyone know if a fix has been found for this bug? Is is affecting all of the RDC-7 units or just some? I also wonder if the RDC-7's that are manufactured now are bug-free or not...

Razvan

[jakermc]

I just popped in Pearl Harbor the other day and experienced the first drop outs I have ever had on my system. I only had problems with the Dolby Digital track, DTS worked fine.

I assumed is was a problem with my DVD player, but you are saying that this is known defect in the RDC-7? Have any other processors experienced the same problem with these two particular discs? Does anyone know what exactly is causing the problem other than the generic answer of "the DVD authoring code is very complex and is isn't always followed to spec during the production process"?

[Burke Strickland]

This is a known problem with all Dolby Digital decoders in use in any Onkyo, Integra or Integra Research products. They are "working on it". For their official statement on this: http://www.integraresearch.com/articles.cfm?id=15

I am looking forward to their announcement of an actual "fix" for the Dolby Digital decoders already in use. (In the meantime, we are forced to "learn to love" DTS as the work-around.) :>) I haven't heard whether a "fix" has been devised and implemented for new units.

Burke

[Bruce]

The "audio encoding software" problem is said to be a copy protection scheme implemented by Universal in one case, improperly using the DD-EX flag area for copy protection software.

Shame on you Universal.

quote from Integra official website statement:
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"· Based on our exhaustive testing and after consulting with Dolby Laboratories it is our opinion that the problem is related to the audio encoding software that was used to master the DVDs in question and that the problem is ultimately a software problem. Dolby Laboratories, the movie studios in question, Integra Research, and other manufacturers are working together to prevent a similar problem from recurring"
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I'm very disturbed by this and Universal's CD copy protection schemes that have been announced lately.

So disturbed, I have stopped buying anything with a Universal connection.

Bruce




Bruce
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[Razvan]

This problem was reported for the first time a few weeks ago on several forums. All of the Onkyo, Integra, and Integra Research receivers/preamps released during the past two years or so have this bug. The Outlaw 1050 receiver is also affected as well as some Denon and Kenwood receivers. The Outlaw 950 preamp was delayed because it had the bug too. Outlaw will release the 950 once a fix is found. Many other receivers/preamps don't have any problems with the PH or JPIII DVD's.

Onkyo needs to come up with a fix. What if future DVD's will be encoded with the same copy protection code? Are we supposed to choose DTS all the time? That's ridiculous. Also take into consideration the fact that in Europe most DVD's are released in Dolby Digital only. I bet that there are many European Onkyo owners out there who aren't very happy about this.

Razvan

[Burke Strickland]

Dolby Labs has an article about this issue in their new "Knowledge Base" titled "Problem with the Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack on certain new DVDs at:

http://dolby.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/dolby.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=r7oYrR4g&p_lva=&p_faqid=129&p_cr eated=1008952532&p_sp=cF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250 PTU5JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=

They say:

Thus far, Dolby, in cooperation with its customers and partners, has traced the issue to consumer equipment that misinterprets information found on some recently produced DVDs and digital broadcasts.

Dolby and its partners are currently working with the content industry to disable the new features in these movies and broadcasts that trigger these problems. In conjunction with this effort, we are working with the manufacturers of the affected products to identify potential consumer solutions.

Reading between the lines, what Dolby is NOT saying, although it is probably true, is that the studios in question 1) added "features" to the Dolby data stream without participation by, or consulation with, Dolby Labs and 2) in doing so the violated their license agreement with Dolby Labs. Thus their "request" that the " new features" be disabled.

Meanwhile, manufacturers using decoders that were designed to interpret the legitimate, un-"doctored" Dolby data stream are at risk of having their products "misinterpret" the "cooked" data. If Dolby Labs can exert enough influence/pressure on the content providers to forestall any further releases which contain this kind of modified Dolby data stream, the urgency for a hardware fix is much diminished. (I can live with using the DTS track on just two movies. It really is pretty good on the JP3 DVD.)

However, if this drags on and a lot of software gets "out there" with the bug, then the affected hardware manufacturers will probably be forced to devise a "fix" to keep from losing business - even though they were not really at fault. Somehow, I smell lawsuits coming on before all this is over. :<(

Burke

[Razvan]

I pasted the info below from www.hometheaterspot.com:

"Dolby is very aware of the problem. I talked with Robert Dressler, Director of Technology Strategy for Dolby yesterday at CES. (By the way he reads the SPot! ) Very nice guy too. It will not be happening on further disks. From what I was able to gather, the problem came in when they added flag enhancements for 7.1 during play WHICH IS LEGALand in the spec by the way but some of the chip manufacturers designed into their chips code that if it sees a new flag it was to drop information and accept the new flag, thus causing the drop out. There are too many of these chips out there so Dolby will be adding the flags at the beginning to avoid any dropouts. So this is only going to be an issue with JPIII and Pearl Harbor. I don't know if either of those two titles will be re-released."

[Burke Strickland]

Razvan -- Thanks for pointing that out. Paul Carleton, owner of Home Theater Spot, deserves kudos for seeking out Roger Dressler at CES and getting the info that you quoted. Paul's post on HTS was at: http://www.hometheaterspot.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=71&t=000240&p=2

So whether it is a software problem (where the content providers did something they shouldn't have by adding "new features" to the data stream that messed things up) or a hardware problem (where the chip manufacturers dropped the ball on the way their chips were designed to interpret the "flags" even though such "flags" are reportedly "in the spec") -- the good news (if it pans out "as advertised") is that the problem will be limited to the two discs we already know about.

Since both "Jurassic Park III" and "Pearl Harbor" have impressive DTS soundtracks, if they are, indeed, the only two DVDs ever released with the Dolby "bug", then that is one "problem" we can live with, IMO, whether or not anything else (i.e., a decoder "fix") is ever done about it. OTOH, if for some reason a lot more discs do appear with the software "bug"/"flag" that triggers the hardware "bug", then we're back to "square one".

Burke