Halo A21 vs Rotel 1080: Initial Impressions

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  • tboooe
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2005
    • 657

    Halo A21 vs Rotel 1080: Initial Impressions

    Falling prey to upgraditis and all of the great things I have heard about Parasound I went ahead and got the P3 preamp and A21 to audtion in my home. ASIDE: if anyone wants an in home audition and your local dealer wont do it, contact Paul Brownlee at Parasound (paul@parasound.com). I contacted him Monday and by Thursday I got my demo gear.

    Let me preface this review by saying I am not a technical audiophile. I just love music, always have, so I may not have the proper vocabulary to properly describe what I am hearing. For this I apologize in advance.

    Gear:
    Speakers: B&W 805S
    Preamp: Parasound P3
    Amp: Rotel 1080 & A21
    Source: Sonos digital music server & Musical Fidelity A3.5
    Speaker cables: Nordost Blue Heaven Rev II
    Interconnects: Nordost Red Dawn RCA & XLR (from preamp to amp)
    Music: Style Council (Cafe Bleu), Tony Rich, Anita Baker, Oleta Adams, Sade, The Gap Band, Everything But the Girl, Cassandra Wilson, JAck Johnson, Black Eyed Peas

    I will spare everyone with the glowing reviews of how the A21 looks in the front. Yes, it looks great! However, I will comment that at the back it looks downright cheap compared to the Rotel. From the speaker connections to the XLR inputs, to me it felt and looked like something I would see from a Radioshack special. Another thing I noticed was just how big it is. I thought the Rotel was hefty. The Rotel looked like a little matchbook compared to the A21.

    The first thing I noticed when listening to music was how "big" the A21 made things sound (as Jerry pointed out in this thread). Where the Rotel to me sounded paper thin and 2 dimensional, the A21 made the music 3 dimensional. The soundstage was deep and tall, extending in both dimensionals more than the 1080 ever could. In addition, maybe because of the added power, but the music played with authority. Before, I thought it was because of the fact that I had bookshelf speakers that music lacked a sense of power, strength. With the A21 everything changed. My 805S sounded like they commanded the room, making the music permeate every nook and cranny, enveloping the listener. This very evident when listening to Style Council's "My Ever Changing Moods". With the 1080, Paul Weller's voice sounded weak, the music sounded thin, poorly recorded, with too much treble. The A21 changed all of this. What used to sound thin and cheap sounded precise and full with the A21.

    On to sound coloration. The A21 definitely had a warmer sound to it. I wont go so far as to say it is tubelike, but the sound I got was something along those lines. There was a warmth, a smoothness, an invitingness (is that a word) about the music. I felt like I was listening to music in a cozy little venue or small music hall. The 1080 never had this. The 1080 sounds more neutral, almost digital, sterile. Oleta Adam's and Sade's voice absolutely soared with the A21, seemingly reaching my to the top of my cathedral ceilings. With the 1080, it felt like their voices were being constrained.

    Detail. As I would expect with my 805 and Nordost cables, both amps had great detail. I heard every guitar string pluck, cymbal crash. Maybe the A21 had more detail but this could be to the fact that the music was more "powerful". Bass seemed to be handled better by the A21, a tad more controlled and tight.

    Thus far, this review was done listening to my digital music collection. Before I get killed for having mp3, let me explain. I have well over 15,000 songs in my library. Having it avaialble digitally is the only way I can ever easily have access to all of my music. Not to mention, my wife was getting very mad at the amount of space my cds took up. For critical listening I have a small stash of cds I keep ready.

    Next up is the Musical Fidelity A3.5 cd player. I will report back tomorrow.

    Initial verdict:

    The A21 is very good. Is it worth twice the 1080? Of course that depends on much value you place on your music and if the characteristics the A21 has is to your taste. For now, I am going to say yes it is worth it to me. It made my 805s do things I thought they could never do, sound bigger. I no longer think I have to get the 803D (though I still will though, dont tell the wife). And, I know that the A21 will work well if I do decide to get the 803. To me, sound experience is very important. I like feeling like I am at a venue instead of at home. It reminds me of the days when I used to go live shows regularly. It appears to me that I have the best of all worlds. Very detailed sound because of the B&Ws and Nordost cables and a warmth and power because of the A21. To be fair though, I dont think comparing the 1080 to the A21 is really apples to apples. Perhaps a more appropriat comparison would be to the RB-1090.

    It should be noted that I did not detect the same kind of low volume issues as Jerry. But we do listen to different kinds of music (I am not much a classical guy).

    ASIDE #2: The P3 with balanced outputs is great. Just adding this to my 1080 setup made a difference. More detail, more presence. I know some people will say that unless I am running miles and miles of cable, balanced inputs make no difference. Maybe they are right. But I heard a difference and there was no subconscious bias on my part because I was just borrowing the cable, I had not made any committments either way. Before this turns into a novel, I will have to review the P3 in another thread.

    Thanks for reading.
  • mitch57
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 429

    #2
    tboooe,

    Great review! Thanks for taking the time to give us your opinions on the A21. Keep us all posted on your future impressions as well.
    Mitch
    :stupidpc:

    Comment

    • RebelMan
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 3139

      #3
      tboooe, was the A21 and RB-1080 driven by the same source and pre-amp (P3) in both cases? How did you moderate volume levels for consistency in both senarios? Did you by-pass the signal or invoke bass management? I believe the Halos will only allow by-passing the signal using balanced inputs. This maybe the contibuting factor to your preferred findings.
      "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

      Comment

      • tboooe
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2005
        • 657

        #4
        rebelman, yes I used the P3 in both cases. I used the gain on the back of the a21 to get the volumes relatively close.

        The signals were sent to the P3's direct inputs so absolutely no bass management. Actually the P3 allows bypassing with either XLR or RCA inputs. Nordost Red Dawn RCA were used from the source to the P3 then Red Dawn XLRs were used from the P3 to the Rotel and A21. Both amps were seeing the same signal from the same source and cable.

        Just a note: The 1080 is a very capable amp. For the price, I would still absolutely recommend Rotel. I think only when you start coupling very high end components to the Rotel does it show its limitation. As I rapidly charge down the slippery slope of audiophile perfection, I find myself almost fanatically in search of my own personal musical nirvana, and buying more and more expensive gear.

        Only when compared to the A21 did I personally notice some of the differences. Is the A21 worth double the 1080?? For me yes, but our hobby is kinda crazy that way. We pay double, triple for incremental gains, definitely the laws of rapidly diminishing returns. I guess thats what makes it fun...trying to find our own personal musical nirvana.
        Last edited by tboooe; 12 August 2005, 03:26 Friday.

        Comment

        • Zoran
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 113

          #5
          Very nice, very informative report. Thanx, tboooe. I’d say, exactly in accordance to my expectations...

          I fully agree on your impressions about RB-1080 sound nature. Yes, capable amp, but more on the technical side, less on sonical…


          Congrats on new amp, tboooe!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Zoran, Macedonia
          Last edited by Zoran; 01 December 2008, 17:17 Monday.

          Comment

          • DrJRapp
            Super Senior Member
            • Apr 2003
            • 1204

            #6
            As I stated in my initial review in another thread, I thought the A21 would sound better with the likes of a B&W series. Those speakers are not very forward due to somewhat weak lower midrange by comparison to their tweeters. The "fat" midrange of the A21 suits them well.

            I too think the 1080 sounds paper thin with most B&W that I have listened to, which has always puzzed me since Rotel uses B&W speakers to voice their amps. Must be those darn "Brits" preference for more neutral sound. The A21, A51, and JC-1 all are voiced to have somewhat fat midranges, you can see this clearly in most test reports where they run frequency curves. This will tend to liven up a bright and dry speaker such as the B&W 800 series.

            From what I can gather from various test reports, using the balanced inputs overcomes the low volume clarity issues of the A21. Unfortunatly, I'll need to wait awhile till I have a processor with XLR outputs.
            Last edited by DrJRapp; 12 August 2005, 18:20 Friday.
            Jerry Rappaport

            Comment

            • RebelMan
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Mar 2005
              • 3139

              #7
              Rotel has a long and distinguished record of producing very musical amps, not technical (as in mechanical) and not analytical (as in unpleasantly revealing). Every "professional" review that I have come across has arguably stated this to some degree. To truly know what a musical amp should sound like one must know what a non-musical amp sounds like and Rotel is clearly not this. Granted, the RB-1080 is a little thin on low volumes but far from it under normal listening conditions.

              Statements of B&W's lack of forwardness and weak lower midrange surprises me coming from you Jerry. B&W's are used to monitor "classical" recordings more than any other speaker in the world! As much as I respect your opinion, there is something to be said about the opinions of others. When they are the majority there must be a reason. That reason is they simply deliver the music the way it was intend to be, clear (transparent), accurate (precise) and unadulterated (uncolored) presence (the sense that the instrument or voice is actually in the room).

              If by forward you mean "loud" then sure the B&W's are not this but if by fat you mean "full" then yes the B&W's are this. I think it would surprise you to learn just how many competing manufacturers use B&W speakers (namely the 801) to test their gear, not just Rotel and definitely not just the Brits!
              "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

              Comment

              • DrJRapp
                Super Senior Member
                • Apr 2003
                • 1204

                #8
                My statement about B&W's lack of forwardness and weak lower midrange is well known characteristic and is not inconsistent with their use as classical monitors. Classical music, by it's very nature of having a huge orchestra (usually 90-127 pieces), requires a more laid back delivery system to maintain it's sense of instrument placement. However I do believe that that your tidbit of data is just some more of the B&W marketing hype that you often quote as gospel. The most widely used classical monitor is actually JBL. James, please, before you take this debate any further, rememeber this is a Halo thread in a Halo club where memebers use many types of speakers besides your favorite brand, If you want to advocate and promote B&W and turn a thread into a place to regurgitate B&W's advertising, then B&W has it's own clubhouse. I know it was I who mentioned B&W first but only in context with how well they could pair with the Halo, and why.

                With classical music, except perhaps chamber music, one does not seek the sense that the instrument or voice is actually projected into the room, but comeing from it's rightful position on the stage. In jazz, Rock, R&R, R&B, Rap, Hip Hop etc the music mostly features solo performers and perhaps one would benefit having the performer in ones lap. Having the performers in the room rather than on a stage my be involving but with some music it's just plain unatural. With my speakers, which tend to be a bit forward to start , add the forwardness of the A21 and everything gets a bit too over the top with some music.

                One area we can agree. I am finding out on a day by day basis why Rotel is considered the electronics of choice if one's leanings are towards music, and why the laid back (thin if you choose) sound signature mates better with my forward sounding Klipsch, in my very lively room, than the Halo does.
                Last edited by DrJRapp; 13 August 2005, 10:20 Saturday.
                Jerry Rappaport

                Comment

                • Zoran
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2005
                  • 113

                  #9
                  Hey, you out there...

                  Proposal: could anyone initiate another Specialty club over here on htguide? Called “RB-1080 - Halo A21 upgraders” or alike...

                  Jerry Rappaport, confirmed celebrity in this issue, as moderator, tboooe, and mitch57 as favored members...


                  Zoran, Macedonia
                  Last edited by Zoran; 01 December 2008, 17:13 Monday.

                  Comment

                  • DrJRapp
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 1204

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Zoran
                    Hey, you out there...


                    Jerry Rappaport, confirmed celebrity in this issue, as moderator, tboooe, mitch57 and I as favored members...


                    Zoran, Macedonia
                    LOL......believe me, I don't enjoy the so called "celebrity" status...way too much pressure. Also, I know that no matter which I choose and for whatever reasons, it's going to piss someone off.
                    Jerry Rappaport

                    Comment

                    • NMyTree
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2004
                      • 520

                      #11
                      Originally posted by DrJRapp
                      Also, I know that no matter which I choose and for whatever reasons, it's going to piss someone off.
                      Nah, it shouldn't piss anyone off. If it does, than someone is taking this stuff way too serious. You can't take this stuff to heart. The very nature of this hobby dictates that different combinations of components, different speakers and different room dimensions and acoustics; will yield different results for just about anyone. These discussions are good for learning and getting people's views and experiences with gear and this hobby in general.

                      I can't tell you how many times I've had people verbally trash by Wharfedale Opus 2. Even a few dealers who sell competing loudspeakers, have tried to convince me my Opus 2 suck.

                      Most of the time these people have never even heard the Opus 2, or they spent 5 minutes (if even that much) listening to a poorly setup system featuring the Opus 2. I assure you, living with them is nothing but a wonderful and pleasurable, musical experience for me. I can listen for hours on end, and since I work from home, I often do. Opinions....are opinions. There's too many variables involved in any system.

                      I read your intial review of the Halo A21 in the other thread and I spent some time objectively listening for some of the things you mentioned.

                      For the life of me, I can't find the issues you're having with my system. At low volumes I can still hear some good detail, both inner and outer. Of course if I turn the volume just about all the way off, only one click from completely off; yeah, I can barely hear anything :B

                      Otherwise, low levels are acceptable in my system. When listening at normal listening levles, I get a wonderful amount of detail in all capacities. The musicality is wonderful, it's smooth and pleasure to listen to.

                      On Larry Carltons "Smiles and Smiles to Go" which I love to use as reference for auditioning and testing (and moreso just listening for the love of the music), the timbre...tonality is so rich and ....dare I say......organic. There's quite a few things going on through out that song, and I can hear every instrument with wonderful, rich detail. The bass in that song sounds so cool and so tight and so rich.

                      What matters is, what please your ears. Not what pleases our ears. Whatever choice you make, I'm sure it will be the one that sounds best ....to you. That's all that matters.

                      I am enjoying your reviews and your insight....thanks!
                      Tony

                      Comment

                      • mitch57
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 429

                        #12
                        Originally posted by NMyTree
                        Nah, it shouldn't piss anyone off. If it does, than someone is taking this stuff way too serious. You can't take this stuff to heart. The very nature of this hobby dictates that different combinations of components, different speakers and different room dimensions and acoustics; will yield different results for just about anyone. These discussions are good for learning and getting people's views and experiences with gear and this hobby in general.

                        I can't tell you how many times I've had people verbally trash by Wharfedale Opus 2. Even a few dealers who sell competing loudspeakers, have tried to convince me my Opus 2 suck.

                        Most of the time these people have never even heard the Opus 2, or they spent 5 minutes (if even that much) listening to a poorly setup system featuring the Opus 2. I assure you, living with them is nothing but a wonderful and pleasurable, musical experience for me. I can listen for hours on end, and since I work from home, I often do. Opinions....are opinions. There's too many variables involved in any system.

                        I read your intial review of the Halo A21 in the other thread and I spent some time objectively listening for some of the things you mentioned.

                        For the life of me, I can't find the issues you're having with my system. At low volumes I can still hear some good detail, both inner and outer. Of course if I turn the volume just about all the way off, only one click from completely off; yeah, I can barely hear anything :B

                        Otherwise, low levels are acceptable in my system. When listening at normal listening levles, I get a wonderful amount of detail in all capacities. The musicality is wonderful, it's smooth and pleasure to listen to.

                        On Larry Carltons "Smiles and Smiles to Go" which I love to use as reference for auditioning and testing (and moreso just listening for the love of the music), the timbre...tonality is so rich and ....dare I say......organic. There's quite a few things going on through out that song, and I can hear every instrument with wonderful, rich detail. The bass in that song sounds so cool and so tight and so rich.

                        What matters is, what please your ears. Not what pleases our ears. Whatever choice you make, I'm sure it will be the one that sounds best ....to you. That's all that matters.

                        I am enjoying your reviews and your insight....thanks!
                        Well put NMyTree. :T I would like to point one thing out though. Just so everyone knows, I can't really speak from experience on the RB 1080 to A21 switch (notice I didn't say upgrade). I personally moved from the RMB-1095 to the Halo A51. While the A21 and A51 are similar there are differences.

                        That might be an interesting comparrison. Anyone ever AB the Halo A21 and A51? Of course you would need to do it with 2 channel recordings only to get a true comparrison. I guess you could compare 3 A21s to an A51 but that really wouldn't be a fair comparrison now would it.

                        Just a thought.
                        Mitch
                        :stupidpc:

                        Comment

                        • tboooe
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 657

                          #13
                          What I think is so great about our hobby/addiction is all of the variables that must be taken into account when configuring a system, the least of which are our own subjectivity, preferences, biases, prejudices. Since no one will have the same set of variables, we are able to cusomize our audio setup to suit our needs and preferences and budgets, etc. What this means is that my setup is tailored to me and may not work with other people. There is no universal truth about what components are the best. Thats what i love about this hobby. I know that there are very few people if any will have my same combination of components, cables, speaker placement, etc. Whats best is what works for me.

                          When a friend or someone else says that have a Krell, Classe, et al amp that sounds great and better than my setup I dont offended. Actually I get excited. I love hearing, learning, and trying about new technologies. This is part of the pursuit of muscial nirvana. In no way do I believe what I have is the best. I am open to try new things. If my friends setup is better, great. I have something else to try. If I still think my setup is better I dont criticize for his choices. It just works for his unique setup and enviornment and not mine.

                          Regarding the Rotel hardware. YEs it is very competent. No one is disagreeing there. But when you read those reviews you will also see phrases such as "bang for the buck", "best performance for the price". What that means is that in no way is the Rotel the best (if there is such a thing). IIt give great performance for its price point. It is not unreasonable then to believe that an amp that cost twice as much (as the A21 does) should have "better" performance (of course better is subjective).

                          So...for me anyway, I really enjoy reading other people's opinions and love learning from the kind folks on this board. Maybe someday I will be able to reach musical nirvana, lets hope my wallet can keep up.

                          Comment

                          • RebelMan
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 3139

                            #14
                            Originally posted by DrJRapp
                            My statement about B&W's lack of forwardness and weak lower midrange is well known characteristic and is not inconsistent with their use as classical monitors. Classical music, by it's very nature of having a huge orchestra (usually 90-127 pieces), requires a more laid back delivery system to maintain it's sense of instrument placement. However I do believe that that your tidbit of data is just some more of the B&W marketing hype that you often quote as gospel. The most widely used classical monitor is actually JBL.
                            B&W speakers are "less" forward than some speakers, like your Klipsch, but they do not lack forwardness. A lack of forwardness implies a lack of capablilty. A lack of producing a three-dimensional sound stage. Some degree of forwardness is desired. How do you define "weak lower midrage"? B&W's midrange prowess has been its signature statement.

                            If you can demonstrate that what I stated about B&W speakers to be unfounded by directing me to your more credible and well documented sources then I will stand corrected. Until then what I stated remains as you put it "Gospel".


                            James, please, before you take this debate any further, rememeber this is a Halo thread in a Halo club where memebers use many types of speakers besides your favorite brand, If you want to advocate and promote B&W and turn a thread into a place to regurgitate B&W's advertising, then B&W has it's own clubhouse. I know it was I who mentioned B&W first but only in context with how well they could pair with the Halo, and why.
                            Agreed, but my statements weren't intended that way. Your evaluation of the Halo A21 neccessitates comparisons with other equipment in order to formulate an objective opinion. Comparisons thus far have been with Rotel and B&W. You had the opportunity to state "I too think the 1080 sounds paper thin with most B&W that I have listened to, which has always puzzed me since Rotel uses B&W speakers to voice their amps..." and I had the opportunity to state the opposite.


                            With classical music, except perhaps chamber music, one does not seek the sense that the instrument or voice is actually projected into the room, but comeing from it's rightful position on the stage.
                            This statement contradicts itself. You can not have proper placement without projection. I agree that one would not want some instruments to be over emphasized and a less forward speaker can achieve this desire better.
                            "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                            Comment

                            • RebelMan
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3139

                              #15
                              I don't think anyone would disagree with you tboooe, you make some valid points. I know there is better out there and if cost were not object then I would own something other than Rotel too. Unfortunately, most of us that frequent these boards need to take price into consideration. I highly respect the Halo series just as I do many other more esoteric brands. But for the money Rotel is hard to beat. That's why you hear people say "I can't think of an amp for even twice its price that I'd prefer."
                              "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                              Comment

                              • DrJRapp
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Apr 2003
                                • 1204

                                #16
                                Originally posted by NMyTree
                                For the life of me, I can't find the issues you're having with my system. At low volumes I can still hear some good detail, both inner and outer. Of course if I turn the volume just about all the way off, only one click from completely off; yeah, I can barely hear anything :B

                                Otherwise, low levels are acceptable in my system. When listening at normal listening levles, I get a wonderful amount of detail in all capacities. The musicality is wonderful, it's smooth and pleasure to listen to.
                                I doubt that you would hear the defficiencies I hear, until you heard your system in comparison to one with richer detail. How often have you read someone's review of a new piece of gear they just got where they say: "Instruments and details appeared that were never there before". I'm sure that they too heard good detail with their existing equipment until they heard something better,

                                The A21 has gotten somewhat better over the past few days after 5 full days of warming up/buring in. Inner detail has improved to acceptable levels. The real test will come today when I switch back to the RB 1080.

                                I've already made a preliminary decision that for what this A21 cost me combined with what a an A51 would cost that the results really are not much better than the RB1080/RMB1075 to actually call it a true upgrade. Different perhaps, but better, no. So I've decided to invest a few bucks more, and perhaps I can do much better. So I will to continue to explore other options, such as Bel Canto, Halcro Logic, Earthquake and even Rotel's new 1077 which is supposed to be a winner.
                                Last edited by DrJRapp; 15 August 2005, 09:51 Monday.
                                Jerry Rappaport

                                Comment

                                • RebelMan
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Mar 2005
                                  • 3139

                                  #17
                                  Jerry if at all possible get to know Bryston. It would be a worthy upgrade and I think a strong candiate to include among your short list.
                                  "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                  Comment

                                  • Peter Nielsen
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Sep 2004
                                    • 1188

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by RebelMan
                                    Jerry if at all possible get to know Bryston. It would be a worthy upgrade and I think a strong candiate to include among your short list.
                                    IMHO, on the performance-only "bang for the buck" scale, Bryston will not score that high. With Bryston, you generally pay more to get unique quilities like exchangable black/silver front panels and the 20 year warranty that can be transferred to subsequent owners (this IS a real plus, and it has a profound effect on the second hand value). "Made in Canada" does not come cheap either...

                                    When it comes to "raw performance", I personally don't think that Bryston is any better than Rotel/Parasound. It's an alternative that offers some new possibilites though...

                                    Still, I agree. Everybody should have a *look* at Bryston...

                                    Peter

                                    Comment

                                    • tboooe
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2005
                                      • 657

                                      #19
                                      Jerry, thanks for your insights. For me its a little different. The A21 is an upgrade (unless of course I cant figure out this buzz/hiss issue I am having). It gave me the sound that I was looking for and enough of an improvement that I am willing to pay the $2000 for it. More importantly, I feel that this is amp I can stay with when I upgrade to the B&W 803S soon. I know there will always be something better out there but at this point it is the law of rapidly diminishing returns. For now, I have reached my spending limit and I am very happy with the way the a21 sounds. That is a philosophy I have regarding audio components. I only get things that I know I will be happy with even if I cannot upgrade in the future. I dont like getting things knowing that eventually I will buy something else. I would rather just wait and save more money until I can get what I want. With the rotel I just always felt that I would get something else very soon. That was my mistake for being in a hurry and not taking the time to audition components.

                                      Anyway, I look forward to your further insights on the amps. As for me, I will stick with the A21 for some time.

                                      Comment

                                      • mpeak
                                        Junior Member
                                        • Jan 2005
                                        • 26

                                        #20
                                        No, you can't compare the Parasound A21 to the Rotel RB-1090, that wouldn't be a fair compare. The Rotel RB-1090 is of dual mono design with dual transformers and 380watts per chan. The Parasound A21 is single design. The Rotel RB-1080 is of single design so that is more a fair compare with the A21. Again, different system setups will give different results, as well as personal choice of what sounds best to each.

                                        I have the Parasound A21 and P3 that I am selling now because I have the Rotel RB-1090 and Rotel RC-1090 and I much prefer the sound I get from the Rotel and my speaker setup. They both are darn good, but the Rotel gives me even better results for my setup here, and the sound stage is HUGE, more than any amp I've ever had. Rotel has the reviews listed on their website for the RB-1090 and they talk about how huge and big the soundstage is, and it's true. I love this sound I get with my speakers. It's also important to remember the speaker combo with any setup, it is important of what sound you will get.

                                        Any one want to buy my Parasound setup, please let me know. I am selling the A21 and P3 for $1400.00 for both, it's a great deal. Thanks

                                        Comment

                                        • Zoran
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Apr 2005
                                          • 113

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by mpeak
                                          No, you can't compare the Parasound A21 to the Rotel RB-1090, that wouldn't be a fair compare. The Rotel RB-1090 is of dual mono design with dual transformers and 380watts per chan. The Parasound A21 is single design. The Rotel RB-1080 is of single design so that is more a fair compare with the A21. Again, different system setups will give different results, as well as personal choice of what sounds best to each.

                                          I have the Parasound A21 and P3 that I am selling now because I have the Rotel RB-1090 and Rotel RC-1090 and I much prefer the sound I get from the Rotel and my speaker setup. They both are darn good, but the Rotel gives me even better results for my setup here, and the sound stage is HUGE, more than any amp I've ever had. Rotel has the reviews listed on their website for the RB-1090 and they talk about how huge and big the soundstage is, and it's true. I love this sound I get with my speakers. It's also important to remember the speaker combo with any setup, it is important of what sound you will get.

                                          Any one want to buy my Parasound setup, please let me know. I am selling the A21 and P3 for $1400.00 for both, it's a great deal. Thanks

                                          Mpeak
                                          What a speakers/source/cables do you have? It may be the crucial issue. BTW, doubled transformers (1,25kVA each) into the RB-1090 are truly terrifying - unlike watts - I would prefere say 250Wpc only instead of 380Wpc.

                                          Comment

                                          • mpeak
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Jan 2005
                                            • 26

                                            #22
                                            I'm using some expensive speaker and IC cables that I was originally using with my Mark Levinson 336 amp. I sold that amp about 3 months ago. Do the cables make a difference? Yes, I think they do. Still sounds very good if using regular speaker cable but the difference I hear with the cables is very pleasing in all areas. I know this is always a debate as I've gotten into before on other forums that I don't want to start getting into as I do hear a difference, as others like to argue they don't. I think I'll stay mute on the cbale subject, as I don't want to put out the energy on debating this as before on other forums. People will believe what they want to believe.

                                            The Rotel RB-1090 gets some excellent reviews and have been said by many to come very close to some of the best amps costing many times more the Rotel price, and comparing close to the likes of Krell, Mark Levinson, and the like, it's a steal compared to what I've paid for them. I'm very pleased and satisfied with the Rotel RB-1090, it's an excellent amp. I love the smoothness, very detailed, huge soundstage, very musical, very real and live sounding, and as the reviews point out, Rotel got the 1 watt right with this amp so even low volumes sound great. I've been through many amps, this one is staying, a real jewel out there for a steal of a price. I have no regrets getting this amp at all. I actually would like to try and get a second one before they stop making it as I get some of these other equipment sold.

                                            I can listen to music for hours on the Rotel RB-1090 and never even get a hint of ear fatigue. The way it involves me really into the music, I end up listening for hours at a time. My wife has been complaining I spend more time with my setup than I do her, so she's been up and down my back about that now.

                                            Comment

                                            • mpeak
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Jan 2005
                                              • 26

                                              #23
                                              Oh yes, almost forgot, I have a pair of B&W Nautilus 800 in cherry, and a pair of Klipsch RF-7 in cherry (same as Doc -DrRapp-)

                                              Neither of these are for sale. These are the two speakers I'm keeping.
                                              I've already sold the other speakers I had.

                                              Comment

                                              • Zoran
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Apr 2005
                                                • 113

                                                #24
                                                mpeak,


                                                I nurture some admiration towards the RB-1090, the same price category with the A21... I’ve been mesmerised from the first day I saw the picture - bulk, weight, two big transformers... Now, I smell the RB-1090 as the best Rotel amp ever, comparing even to famous Mitchie RB-20 (about ten years ago). Sooo many great impressions, including your one. Not to mention very positive editorial reviews. RB-1090’s worth gradually raises in my eyes, since newly-announced digital amps provides completely different approach... No big transformers, no kilograms, no heat - no big predatory dinosaurs like RB-1090. If such a big boys would leave the scene, a part of me would being gone with them.


                                                Zoran, Macedonia

                                                PS: Could you compare RB-1090 sound wise vs Mark Levinson 336? Doesn’t seem as fair comparison, due to price difference, but I am very, very curious.
                                                Last edited by Zoran; 01 December 2008, 17:10 Monday.

                                                Comment

                                                • mpeak
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Jan 2005
                                                  • 26

                                                  #25
                                                  RebelMan,

                                                  The only problem is, Bryston doesn't team up well with Klipsch. Many don't recommend the Klipsch and Bryston combo, although a tad few are known to have done it.
                                                  The Bryston will not give the slight warmness a Klipsch speaker needs. I didn't care for the Bryston with Klipsch, it becomes somewhat cold sounding and too analytical, in this aspect, the Rotel or Parasound would be better for Klipsch, as Jerry is using Klipsch RF-7 speakers.
                                                  Teamed with the right speaker, the Bryston's are nice, although there are about four others that I like better than the Bryston for my likes, but just as expensive. Bryston gives excellent support and the 25 year warranty is a big plus that make many feel very secure with their purchase.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • mpeak
                                                    Junior Member
                                                    • Jan 2005
                                                    • 26

                                                    #26
                                                    Zoran,

                                                    The Levinson is a nice amp but different, has it's own unique sound as most all other good amps. My Levinson wasn't without some problems. Had 3 failures with it, due to bad batch capacitors as I was told but it always had a kind of burning smell, especially when heating up. I was told the smell would go away once the break-in time set. Never went away and I felt I shouldn't be having these kind of problems with failure with how much the amp cost. Everything sounds great with the amp, even bad recordings sound better. It kind of candy coats things, so most every thing sounds good on it, impressive,
                                                    big, full sound, more than real life, rich and detailed. It was about 150 pounds so I always had to use a hand dolly to move it. I decided to rid myself of it before I had another failure, each time I've had to wait about 3 months to get it back.

                                                    The Rotel RB-1090 comes very close in all the important aspects but it does not candy coat things, a bad recording will sound just like the recording, as a good recording will sound just as good as it was recorded, and you get BIG, only if the recording was BIG. Overall, I have to say I prefer the Rotel RB-1090. Rotel is famous for a "balanced concept" design where it takes in all things and gives the best of that result. The Rotel RB-1090 is ever so slightly veiled compared to the ML but not anything to be concerned about because you still don't miss any of the detail, I think the pay back in this is an over-all silky smoothness that allows for very long listening periods without any ear fatigue at all. It's about 90 pounds so I can pick this up myself, not that weight was ever an issue, as I don't mind big and heavy amps.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • DrJRapp
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Apr 2003
                                                      • 1204

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by mpeak
                                                      RebelMan,

                                                      The only problem is, Bryston doesn't team up well with Klipsch. The Bryston will not give the slight warmness a Klipsch speaker needs.
                                                      That says it all right there. I have heard Bryston before with Paradigm Signature in a HT and the sound was excellent. However, I DO concur that the sound of the Bryston was dry.
                                                      Jerry Rappaport

                                                      Comment

                                                      • RebelMan
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                        • 3139

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by mpeak
                                                        The only problem is, Bryston doesn't team up well with Klipsch. Many don't recommend the Klipsch and Bryston combo, although a tad few are known to have done it.
                                                        Ahh yes, proper speaker/amplifier matching is important. I haven't heard the Bryston with Klipsch but I have with B&W and they seemed to pair nicely but then again so does Rotel. I pressumed that Bryston would work as well as Rotel with Klipsch.
                                                        "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                                        Comment

                                                        • ProStereo
                                                          Junior Member
                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                          • 22

                                                          #29
                                                          The Parasound A21 vs. Rotel RB-1080 isn't what I would consider an upgrade over either.

                                                          Both about the same league but sonically different. I tend to lean more
                                                          the Rotel way for personal taste. Both fine products, in each it's own right.

                                                          Match Book looks?? Certainly only in thy beholder eyes. I prefer the
                                                          looks of the Rotel over the Parasound. I still prefer the Parasound old tank design of yesteryear. I also don't like how Parasound Halo made the sides of the face plate plastic, made to look like aluminum. Back quality could be better.

                                                          The Rotel's design is very simular to the looks of the Krell FPB amplifiers,
                                                          which I find handsome, especial the silver/black (two-tone).

                                                          Some pre-amps give better results with the manufactures own, specifically designed hand-in-hand, so to speak. The RB-1080 doesn't dress-up the sound, leaves it to the original source as possible. Your ears just sonically prefer the Parasound sound, that's how it is in this business.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • biomedman
                                                            Junior Member
                                                            • Dec 2004
                                                            • 1

                                                            #30
                                                            Re: Halo A21 v Rotel 1080

                                                            As I am new to all of this and find all of the information useful and valuable, I am also interested in your professional and experienced opinions.

                                                            I recently upgadied my HT in a box and now have a Rotel 1075, Parasound C2, Arcam DV79, Sunfire True Sub, Amphion Argon2, Amphion Helium2, and all Signal Cable cables, IC's and power cords and am seeking more power.

                                                            I am now looking at the A21 to drive my mains but am concerned over the observation that the A21 is mid-forward. The main reason I chose the Amphions is that they are NOT forward, as I prefer a more neutral or natural speaker. Therefore, will the A21 turn my Amphions into speakers I avoided in the first place? If so, what other amps would keep my neutral tastes?

                                                            Thanks to all who reply.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Chris D
                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Dec 2000
                                                              • 16877

                                                              #31
                                                              tbooe, I'll just point something out about your statement that Rotel isn't the best because people say "best bang for the buck" about it. Well, you can really say that EVERY piece of A/V equipment out there isn't the best, except the $500,000 equipment piece out there somewhere, because there's ALWAYS something better. On the "price vs performance" scale, on the cheap end, you can pay a little bit more (another $100 maybe) for a lot more quality and performance. However, the curve becomes exponential, and soon to upgrade a mid-to-high-end piece of equipment, you need to pay a LOT (several thousand $$$) to get a small improvement. Everybody has their point on the curve that they're personally comfortable buying equipment. But I think both Rotel and Parasound BOTH give great "bang for the buck", which are assets to both brands, not a detriment.
                                                              CHRIS

                                                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                              - Pleasantville

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Chris D
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Dec 2000
                                                                • 16877

                                                                #32
                                                                Oh, and hey, biomedman, welcome to Club Parasound and the Guide! :banana: Nice equipment there. Personally, I think you would be very happy with the A21. I have a complete Klipsch setup, which are very "forward" or "bright" speakers, and if my Parasound gear pushed that even further forward, I think it would be unbearable. Quite the contrary, though, I enjoy the sound.
                                                                CHRIS

                                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                - Pleasantville

                                                                Comment

                                                                • HDBLU
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Jul 2008
                                                                  • 311

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I also think the 1080 sound very thin on my Krix Neuphonix Speakers, So the a21 is a big step up is it, I will look for a Parasound and use my 1080 for the surr speakers
                                                                  2ch Setup
                                                                  Krix Neupohonix
                                                                  Musical Fidelity M6i
                                                                  Musical Fidelity M6CDP
                                                                  Denon DCD-1510 SACD Player

                                                                  Cables I Use
                                                                  MIT

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Mike_Schmidt
                                                                    Member
                                                                    • Mar 2009
                                                                    • 48

                                                                    #34
                                                                    JC2 and A21

                                                                    So does anyone have the JC2 with the A21 thats the combo I have coming but due to late shipment I still wont see it for another week or so. Iam running a Cyrus CD 8SE with Power supply and a Rega p5 for sources.

                                                                    Any thoughts and ideas

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Chris D
                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                      • Dec 2000
                                                                      • 16877

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Well, my only thought Mike, is that I'm jealous! Would love to have a JC-2, but if I got it, I'd also feel compelled to spring for two JC-1's, and then you're talking some big, big, big money. I'm anticipating that you're going to be very happy. :banana:
                                                                      CHRIS

                                                                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                      - Pleasantville

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Mike_Schmidt
                                                                        Member
                                                                        • Mar 2009
                                                                        • 48

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Its exciting starting over again and I have a feeling this is going to be it for a while and Im content with that.
                                                                        I know I asked this before but without having XLR'S and not having them on my CD player is the true balanced chain broken and no sense putting them only on the pre and power.

                                                                        Comment

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