Phono stage? What's that??

[nicholtl]

Hey all, so I've been doing some research and getting interested in adding a turntable to my system. Lately, I've been looking at the VPI Scout with JMW 9 arm, which is usually sold as a package on several online sites like audioclassics or acousticsounds. Some of you guys might know of it from a year or so ago, since it was the talk of the town after receiving a rave review from Art Dudley and getting a Class B award from Sterophile. What it doesn't seem to come with, however, is a cartridge. A lot of people recommend the Dynavector 10x5 for this particular table. Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on good pairings with this particular table?

But my main question is this. Just as I thought I had it all figured out, someone tells me I need a "phono stage" which will take the signal generated from the cartridge, amplify it somewhat, and feed it to the preamp. I was under the impression that the turntable simply plugged into the preamp via analog RCA interconnects (of which there are special phono cables, I understand).

Could someone please shed some light on this matter? What exactly is a phono stage, and does the C2 have it, or is this a whole other component I'd need to purchase in addition to a turntable, which is in addition to a cartridge?

Suddenly this acquisition is becoming far more costly that I am willing to pay...

[Bam!]

Well the phono stage is a crucial element...if your pre amp does not have a phono input then you must get one....a good one too...the VPI scout is no slump of a table!

As for the Dynavector cartridge...I have the VX 19 VPI table....and I am replacing my Grado Platinum cartridge with this Dynavector 10X5....

Gimme a couple of days as of Monday and I will gladly tell you about the match! Compared to my Grado ofcourse...

Other that I considered was the Shure VX15....and a lot of people Rant and Rave on the Denon 103...being a pretty cheap cartridge....that sounds pretty sweet....I heard that denon cartridge fast fast.......and all I can say is I dunno!??

[HAL9000]

Hmmm,

One of the things you need is a RIAA correction, this translates the compressed record dynamics back to its full dynamic range. This function is normaly incorperated in a so called phono pre-amp.

If you use a High output. MM cardrige like the Grado, you only need the phono pre-amp. If you use a MC cardrige you actually need a pre-pre amp aswell, for reasons of the lower cardrige output voltage. You could use a step-up transformer instead, but it would degrade the sound quality.

The best sollution for a phono stage is the one that applies tubes for amplification. The first thing a Cardrige likes to see are tubes.

bye,

Hal

[Bam!]

Hmmm,

One of the things you need is a RIAA correction, this translates the compressed record dynamics back to its full dynamic range. This function is normaly incorperated in a so called phono pre-amp.

If you use a High output. MM cardrige like the Grado, you only need the phono pre-amp. If you use a MC cardrige you actually need a pre-pre amp aswell, for reasons of the lower cardrige output voltage. You could use a step-up transformer instead, but it would degrade the sound quality.

The best sollution for a phono stage is the one that applies tubes for amplification. The first thing a Cardrige likes to see are tubes.

bye,

Hal

Also very true!

Just to add on...MM= Moving Magnet.....MC Moving Coil...then in moving coil you have low output and high output......

The arm has to be able to handle these cartrisges too however....AND low ouput moving coil cartridges are on the pricey side....

[Peter Nielsen]

Phono stage = Phono Preamp. In the 80's all amps used to have it built-in. See this thread for a good one: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=10196

[john4618]

Nick – you and I have about the same system (Halo and Klipsch) and after researching for about two weeks everyone pointed me to the VPI Scout and I’m glad I listened to them – a great choice.

I bought the VPI Scout with JMW 9 arm two weeks ago and I love it. I got it from elusivedisc.com as a package deal (at a great price) which included the Dynavector 10x5, which according to almost everyone I spoke to, including the VPI tech guy, is a great match for the Scout. Also with the Scout I ordered the VPI JMW phono cable to go from preamp to C2.

I have the Parasound PPH-100 Phono Preamp (the C2 does not have phono connections so you will need a phono preamp) and after playing lots of albums (and after I burned-in the VPI for about 60 hours) I think it sounds great -- BUT, after posting on several forums I’m was told that the PPH-100 is an entry-level unit and the “weak-link” in my system, and that a higher-end preamp is a "must" if I want to get full benefit from my VPI Scout.

When I bought the PPH-100 I thought that it was just a unit that allows me to connect a turntable to my system – but what I have since learned is that a phono preamp is a critical component that can make or break your turntable and the sound it produces.

Someone on one of the forums offered to loan me (and I accepted) his higher-end preamp so I can compare the differences of a high-end preamp vs. my PPH-100. I now have his high-end preamp and will be setting it up tonight, so give me a day or two and I will post my thoughts.

[nicholtl]

Thank you for the detailed and informative reply, John. I have, in fact, begun to look at turntables slightly less expensive than the VPI Scout, per the suggestions of many friends over at the Klipsch forums. They said that as a beginner in the medium, it might be wiser for me to start off on a smaller scale, and perhaps in the future, upgrade to a nicer table such as the VPI Scout, or hell, maybe even the Linn!

So what I'm looking at now are the Music Hall MMF-5 and MMF-7. I was wondering if anybody had thoughts on these? I was also primarily looking at the Musical Fidelity X-LPS photo stage, and the Cary PH-1. Someone had told me the C2 DOES have a phono stage, but you're saying it doesn't? Would that just mean A pair of RCA's is all that's required to link the outboard phono stage (such as the aforementioned 2 units) to any analog inputs on the C2?

Does anybody have any experience or thoughts on the Music Hall turntables? They run about $600 and $1000, respectively, and they are most appealing to me because they are 1) relatively cheap for the performance, 2) recommended components in stereophile, and 3) come with both a tonearm and cartridge, thus eliminating any guesswork on my part!

[john4618]

The Music Hall MMF-5 was my first choice as it was highly recommended by most as a very good starter turntable. Then the MMF-7 was highly recommended. And then I started reading too many posts on too many forums and I then very reluctantly bit the bullet and spent the extra cash for the Scout.

Regarding the phono connections on the C2 -- I got all my Halo gear from Brent Huskins and he told me that I needed a phono preamp for my turntable so I bought the PPH-100 from him. At the time I looked on the back of my C2 and I saw no phono connections, so I’m only assuming that there are no phono connections? Brent?

[nicholtl]

Yeah, I called Parasound and they said no processor they've ever made featured a phono stage. I think I'm either going to go with the Musical Fidelity X-LPS v3, or the Cary PH-1 as a phono stage.

[john4618]

I searched but I can't find any info on the Cary PH-1 phono stage - do you have a link ?

[David Meek]

Nick, I'm the very happy owner of a Musical Fidelity X-LPS phono stage. The price isn't outrageous and it makes my vinyl sound just great. Great being, cleaner, with better definition and just an overall nicely balanced feel to the sound. I highly recommend it. Now having said that, it's always a good idea to listen before buying as when combined, the various components have unique synergies that may produce something you don't like.

FYI, I was looking at the MMF-7 and Rega P3. I wound up with a Nottingham Analog Horizon with a Rega RB250 arm and Grado Reference Sonata cartridge and again, couldn't be happier - for the price that is.

[nicholtl]

John, this is the Cary:

http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/cgi-bin/audioelectronicsupply.com/view_services.cgi?request=detail&dept_id=3&aisle_id=31&prod_num=PH-1

David, are you sure you're not "Anarchist" on the Klipsch forums? He recommended to me the exact same setup you have!

I wanted to ask you guys something additional. A friend of mine told me that my TT being only $566, it would not make sense to buy something like the Cary or Musical Fidelity phono preamps, because they themselves cost basically as much as my TT. He said I should go with a smaller phono stage from something like Creek or Project. Do you guys agree, or think I should go with Musical Fidelity or Cary?

[David Meek]

David, are you sure you're not "Anarchist" on the Klipsch forums? He recommended to me the exact same setup you have!

Last time I checked, I wasn't him. :B Any idea where he lives?

I wanted to ask you guys something additional. A friend of mine told me that my TT being only $566, it would not make sense to buy something like the Cary or Musical Fidelity phono preamps, because they themselves cost basically as much as my TT. He said I should go with a smaller phono stage from something like Creek or Project. Do you guys agree, or think I should go with Musical Fidelity or Cary?

Hmmm, the X-LPS shouldn't cost $500 or more. It should run around $300 and the newer X-LPS V3 is about $400. I still recommend the X-LPS and if you want to drop a little more, the V3 is well worth it. I'd rather have a little extra performance in a component that may never get tapped rather than need a little extra and not have it there.

As always, this is just my 2 cents....

[nicholtl]

Good advice, David. And so I just ordered one not 30 minutes ago.

[nicholtl]

Quick question...wondering if someone could tell me what the difference, sound or otherwise, there was between 33rpm and 45rpm vinyl LP's?