advise about power amp or intgrated

[nimrodasas]

hey guys i dont really undestand about that stuff that s why i'm using you guys..
i have 804 diamond and i want to get the best of them
which combination consider the best one for these speaker
i have m6i i would like to make a step up

[Audio_ElF]

I think you need to tell us how much you are willing to spend...

There's a wide range of options.

Eloise

[nimrodasas]

basicly i would like to order m6500i music fidlity which is 500 watt in 8 ohm
is it over kill for 804 diamond?
today i have m6i which is 200watt in 8 ohm

will it give me good improvment ?
for you opinion

[nimrodasas]

i would like the amp to be good for future 802 di..

[mjb]

I think 802d's come to life with around 200/250watt. The problem is their impedance can dip very low, and some 'lesser quality' amps have trouble tracking it, hence the tendency to go for more power - which is usually rated at 8 ohms. I would want to do a listening test before recommending anything bigger, but you could possibly expect more authority (bass/power) from a larger amp. Its generally a bad idea just to buy something from the spec sheet.

[Briz vegas]

Odd there is no 4ohm spec on that amp. It reads well on paper but some say MF is not the sound for B&W being a little too lacking in body, that is a preference thing however, power wise it reads as more than capable. It has a digital volume control, wonder what that men's as I doubt it's in the digital domain, maybe it's a ladder attenuator, not all are made equal I discovered. The one in my CJ CT 5 betters the one in my CJ CA 200.

804 likes Power like all B&Ws so this amp is not overkill. If you are thinking in dollar terms, my CJ was more costly, then I doubled the investment with a pre. Mind you, you need a great source to truly make all this sort of investment worthwhile.

[Nuz1]

Not the same combo by any stretch, but I used to have 703s paired with a MF A series integrated. I, for one, thought the combo was lean and a little on the harsh side. I went to a Marantz integrated which mellowed the sound more to my liking. But I have since moved on to other brands and moved the 703s to theater duty.

I'm not trying to start a war on which brand is better. But I read on other boards that many people seem to like the McIntosh / B&W combo. Others think Emotiva monoblocks perform well and are a great price. But from your post, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by changing amplifiers. Do you just want more power for more power's sake? Is the sound missing something? I'm sure if you offer a few more details, you'll have plenty of suggestions.

[SPACEMANRICK]

I have a modest 200 watt Cambridge Audio 840W amplifier and 840E premaplifier running my 802 Diamond speakers in a pretty big room with 18 foot ceilings. I think the total MSRP on all my electronics and cabling is maybe $5,000 to $6,000.

I went down to a stereo store in Vancouver last month and heard my same speakers with a full compliment of Mcintosh electronics including 2 amplifiers, preamp, cd player, and power conditioners with a special non vibration stand and very expensive cabling. I think the cost of all this assocaited equipment was around $50,000. The room had tall ceilings like my own and was approximately the same size as my room. I only had time to listen for 5 to 10 minutes, and granted it was with music I was not familiar with, but did it sound better than my system?..........I would say maybe a little better (or maybe not) but for sure it was not a huge step up in sound from my system.

When I upgraded from a Denon AV receiver to my Cambridge Audio seperate amp and preamp with my old 804S speakers I experienced much more of a difference than I heard last month with the Mcintosh electronics and again when I upgraded my speakers from 804S to 802 Diamonds I experienced much more of a difference than the difference I heard last month between $50,000 of electronics and my $5,000 of electronics. At least to my ears, the law of dminishing returns kicks in somewhere at around 200 watts and $5,000 to $10,000.

I would think that your 804 Damond speakers with 200 watts is getting pretty close to their potential already out of them.

[beden1]

I have a modest 200 watt Cambridge Audio 840W amplifier and 840E premaplifier running my 802 Diamond speakers in a pretty big room with 18 foot ceilings. I think the total MSRP on all my electronics and cabling is maybe $5,000 to $6,000.

I went down to a stereo store in Vancouver last month and heard my same speakers with a full compliment of Mcintosh electronics including 2 amplifiers, preamp, cd player, and power conditioners with a special non vibration stand and very expensive cabling. I think the cost of all this assocaited equipment was around $50,000. The room had tall ceilings like my own and was approximately the same size as my room. I only had time to listen for 5 to 10 minutes, and granted it was with music I was not familiar with, but did it sound better than my system?..........I would say maybe a little better (or maybe not) but for sure it was not a huge step up in sound from my system.

When I upgraded from a Denon AV receiver to my Cambridge Audio seperate amp and preamp with my old 804S speakers I experienced much more of a difference than I heard last month with the Mcintosh electronics and again when I upgraded my speakers from 804S to 802 Diamonds I experienced much more of a difference than the difference I heard last month between $50,000 of electronics and my $5,000 of electronics. At least to my ears, the law of dminishing returns kicks in somewhere at around 200 watts and $5,000 to $10,000.

I would think that your 804 Damond speakers with 200 watts is getting pretty close to their potential already out of them.

Listening for 5-10 minutes to music you're not familiar with is not much experience to draw a conclusion. I have heard Cambridge products and McIntosh products and I am very surprised you could not hear a difference.

[stevek]

just my 2 cents since im currently doing the amp upgrade my self,im currently running emotive upa-1's thru a nad t175hd processor.while I like the sound im always wondering if it could be better.over the last month I first brought home a krell s-275 that my dealer is trying to unload from his show room.the krell smoothed out what I feel was a harshness in treble mid area and all the little details that I could here with the emo seemed to be more coherent or clearer if that makes sense,just much more of a pleasant sound.and cymbals and high frequencies sounded more realistic.very nice for an amp that the only review I could find was not a good one.then I brought home a 2250e evolution amp and wow was that an experience,i could not believe the difference.the 2250 transformed my system.
I am only using the cm-9's so I can only imagine what these amps would do for the 802's.
my post is not to push krell but to say u can definitely make big improvements with a better amp.
the 2250e is staying and being a floor model it was much more affordable

[BWLover]

I have a modest 200 watt Cambridge Audio 840W amplifier and 840E premaplifier running my 802 Diamond speakers in a pretty big room with 18 foot ceilings. I think the total MSRP on all my electronics and cabling is maybe $5,000 to $6,000.

I went down to a stereo store in Vancouver last month and heard my same speakers with a full compliment of Mcintosh electronics including 2 amplifiers, preamp, cd player, and power conditioners with a special non vibration stand and very expensive cabling. I think the cost of all this assocaited equipment was around $50,000. The room had tall ceilings like my own and was approximately the same size as my room. I only had time to listen for 5 to 10 minutes, and granted it was with music I was not familiar with, but did it sound better than my system?..........I would say maybe a little better (or maybe not) but for sure it was not a huge step up in sound from my system.

When I upgraded from a Denon AV receiver to my Cambridge Audio seperate amp and preamp with my old 804S speakers I experienced much more of a difference than I heard last month with the Mcintosh electronics and again when I upgraded my speakers from 804S to 802 Diamonds I experienced much more of a difference than the difference I heard last month between $50,000 of electronics and my $5,000 of electronics. At least to my ears, the law of dminishing returns kicks in somewhere at around 200 watts and $5,000 to $10,000.

I would think that your 804 Damond speakers with 200 watts is getting pretty close to their potential already out of them.

You know, I completely agree! I think if you compare a $1000 system to a $10-$15k system the difference heard will be HUGE. But once you go over that $10-$15k mark, to get that same ratio of difference heard, you'd need to spend $60-$100k. So, as you said, law of diminishing returns hahaha. I kind of also look at it this way. 100% being absolute perfect audio in every way. $10-$15k will get you to let's say around 80% the way to 100%. $50k to 85-90% $150k to 95%. And then after that, you notice the super rich, paying ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money to get to 96% then even more to 97%. Those last single digit % equal insane amounts of money. So, for me, id rather be happy at 80% for $10-$15k vs the guy who got to 98% spending 2 million or something ridiculous like that. Although, if he was my friend, I would not pass up a chance to listen to it hahaha. (These numbers are just estimates and are not to be taken as fact that you will get x if you spend x$)

[SPACEMANRICK]

You know, I completely agree! I think if you compare a $1000 system to a $10-$15k system the difference heard will be HUGE. But once you go over that $10-$15k mark, to get that same ratio of difference heard, you'd need to spend $60-$100k. So, as you said, law of diminishing returns hahaha. I kind of also look at it this way. 100% being absolute perfect audio in every way. $10-$15k will get you to let's say around 80% the way to 100%. $50k to 85-90% $150k to 95%. And then after that, you notice the super rich, paying ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money to get to 96% then even more to 97%. Those last single digit % equal insane amounts of money. So, for me, id rather be happy at 80% for $10-$15k vs the guy who got to 98% spending 2 million or something ridiculous like that. Although, if he was my friend, I would not pass up a chance to listen to it hahaha. (These numbers are just estimates and are not to be taken as fact that you will get x if you spend x$)

I am not saying that the Mcintosh may not sound better than my modest Cambridge audio setup just that as you have alluded to the return on improvement in sound compared to dollars spent gets smaller and smaller the more you spend. I am also not sure how much difference it made but the Mcintosh system at the dealer was in a size similar room as my own listening room but my speakers are about 4 feet from the back wall while the dealer's speakers were maybe 2 feet from the back wall.

BWLover is it your system that I saw photos posted on here a few years ago with the speakers in the condo with the sweeping views of the city from your music room? Nice to have another forum member so close.....there seems to be a hign percent of Canadian posters on here!

[Antioch]

i would like the amp to be good for future 802 di..

HI, I am new here but thought my experience with 800 series speakers might help. I could be wrong but I would look for amps with lots of current in addition to the raw watts. Most amps don't show a current rating but if the watts increase maybe 75% from 8 ohms to 4 ohms I think that will tell you it is stoutly built. Others may correct me on that assessment of current or have a better measure, but the paucity of information on some spec sheets doesn't make it easy. I don't know anything about Music Fidelity but if they have enough current then your 200 watt existing amp should be fine. If your existing amp struggles at times then you may need more current and not necessarily more watts.

I own 803 Series Diamond and use a Bryston 4Bsst amp and BP-25 pre-amp. It is rated at 300 watts at 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 ohms. It has plenty of current so when those 800 series speakers dip down to 3 ohms the amp easily handles that. I would concur with the above poster that to make them sing you need 200 to 250 quality watts (stoutly built with plenty of current).

It was already mentioned to audition the amps and that is a really good idea and many dealers carry both new and used stock. I like used and Bryston carries a 20 year transferable warranty so I don't lose sleep buying used. I auditioned the 804 and 803 Series Diamond and used 803S & 802N, all at my house. My amp easily handled all of these speakers and I had each of these at my house for a couple of weeks so I had ample time to listen to them. My room is 32'x16' with a 15' ceiling.

For what it's worth don't be in a hurry and only add one piece of gear at a time. Listen to that new addition for at least a few months to learn what it did for you. Then research your next piece of equipment. Getting quality sound is not a race it is a journey.

Hope this helps and good listening,
Mike

[Freddie40]

HI, I am new here but thought my experience with 800 series speakers might help. I could be wrong but I would look for amps with lots of current in addition to the raw watts. Most amps don't show a current rating but if the watts increase maybe 75% from 8 ohms to 4 ohms I think that will tell you it is stoutly built. Others may correct me on that assessment of current or have a better measure, but the paucity of information on some spec sheets doesn't make it easy. I don't know anything about Music Fidelity but if they have enough current then your 200 watt existing amp should be fine. If your existing amp struggles at times then you may need more current and not necessarily more watts.

I own 803 Series Diamond and use a Bryston 4Bsst amp and BP-25 pre-amp. It is rated at 300 watts at 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 ohms. It has plenty of current so when those 800 series speakers dip down to 3 ohms the amp easily handles that. I would concur with the above poster that to make them sing you need 200 to 250 quality watts (stoutly built with plenty of current).

It was already mentioned to audition the amps and that is a really good idea and many dealers carry both new and used stock. I like used and Bryston carries a 20 year transferable warranty so I don't lose sleep buying used. I auditioned the 804 and 803 Series Diamond and used 803S & 802N, all at my house. My amp easily handled all of these speakers and I had each of these at my house for a couple of weeks so I had ample time to listen to them. My room is 32'x16' with a 15' ceiling.

For what it's worth don't be in a hurry and only add one piece of gear at a time. Listen to that new addition for at least a few months to learn what it did for you. Then research your next piece of equipment. Getting quality sound is not a race it is a journey.

Hope this helps and good listening,
Mike

Great advice Mike. I own the Bryston 4BSST2 with BR26 and 802DIs (all bought in Evanston, IL). The combination is excellent. I highly recommend the Bryston amps, maybe a minimum of 300 watts too.

[Antioch]

Great advice Mike. I own the Bryston 4BSST2 with BR26 and 802DIs (all bought in Evanston, IL). The combination is excellent. I highly recommend the Bryston amps, maybe a minimum of 300 watts too.

Great folks at that Evanston store and Simon is good people.

Mike

[Freddie40]

Great folks at that Evanston store and Simon is good people.

Mike

Have had the same salesman since 1985. Simon is the best too