Spend it all on the speakers, forget the amp

[cjm80]

a lot of people on various internet forums are of the opinion that as long as the amp has sufficient power to drive the speakers without clippingn then there are no audible differences between amps and digitsl sources....

So i should be saving up for some 802's and run em off my macbook pro and a couple of emotiva monoblocks....?

Currently have 804di's amped with a NAD T775 biamping with the rear channels. Living in an apartment but when would like to get some bigger speakers when i eventually get a house...

All opinions gratefully received...

[windshear]

I have to disagree about the amplifier idea. I also originally subscribed to the idea of enough power should be adequate and there is nothing wrong with this belief. However every item in the audio chain will have its sonic signature, especially an amplifier. They are all designed differently with different gain structures and just based on this will sound different at different volume levels. Some have more linear gain across the range , others more logarithmic. At the end of the day if you have the time and a willing dealer, nothing beats trusting your ears with different equipment in your room to verify the difference of equipment. If it sounds right to you, that is what matters.

In my case i found discernable audio differences when going from one brand of amplifier to another. My previous amp, was warm, forgiving of poor recordings and not fatiguging to listen to. My new amp certainly has a more defined bass output, appears to go lower and has clearer highs however is revealing when it comes to poor recordings. If only i could combine the sonic signature of the two.

Keep an open mind and try an do a proper comparison with equipment you are familiar with as well as audio recordings you know well. Then only change the amplier in the chain and most importantly try and match the gain for a specific volume setting of the preamp, as the psychology of the mind will play tricks on a subjective test when something appears louder, especially at the "same" level on the preamp.

[RebelMan]

a lot of people on various internet forums are of the opinion that as long as the amp has sufficient power to drive the speakers without clippingn then there are no audible differences between amps and digitsl sources....

Not across the board. In practice, transistor based amplifiers are more distinguishable from their tube based counterparts than they are from one another, but in theory they shouldn't be. The audible differences between similar amplifier families exists but are many times intangible (for one reason or another) and this leads many people to conjecture that sufficient power is the only requisite. It's not. What is true, though, is that if sufficient power is available then the audible differences between amplifiers contributes significantly less to the total quality of the sound than the differences between speakers does. The same goes for digital sources but to an even smaller degree than amplifiers.

If you are shopping for both speakers and amplification (digital sources) the general rule of thumb is to consider that the sonic fingerprint of the speakers will be several orders of magnitude greater than the amplifier(s) (digital sources) will be and should therefore be your highest consideration.

[Alaric]

I had a pile of crap amp keeping my (then new) speakers warm until my new amp arrived . This was several years ago , but the difference was dramatic. The amp I was using was REALLY bad , but the new one was still a significant improvement. Not as much as the speakers , but each better component was an audible step up.

[bigburner]

Hi cjm80,

My upgrade from B&W CDM9NT speakers to a pair of 803Ds was a huge improvement to my 2-channel system. My upgrade from a Rotel RB-1080 amp to an Emotiva XPA-2 was less of an improvement except when I turn up the volume, which is when the power of the Emotiva to drive my 803Ds is advantageous. The rest of the time the Emotiva sounds pretty similar to the Rotel.

If someone offered me a Classé CA-2300 in exchange for my Emotiva XPA-2 then I would say yes, which is odd because I've never listened to a CA-2300 and I'm very happy with my XPA-2. However I am sufficiently conditioned by this hobby to believe that an amp which costs ten times as much must be better, especially if it has the reputation that Classé has.

Having said that I'm in no hurry to offload my XPA-2 so if I were you I'd order a pair of XPA-1 monoblocks tomorrow (or today if you read this post during the daytime)!

Nigel.

[Charlieu]

Buy your house first and then revisit this topic. You'll need to know the room that you are going to put all this stuff in before you can make an intelligent decision. You may find that the 804D's will do nicely and you can blow your cash on the other components. Though moving into a new home and having spare cash are mutually exclusive.

[BassThatHz]

All I know is that when I upgraded my Yamaha to Rotel monoblocks and then added an Emotiva pre-amp and then went to my dealer and heard Classe Delta gear, each one was an improvement over the prior. The quality of the power matters more than the quantity (up to a point of course, at either extreme).
I noticed the same thing for the amplifers in my subwoofers.

I haven't heard the XPA-1, but I have a feeling that Classe, Bryston or McIntosh would be the better long-term choice; but it costs more too so surprise surprise...

That said I've never-ever seen an amp that measures better than this one on the interweb (yes including MF Titan, Halcro, CA-M600, 7B SST2, McIntosh etc etc) and for $45,000 it better darn be...

http://www.stereophile.com/content/soulution-710-power-amplifier-measurements

My jaw dropped when I saw the output graphs.
WOW :jawdrop:

I'll take 8 of these with my snails please :lol:

[Briz vegas]

Not across the board. In practice, transistor based amplifiers are more distinguishable from their tube based counterparts than they are from one another, but in theory they shouldn't be. The audible differences between similar amplifier families exists but are many times intangible (for one reason or another) and this leads many people to conjecture that sufficient power is the only requisite. It's not. What is true, though, is that if sufficient power is available then the audible differences between amplifiers contributes significantly less to the total quality of the sound than the differences between speakers does. The same goes for digital sources but to an even smaller degree than amplifiers.

If you are shopping for both speakers and amplification (digital sources) the general rule of thumb is to consider that the sonic fingerprint of the speakers will be several orders of magnitude greater than the amplifier(s) (digital sources) will be and should therefore be your highest consideration.

To a point. I've just done this exercise. I've dragged amps, pre-amps and very different and more expensive speakers home for auditions. Result - the preamp upgrade wins, and will be worth double the US price of my speakers. If you have 800 series B&W or similar they are good enough to benefit from some pretty high end components.

There are no rules and every component is important. trust your ears. In many cases comments like "it makes no difference" are down to poor rooms, poor setups, poor recordings, and personal bias (For example peoples idea of good bass varies wildly)