805D's and sub

[ariarec]

I am setting up a mix studio and want to use (2) 805D's with the best sub for full range mixing. I was thinking of JL- What do you guys think would be the best way to go? What do you recommend for bass management with the sub? Is it better to get 1 great sub or 2 lesser subs?

Also- any recommendation on the best amps for this. I have heard them with Mcintosh and thought they sounded great. Thanks

[htsteve]

ariarec,

First of all, welcome to the forum! :T

As to your questions, see below:

* What size is your mix studio? Dimensions? That might help answer the one great sub vs. 2 lesser sub question. I've never had a 2nd sub in a room, so I can't really speak to that. Some forum members have done this and are quite pleased.

* Will the room have acoustic treatments? I assume so, as it will be a studio.

* I have a JL Audio Fathom F112. A superb sub. The best sub I've had (it replaced a Velodyne DD18.). I would recomend one of these vs. a couple of lesser. But I am biased.

* I do bass management in an HT room with 802D's, HTM2D and 804S's. So my settings would likely be different than a sub with 805D's. However, I would think you would want to start your crossover at 100 Hz and then experiment from there.

* I understand your reaction to McIntosh amps and the 805D's. Which Mac amp was it? I have an MC402 driving the 802D's, and an MC205 driving the rest. A wonderful combination.

The best thing to do is audition the amps and subs. Your ears will decide. Even better is an in home demo. Hopefully, you have a dealer that can do that for you.


Hope this helps.

[ariarec]

Thanks for the reply:
The room will be small (bedroom size) with lots of Real Traps as treatment to deaden the room.
Do you need a separate piece to do bass management or is it just with the amp or with the sub?
Which Amp do you think would be enough to power the 2 805D's and be enough if I go 5.1 later?

Thanks.

[stuofsci02]

Thanks for the reply:
The room will be small (bedroom size) with lots of Real Traps as treatment to deaden the room.
Do you need a separate piece to do bass management or is it just with the amp or with the sub?
Which Amp do you think would be enough to power the 2 805D's and be enough if I go 5.1 later?

Thanks.

If you are sticking to strickly stereo (which is sounds like), you can do the bass management with a quality preamp (or integrated amp). You would then leave the subs crossover bypassed and you can set the crossover in the preamp section.

[htsteve]

ariarec,

My HT room is 11 X 16 feet. I would consider that to be small to medium sized room. I have just the single sub, and it works wonders in there.

I also have my HT room treated with lots of Real Traps. They do work well.

Bass management is handled in the processor. Whether that's a preamp, receiver, etc. that is where the decision on what frequencies to send to the sub is made. The better the processor, the better the management and general overall performance. What processor do you have or plan to have.

As for you amp question (good for 2 channel and also HT), the solution would be to get a powerful 5 channel amp. I would think something like the Rotel 1077 or current version (125 watts X 5) would be a good place to start. Of course you can go up from there in both power and refinement.

If you want to get a 5 channel Mac amp, then that would be the MC205 (200 wpc X 5). I drove 802D's with that, so it will definitely handle the 805D's.

Best thing to do is audition in the room, if possible.


Hope this helps.

[ariarec]

With the Mac 205- If I am not using all 5 channels can the extra power be directed to Stereo and the Sub or will I be paying more for a 5 channel that is not as good as a comparable stereo Mac?

[htsteve]

ariarec,

I'm unaware that the MC205 has specific power redirection capability in the event that only two channels are used. However, it is a McIntosh and it has an incredible amount of power (my 205 did drive 802D's for over a year). It has lots of power in any channel.

I've always found that comparable stereo amps are better and offer more performance that multi-channel amps for the speakers they drive. I did this with Rotel (1095 to 1080) and now with Mac (205 to 252 to 402). The 252 (which costs less than the 205) is definitely a very good stereo amp. Lots of current. That would be a great amp with the 805D's. The downside, of course, is that if you then want to multi-channel/HT, then you need another amp (more overall $$).

The sub has it's own amp, so the only issue there is the bass management.


Hope this helps.

[ariarec]

Thanks - what piece would you recommend for bass management for this gear?

[htsteve]

Thanks - what piece would you recommend for bass management for this gear?

The answer depends laregly on budget and whether you want to go 2 channel or HT.

Here are some ideas from Mac. These ar epre-amps. The amp would need to be bought separately.

HT Pre-amp: http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1096.asp


2 Channel: http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products...nel-preamp.asp


Rotel make very good performing, very nice bang for the buck equipment.


HT: http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ils.htm?Id=474



I'm sure there are other fine products that others have experience and will chime in.


Hope this helps.

[ariarec]

Thanks for all your help. This is what I have so far:
Speaker / Amp / Processor / Power Conditioner:


805D2GB B&W DIAMOND SERIES 2 SPEAKER 1 PR 5000.00

F112G JL AUDIO FATHOM 1500W 12" SUB 1 EA 2900.00

805/STAND B&W 805S 24" SPEAKER STANDS 1 PR 700.00

RSP1570B ROTEL HDMI 1.3A HOME THTR PROC 1 EA 2199.00

MC205 MCINTOSH 5X200W POWER AMP 1 EA 6500.00

ELITE/20PFI FURMAN 2RU POW CON ULTRA W/PFT 1 EA 1099.00

Cabling:

RSC0010IBW SW RHAPSODY INT BIWIRE SPK CBL 1 PR 625.00

SYMSUB6 STRAIGHTWIRE SUB CABLE 1 EA 95.00

SER0020 SW SERENADE 2.0M INT CABLE 1 PR 400.00

Merchandise Total: 19,518.00


Does the cabling need to be that expensive? What do you think about the choices. This would allow me to start with Stereo and move to 5.1 when needed for a TV Mixing Studio.

[htsteve]

Does the cabling need to be that expensive? What do you think about the choices. This would allow me to start with Stereo and move to 5.1 when needed for a TV Mixing Studio.

ariarec,

These are excellent choices. Definitely will allow you to have a very nice 2 channel system and HT system right out of the gate. With a package like that, you should get a nice discount from your dealer.

As for cabling, larger guage, well shielded cabling is important. The forum owner also owns Cat Cables. These are very nice performing cables at an affordable. Very good bang for the buck. Click on the link at the bottom of the page and take a look.


Hope this helps.

[stuofsci02]

If you are not going for a multichannel setup until later I would suggest at the very least in going with a stereo pre-amp for now. Processors is one area where things change quite quickly and what you buy now may not be able to do all the decoding when the time comes.

Additionally you can get very nice stereo preamp that will sound better then a processor for much less money.

Additionally, but sure to audition with other amps as well if possible. Mac is used often, but there are a lot of others out there which you might like even better.

And if you wanted to spend a lot less money you could audition some stuff by Emotiva (www.emotiva.com). They are an internet direct company that makes extremely good value products.

For instance you could get a:

XPA-2 (300 wpc x 2) - $799
UPA-1 (stereo preamp with bass management) - $399

I am not going to say it will sound quite as good as Classe, Mac, Chord etc. but it offers such good value it would be worth auditioning with their 30 day return policy. It may do exactly what you need.

I have a UPA-1 and can certainly say that it is an excellent unit for $399.. I have it matched with a Chord Amp that is 10 times more expensive and I am quite happy.

Cheers!

[Pio]

Get two subs and place them away from the corners - two subs even out the room modes. From my experience and what I know about studios - keep the subs at 1/3 or 1/5 of the length of the room.

I used and XTZ room analyzer to set mine up - if you're going to be mixing, this might be a great investment as bass is usually a nightmare to get right.

What board are you considering for your mixing?

[Horacio]

I agree with stuofsci02: if you are sticking with 2-channel, you will get better performance with a stereo preamp + amp + outboard crossover, at the same price level ($8.7k).

Check out this thread: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...ht=bryston+10B
This is a serious guy who tried F112 and 2 way speakers (Sonus Faber) and a crossover (Bryston) and had VERY good results. I think it's worthwhile reading. He has since moved out of that forum and replaced all his gear with FAR more expensive gear, but the point still holds.