Room size for 802d

[Cambs12]

Just about to (finally) upgrade my CDM9NT to either 803d,or 802d.My lounge is 21 long,by 12.5 feet wide.The speakers will play down the length of the room.From experience,does anyone think i will have probs with the 802d,bearing in mind the room is not big width wise,and would the 803d be a better choice.I love the sound of the 802d,but will not be able to audition them at home as buying used.

[Kal Rubinson]

For music/stereo, your room will be OK. If you are planning on mch/HT, then the placement of a display and center channel speaker will begin to crowd the width dimension.

[AV-OCD]

I agree with Kal. The room size is fine. However, the 802D and 803D are two very different sounding speakers, so the choice between the two depends as much on the sound quality differences as it does the size of the room.

[htsteve]

I also agree with Kal. My 802D's are in an 11 X 16 dedicated HT room.
I have done acoustic treatments. This has helped with the soundstage.
It was very good before but now it is outstanding.



Hope this helps.

[Horacio]

Cambs,

I agree with what has been said above, and want to emphasize room treatments, as Steve mentioned. How much leeway will you have treating your room? Is this a dedicated room? The lower freqs will likely be the most problematic. Are you using a sub to complement the speakers?

I also love the 802D. Can you buy used (as you mentioned), try it out, treat your room, and decide? A lot can be done around room treatments, even if they need to be concealed (like in my case) because my hi-fi is in the living room. Sound improvements are been very significant, and for little money!

Horacio

[Cambs12]

Not much leeway in room treatments,it has taken me a long time to persuade the boss that 802ds are the way to go,she would prefer a much smaller speaker!
A sub will only be used for home cinema,not music,i have a B&W ASW750 for this.

Eventually,we will be extending the house,and a listening room will be built,approx 17 by 17 or so,but not for a year or two.

What sort of treatments would help with the low frequencies?

[Horacio]

Cambs,

I share your pain! My wife thinks the 804S are too large!!!

The sort of room treatments will depend of your room. Generally speaking tube bass traps and some panel absorbers are used, but you can also use concealed traps that will make it a lot more digestible for the boss, eg heavy window treatments, diaphragmatic bass traps can be DIY, perforated panel traps can also be DIY, actually I just finished with DIY tube traps. The first thing I suggest looking into is the room dimensions and furnishings, though. How long is the "eventually" for building the extension? If you are willing to spend a fair amount of time learning, I suggest getting the Master Handbook of Acoustics by Alton Everest so you understand what's going on. I'm now awaiting the arrival of Floyd's book too. This should give you a very good idea of what you should aim for when building the house extension. A square room such as the 17 x 17 you mention is probably a bad idea (square rooms tend to have boomy bass at the width and length modal frequencies), but you can probably build a great room around those dimensions. I would love to have your "problem"

Horacio

[BassThatHz]

My room is 32x15 and I had to buy 32 cubic feet of foam for the corners and then an additional 144 square feet for the ceiling and walls.

The difference is night and day, the frequencies above 350hz is near perfect but the bass is still somewhat problematic. Absorbing low frequencies simply just isn't practical.

The 802's are better regardless of the size of the room IMO, and with room treaments it makes it even less of a factor.

Ideally you don't want the 3 room dimensions to be a harmonic multiple of other, nor of a symmetrical geometry.

[Cambs12]

Thanks for all the advice guys,my new 802d(ex-dem) have just been delivered,all i can say is...WOW!! Have only played a few tracks,but the difference is huge,and the room doesn't seem to be a problem at all.
It's taken me a long time to get these,but it has been worth the wait,and they really sing with my Musical Fidelity Trivista amp.Will be sorry to see my CDM9nts go tho,they have been great to own.

[Skyblue]

Con gratulations!!

[htsteve]

Excellent!

[Horacio]

Congrats!! Those are some very fine speakers!!

Please do yourself a favor and experiment with room treatments. As I incrementally go down this road I am getting VERY significant improvements, and the cost is low compared to upgrading electronics or cables. A real eye opener.

Enjoy the new toys!

Horacio

[Cambs12]

Thanks Horacio,i will get a copy of the book you recommended. Also,when we build the new lounge,i will watch the dimensions,avoiding a square...
I read a review of Townshend bases,which go under a speaker(the review actually used the 802d),and they found very good results,cleaning up the bass etc.Only problem is they cost 1000 GBP a set,and this would not be approved by swmbo!
I may get some marble or granite slabs and try this tho,as this worked very well for the CDM9nts i had before.Only problem with this is if it makes them less stable,as i have young children ,obviously don't want them knocked over(the little ones and the speakers!)
I may bore everyone and start a thread asking what cables do you use,but i guess this has been covered a few hundred times before

[wettou]

I also agree with Kal. My 802D's are in an 11 X 16 dedicated HT room. I have done acoustic treatments. This has helped with the soundstage. It was very good before but now it is outstanding.
Hope this helps.

Feet or meters?

[htsteve]

Feet or meters?

Feet.

[Horacio]

Cambs,

Everest's book is really good. Now, so you have correct expectations from it: it will explain very well the principles behind acoustics (so you'll have a good foundation to build on), and will explain how acoustic devices work. It will not, however, provide quick recipes for how to fix YOUR room, so don't expect that and avoid getting frustrated. This has been a sometimes frustrating, generally confusing journey for me, but one that is paying off bigtime. To me the best combination has been solid conceptual knowledge plus experimentation. Experimentation is key, AND FUN (at least to me!).

I also have young kids and was concerned with the 804S stability and had a 2.5" thick platform made of very hard and heavy native wood. The shape of the platform copies the 804S footprint but is 3" larger all around (put a large paper on the floor, put the speakers on it, drew the 804S footprint on the paper, then add 3" all the way around). Then I attached the platform to the speakers with a threaded rod in place of the original speaker feet and bolted them. Lastly I threaded holes in the platform, now on a wider platform, so the feet are about 5" further apart than the originals. This gives a lot more stability, adds mass and looks good. The sound? Can't tell! at the time I concluded it didn't change the sound, but that was before treating the room and now is too much work to take the platforms out!

Regarding questions about cables: be cautious in this forum. The sponsor is a cable manufacturer and doesn't want people discussing which one is the best, and you run the risk of getting your thread locked. Look around to get a feeling of what has been allowed. E-mail people with similar setup to yours...

Also, I suggest you give yourself time to live with the speakers before you jump into the cable-upgrading bandwagon. Your perception of what your system needs might evolve as you get used to the new sound.


enjoy the journey!
Horacio

[Horacio]

Sorry, I forgot to add:
- For some background on acoustics and treatments you could check out the RealTraps website. It's owner, Ethan Winer, also has this website which provides good primer info: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html. Again, little science to build upon, but it will get you thinking.

- Regarding vibration control (your question about platforms): look in the Stereophile website, there is an old article named "Bad Vibes!" which is the best primer I know of. No subscription needed to download. Good stuff!

Enjoy the reading!
Horacio