New B&W serie 800 !!!

[AV-OCD]

Well well well.... I can confirm that B&W 803Di/802Di/800Di uses the same crossover design and components for the Tweeter and Midrange, I would imagine that since the Diamond Series is uses a new woofer design the Woofer crossover will be slightly different.

So anyone that says the 803D/802D/800D tweeter and midrange sounds better than the previous model is lying, its the same drivers, crossover design and components.

Only difference is going to be the woofer bass output.

Reference:

http://assets.bowers-wilkins.com/med...al_ENG.pdf.pdf (Page 12)

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/downl...bw/800D-TM.pdf (Pages 9, 10, 11 12)

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/downloads/techmanuals/bw/802D-TM.pdf

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/downl...bw/803D-TM.pdf

I looked over the schematics you posted and there are differences between tweeter and crossover design in the 800D and 800 Diamond series. The new diamond tweet uses quad magnet design to focus magnetic energy into voice coil gap more effectively, and the new cross-overs use different capacitors and I believe that the crossover slopes are different.

[AV-OCD]

SoundEngine

Do yo have any clue/theory on why the new models are SO MUCH lighter than the previous?

For example the 800Di are 23 KG lighter than the previous model. What have they done?

I'm pretty sure the that the reduction in weight is due to the smaller neodymium magnets on both woofers.

[KahunaCanuck]

I was in at my local dealer and listened to the 805D on Naim equipment as well as a short stint with the 804D on McIntosh. While I did not do any direct A/B listening, I think Omar & Tim are going to be very happy. I felt the soundstage was larger and a more liquid sound than from the 805s I have now...I am even thinking about upgrading my 2.1 system myself... :B

The 805Ds were in Piano Black, the 804Ds in Cherry...both looked very good.

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm pretty sure the that the reduction in weight is due to the smaller neodymium magnets on both woofers.

All 23 kG? 8O

[aarsoe]

Well well well.... I can confirm that B&W 803Di/802Di/800Di uses the same crossover design and components for the Tweeter and Midrange, I would imagine that since the Diamond Series is uses a new woofer design the Woofer crossover will be slightly different.

So anyone that says the 803D/802D/800D tweeter and midrange sounds better than the previous model is lying, its the same drivers, crossover design and components.

Only difference is going to be the woofer bass output.

Reference:

http://assets.bowers-wilkins.com/me...nal_ENG.pdf.pdf (Page 12)

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/down.../bw/800D-TM.pdf (Pages 9, 10, 11 12)

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/down.../bw/802D-TM.pdf

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/down.../bw/803D-TM.pdf

__________________

Ehhh - the diagrams are not for the new diamond versions - but for the now discontinued "d" line. Look at the date of the drawings. So how do you come up with the conclusion that they are the same as the Diamond line?
I don't doubt they are the same layout but the components are different (Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil)..

Funny thing is that if you use the B&W service website to go back in time you will see that they have been using the same schematics for a very long time - ie the crossover points have been the same. However the sound difference between the old Matrix series, the first Nautilus and going forward from there have been huge.

[Jonzie]

I've heard the new 804Di. I own the "old" 802D and I must say that if I had to choose between this new, small floorstander and my 802D, I would seriously be in doubt about what to choose, before probably choosing the 804Di.

It has an effortlessness about it, which is difficult to put a finger on. It is more precise in general led by a much more precise and dynamic bass. I was amazed about the combination of body and punch. Even though the 804Di is not a large speaker, it definitely sounded like one. And despite that the FST midrange remains virtually unchanged from the old D versions, the new models seems to integrate the midrange differently in terms of harmony and timbre. My guess is of course the already discussed cross-over.

In short, much more precision, punch and depth in the bass and an extremely effortless performance from the treble/midrange.

It has to be said, that I didn't expect much difference from the new range compared to last generation of "Diamond" 800 speakers, so this has taken me completely by surprise. I was only going to listen to a couple of tracks and ended up getting sucked in, listening for 3.5 hours and almost being late for my own dinner-party :B

[Skyblue]

I've heard the new 804Di. I own the "old" 802D and I must say that if I had to choose between this new, small floorstander and my 802D, I would seriously be in doubt about what to choose, before probably choosing the 804Di.

It has an effortlessness about it, which is difficult to put a finger on. It is more precise in general led by a much more precise and dynamic bass. I was amazed about the combination of body and punch. Even though the 804Di is not a large speaker, it definitely sounded like one. And despite that the FST midrange remains virtually unchanged from the old D versions, the new models seems to integrate the midrange differently in terms of harmony and timbre. My guess is of course the already discussed cross-over.

In short, much more precision, punch and depth in the bass and an extremely effortless performance from the treble/midrange.

It has to be said, that I didn't expect much difference from the new range compared to last generation of "Diamond" 800 speakers, so this has taken me completely by surprise. I was only going to listen to a couple of tracks and ended up getting sucked in, listening for 3.5 hours and almost being late for my own dinner-party :B

The waiting is unbearable.

[SoundEngine355]

Ehhh - the diagrams are not for the new diamond versions - but for the now discontinued "d" line. Look at the date of the drawings. So how do you come up with the conclusion that they are the same as the Diamond line?
I don't doubt they are the same layout but the components are different (Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil)..

Funny thing is that if you use the B&W service website to go back in time you will see that they have been using the same schematics for a very long time - ie the crossover points have been the same. However the sound difference between the old Matrix series, the first Nautilus and going forward from there have been huge.

Yes that is right the diagrams are the old "D" series.

Going by all the pictures I have seen of the latest "Di" series and the crossovers they are all the same value components.

[SoundEngine355]

I'm pretty sure the that the reduction in weight is due to the smaller neodymium magnets on both woofers.

Correct.

[SoundEngine355]

I cannot wait to listen and open up the new series and see whats inside.

I do know that the:

800D vs 800Di
Tweeter: 4.7uF vs 4.7uF
Midrange: 10uf+22uf+22uF vs 10uf+22uf+22uF
Woofer: 100uF+100uF vs unknown

Point I am trying to make, as all 803D/802D/800D owners may be able to upgrade to a Di version just by changing to the latest woofers and new tweeter dome!

Guess time will tell

[AV-OCD]

I was in at my local dealer and listened to the 805D on Naim equipment as well as a short stint with the 804D on McIntosh. While I did not do any direct A/B listening, I think Omar & Tim are going to be very happy. I felt the soundstage was larger and a more liquid sound than from the 805s I have now...I am even thinking about upgrading my 2.1 system myself... :B

The 805Ds were in Piano Black, the 804Ds in Cherry...both looked very good.

Promising news. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[wettou]

I'm pretty sure the that the reduction in weight is due to the smaller neodymium magnets on both woofers.

Not as good quality, it would be interesting to listen to 802D and Di side by side but not Dealers will do it!!!

[Orb]

Not as good quality, it would be interesting to listen to 802D and Di side by side but not Dealers will do it!!!

But considering dealers do not keep a stock of out of date products this is not too surprising as the cost to them would be massive; no dealer or business likes to keep excess stock, which the out of date 802d would require.
Unless of course you mean they should keep an 802d just for comparison, would be nice but again from a business perspective having a reference system one does not sell is also not good.

But I agree, would be nice to be able to compare them, just not practical at a dealership.

Cheers
Orb

[Orb]

I cannot wait to listen and open up the new series and see whats inside.

I do know that the:

800D vs 800Di
Tweeter: 4.7uF vs 4.7uF
Midrange: 10uf+22uf+22uF vs 10uf+22uf+22uF
Woofer: 100uF+100uF vs unknown

Point I am trying to make, as all 803D/802D/800D owners may be able to upgrade to a Di version just by changing to the latest woofers and new tweeter dome!

Guess time will tell

Just to add.
I think we should consider the new speaker to be a tic-toc (consider Intel releasing processors where tic is a new design and toc is a revision of it/upgrade) process; these are not really a new design model but an upgrade, hence in the toc process.

For most of those with the 803/802/800D I would assume for now its better to wait for the tic process, which may be the next model after the current di (again assumption here).

Edit:
ALthough my gut feeling is the 803di may now be voiced to be more in-line with other 80x range of speakers.

Thanks
Orb

[aarsoe]

SoundEngine335

You are missing the point. The component values may be the same, but the actual components are not.
The 4.7 uF is now Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil vs the old Silver/Gold.
Price difference between the two are HUGE. A 4.7 uF in S/G/O is about 250 USD a pop.

Now the real question is if replacing the 4.7 uF in the "old" 802D will give the same sound as the new ones.
I believe so and have already ordered the parts for the upgrade.
Will be able to tell the result in a couple of weeks as I have to travel - so stay tuned.. :-)

[Antus]

in addition to the tweeter crossover, If you have a 802D and below (anything except 800D) u can also buy two 22mF MCap Spreme to replace the white 47mF. Or should u want to go all the way, then pick few Silver/oil to get around 45mF in value.

[ShadowZA]

...Will be able to tell the result in a couple of weeks as I have to travel - so stay tuned.. :-)

I am very interested in your findings. Do keep us posted please. A potential upgrade path? I hope so.

[jamesdaman]

What caps are in the 805s then???

[style]

I agree with Tim!

@Jonzie: I heard the 805 and 804D and like every other person who has had the pleasure of listening reinforces my thought that the new 805/804D are great speakers!
(Promising news -without doubt)

wuth 803D (and up) the sound was already known by the diamond while the 2 "small" is the Big surprise! :T
a very surprise, much more than a 802D/800D:
much more than a 802D or 800D! we go see or better listen...

In every case the 805/804D is a great "rabbit from the hat"

Style

[aarsoe]

Antus

Would be better just to get 2 x 22 uF in Supreme and then do a bypass with a small (0.1 -0.5 uF) Silver/Gold/Oil for best result.

[kaitkei]

All 23 kG? 8O

Yes why is it so hard for you to see?

The new neodymium magnets are very small compared to the old ferrite ones. The new 800 diamond magnets are less than 3" in diameter, and the 802 diamond's (and lower models except 805 diamond) magnets are less than 1 1/2" in diameter.

So for this reason I can easily see the older 800D magnets weighing 11.5 kg more per assembly over the new ones. For example, the magnet on my Subwoofer weighs 16.8 kg.

[wettou]

But considering dealers do not keep a stock of out of date products this is not too surprising as the cost to them would be massive; no dealer or business likes to keep excess stock, which the out of date 802d would require.

Well I am sure some dealers have the 802D in stock and will have them before receiving their new stock. But it is not in their best interest in comparing them? What if the 802D sounds better than the 802Di

Unless of course you mean they should keep an 802d just for comparison, would be nice but again from a business perspective having a reference system one does not sell is also not good.

As I said there is no incentives for anyone except the end user to compare both 800D series to 800Di, may be Kal can!

[wettou]

More Euro Pictures





Bloc MBL 8011AM et ensemble Classic Line très efficace sur ces biblios...







Look assez inhabituel pour cette ensemble plutôt impressionnant en terme de dimension. J'ai préféré l'écoute de cette combinaison d'éléments à l'écoute de l'année passée qui était beaucoup plus "terne".
Même si cette écoute n'était pas ma préférée de ces journées portes ouvertes elle laissait augurer un haut potentiel par le biais d'une pièce d'écoute plus appropriée.

Ensemble référence Line composé du CD Transport 1621A, du D/A Converter mbl 1611F, du pré 6010D, des énormes blocs 9011 et enfin des enceintes 101E MKII...



Plutôt atypique...





Regardez l'arrière plan ! Collection impressionnante de CDs et de Vinyles. Sammy, un vrai "mélophile" ? ...



Possibilités infinies ? ...





Le pré d'Aurélien...



Finition exemplaire...







Mon petit coup de coeur pour cet ensemble très musical et jouant sur une restitution plus analogique.
Enceintes mbl 116F Elegance, bloc mbl 9007, Pré 5011 et lecteur CD 1531...





















Un bel objet traine dans un coin de la pièce. Bloc et pré Burmester...



Et puis, aller à Anvers c'est aussi l'occasion pour faire un peu de tourisme...

[AV-OCD]

Man, with all of these pics of the 805Di's popping up at dealers all over the world, why won't they ship me mine already?

I'm about to make a flight out to France and steal me a pair. :

One thing that is nice to see from these most recent pics is that the quality of the finish matches the price. It is common, even with high-end speakers, for there to be ripple and "orange peel" texture to the glossy finish. Meaning that they did not sand between each coat (to save time and money). The reflection of the environment on the 805Di's in the pics above show very little of this distortion.

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes why is it so hard for you to see?

The new neodymium magnets are very small compared to the old ferrite ones. The new 800 diamond magnets are less than 3" in diameter, and the 802 diamond's (and lower models except 805 diamond) magnets are less than 1 1/2" in diameter.

So for this reason I can easily see the older 800D magnets weighing 11.5 kg more per assembly over the new ones. For example, the magnet on my Subwoofer weighs 16.8 kg.

I am skeptical but it is possible.

[KyaDawn]

More Euro Pictures

Great photos! The MBL 101E is actually one of my favorite speakers. The omnidirection drivers need to be heard to be believed! With them outputting sound 360 degrees, the soundstage literally "floats" in mid-air, with a huge sweet spot and the imaging is fantastic. Really a different experience than any traditional cone-driven speakers. I heard them back-to-back with Wilson Alexandria X-2 S2s and I much preferred the MBLs, though the Wilsons handled the impact and punch of the lower frequencies much better, particularly with jazz and instruments like drums. For vocals and most acoustic instrumentation, the MBLs were superior in their presentation for my tastes, with how they floated in mid-air while retaining their distinct positioning in the soundstage.

[beden1]

Do they offer a black stand for the 805Di's or just the silver?

[AV-OCD]

Do they offer a black stand for the 805Di's or just the silver?

Yes, both.

[style]

Hallo,

you canuse the stand from the 805 S....

I like the 2 combination but the black & black will be most attraktive.

the silver stand make a combi more "old desing - vintage" or?!?

what do yu think Tim?

here a suppurt::

and?

Style

[AV-OCD]

Thanks for the suggestion on the wall-mount Omar. I'm considering that one, but I wonder if the side clamps will work on a curved speaker like the 805Di?

[wettou]

Thanks for the suggestion on the wall-mount Omar. I'm considering that one, but I wonder if the side clamps will work on a curved speaker like the 805Di?

Probably not plus you might damage the finish, what a shame :cry:

Also what electronics are you going to use since you are liquidating your Classé gear

Here is an interesting amp

http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-195-odyssey-audio-khartago-stereo-amplifier

Look at what they compare it too!!

http://www.avguide.com/blog/995-wonder-amp

The owner of the company is a character

[AV-OCD]

803Di - brief audition

Hey guys,

I went to the local dealer to see if they had the 805Di's on demo. Unfortunately they did not, but they did have the 803Di, which I listened to for about 30 mins. For the sake of being thorough, the 803Di’s were connected to / powered by a $6K Ayre CD Player, a $3.5K Ayre Stereo Preamp, and a $5K Ayre 2Ch Amp. The speakers were positioned about 9 feet apart on the short wall of a semi-acoustically treated room that was roughly 15’ x 25’ x 10’. The speakers were 3 feet from the wall behind them and 3 feet from the side walls, toed in about 15 degrees. They were sitting directly on the floor (not spiked).

First, I have to say up front that I listened to the 803D last year at this same dealer, and while it was a generally good speaker, it did not make it onto my short list for the reasons I cover below. To avoid offending happy owners, I don’t like to publically criticize the speakers I’ve listened to, especially in a forum dedicated to B&W owners, so I hope that if you are an 803D owner that you don’t take my comments personally. We all like what we like, and if you are a happy 803D owner, one man’s opinion shouldn’t change that. It is also quite possible that the problems I heard were due to the room and the position of the speakers in the room. In fact, I'm sure that some of what I heard was.

First, the good news is that the 803Di and 803D sound virtually identical, that is based on my year-old memory of the sound of the 803D. For the current 803D owner, if you don’t find the new finishes a compelling reason to buy the new model, I heard no compelling sonic reason to make the change. And for the potential new 803 owner, if you are looking to save some money, I would look for a demo pair or used pair of 803D. With that said, the treble balance on the new Di might be a bit better than the D, but without them being side by side I can’t say for sure.

More good news is that from the middle of the midrange on up through the treble, the 803Di is a great speaker. There is the hallmark expansive sound stage; finely detailed treble with no trace of grit, sibilance or edge; and an open sounding midrange. The issue I have with the character of the 803D and Di speaker is the same, and that is from the lower midrange through the upper bass. Vocals with lower midrange reach (male and some female) tend to have a chesty, somewhat boxy quality. This tends to make the sound less “transparent” and it cues me into the fact that I’m listening to a speaker and not the real thing. There was also a thumpy quality to the upper bass. However, I did find that if I moved the listening seat back about three feet, much of the thumpy quality went away. It was still there, but considerably less distracting than 3 feet forward. So the room and speaker position were definitely playing a role with this aspect of the sound quality. I also believe that things would have been better if they would have decoupled the speakers from the floor (with spikes), as I could feel certain lower midrange and bass notes resonate through the floor and up through my feet.

In contrast, I listened to all of the same tracks through a pair of Wilson Audio Sasha’s in the same room (they were at the other end) and there was no lower mid / upper bass problem. Then again, with that speaker, the low bass was a bit too ripe. This was also subdued by moving the listening position.

As I write this, I’m reminded of something I’ve learned over the years, and that it is very difficult to judge the performance of any full range speaker from the lower mids downward because the room and listening position play as much of a role in the sound as the speaker its self. I still think there is some lower mid coloration in the 803 though.

There is one last thing that I would like to mention, and that is if you are using a modern prepro with Room EQ, I think there is a good chance (not a 100% chance) that a most of the character cited above could be greatly diminished. The wild card is how much of that coloration is due to a “noisy” cabinet. It is quite a challenge to make a speaker the size of the 803 that has a completely inert cabinet. Just look at the 802D for example. That thing is built like the proverbial brick sh*t house, and for a reason. This is also one of the reasons that I tend to go for stand mount speakers. It’s much easier to make a small cabinet that doesn’t sing along with the music. I just hope that this is the case with the 805Di.

[AV-OCD]

Probably not plus you might damage the finish, what a shame :cry:

Also what electronics are you going to use since you are liquidating your Classé gear

Here is an interesting amp

http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-195-odyssey-audio-khartago-stereo-amplifier

Look at what they compare it too!!

http://www.avguide.com/blog/995-wonder-amp

The owner of the company is a character

Honestly, I've never heard significant differences from well engineered front-end gear, so I'm going back to a good quality Denon AVR. I've been through a lot of high-end gear and I've found the speakers, the room, the set-up of the speakers in the room and the recording to have the biggest impact on sound quality. Sure I'd still like to own the Classe gear for the build quality and the aesthetic appeal, but I'm scaling back and trying to be at least somewhat more practical.

Besides, I don't trust the guys at The Absolute Sound as far as I can throw 'em, especially Robert Harely.

And this guy .....



He's not fooling anyone with that rug.

If he wants people believe that is his real hair, who knows what else he wants you to believe. 8O

Check this out: http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...stID=5093#5093

[wettou]

Honestly, I've never heard significant differences from well engineered front-end gear, so I'm going back to a good quality Denon AVR. I've been through a lot of high-end gear and I've found the speakers, the room, the set-up of the speakers in the room and the recording to have the biggest impact on sound quality. Sure I'd still like to own the Classe gear for the build quality and the aesthetic appeal, but I'm scaling back and trying to be at least somewhat more practical.

Besides, I don't trust the guys at The Absolute Sound as far as I can throw 'em, especially Robert Harely. And this guy .....

He's not fooling anyone with that rug. If he wants people believe that is his real hair, who knows what else he wants you to believe. 8O

Check this out: http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...stID=5093#5093

This is incredible!! Whoa what a crook!!

Yamaha would be my pick when I decide to downsize. Yamaha makes music instruments and have a pro division as well.

I had bad experience with Denon with very poor reliability!!

[1oldguy]

Curious what anyone here thinks of Pioneer receivers as I too am trying to scale back?
Also how they compare to Yamaha?

[Skyblue]

Hey guys,

I went to the local dealer to see if they had the 805Di's on demo. Unfortunately they did not, but they did have the 803Di, which I listened to for about 30 mins. For the sake of being thorough, the 803Di’s were connected to / powered by a $6K Ayre CD Player, a $3.5K Ayre Stereo Preamp, and a $5K Ayre 2Ch Amp. The speakers were positioned about 9 feet apart on the short wall of a semi-acoustically treated room that was roughly 15’ x 25’ x 10’. The speakers were 3 feet from the wall behind them and 3 feet from the side walls, toed in about 15 degrees. They were sitting directly on the floor (not spiked).

First, I have to say up front that I listened to the 803D last year at this same dealer, and while it was a generally good speaker, it did not make it onto my short list for the reasons I cover below. To avoid offending happy owners, I don’t like to publically criticize the speakers I’ve listened to, especially in a forum dedicated to B&W owners, so I hope that if you are an 803D owner that you don’t take my comments personally. We all like what we like, and if you are a happy 803D owner, one man’s opinion shouldn’t change that. It is also quite possible that the problems I heard were due to the room and the position of the speakers in the room. In fact, I'm sure that some of what I heard was.

First, the good news is that the 803Di and 803D sound virtually identical, that is based on my year-old memory of the sound of the 803D. For the current 803D owner, if you don’t find the new finishes a compelling reason to buy the new model, I heard no compelling sonic reason to make the change. And for the potential new 803 owner, if you are looking to save some money, I would look for a demo pair or used pair of 803D. With that said, the treble balance on the new Di might be a bit better than the D, but without them being side by side I can’t say for sure.

More good news is that from the middle of the midrange on up through the treble, the 803Di is a great speaker. There is the hallmark expansive sound stage; finely detailed treble with no trace of grit, sibilance or edge; and an open sounding midrange. The issue I have with the character of the 803D and Di speaker is the same, and that is from the lower midrange through the upper bass. Vocals with lower midrange reach (male and some female) tend to have a chesty, somewhat boxy quality. This tends to make the sound less “transparent” and it cues me into the fact that I’m listening to a speaker and not the real thing. There was also a thumpy quality to the upper bass. However, I did find that if I moved the listening seat back about three feet, much of the thumpy quality went away. It was still there, but considerably less distracting than 3 feet forward. So the room and speaker position were definitely playing a role with this aspect of the sound quality. I also believe that things would have been better if they would have decoupled the speakers from the floor (with spikes), as I could feel certain lower midrange and bass notes resonate through the floor and up through my feet.

In contrast, I listened to all of the same tracks through a pair of Wilson Audio Sasha’s in the same room (they were at the other end) and there was no lower mid / upper bass problem. Then again, with that speaker, the low bass was a bit too ripe. This was also subdued by moving the listening position.

As I write this, I’m reminded of something I’ve learned over the years, and that it is very difficult to judge the performance of any full range speaker from the lower mids downward because the room and listening position play as much of a role in the sound as the speaker its self. I still think there is some lower mid coloration in the 803 though.

There is one last thing that I would like to mention, and that is if you are using a modern prepro with Room EQ, I think there is a good chance (not a 100% chance) that a most of the character cited above could be greatly diminished. The wild card is how much of that coloration is due to a “noisy” cabinet. It is quite a challenge to make a speaker the size of the 803 that has a completely inert cabinet. Just look at the 802D for example. That thing is built like the proverbial brick sh*t house, and for a reason. This is also one of the reasons that I tend to go for stand mount speakers. It’s much easier to make a small cabinet that doesn’t sing along with the music. I just hope that this is the case with the 805Di.

Here in DK, list price for Wilson Sasha is dkk 235.000. List price for b&w 803 di is dkk 66.800. So the sashas er 3.5 times as expensive. 50% more expensive than the 800 di.. I sure hope they are better than the 803di

[AV-OCD]

Here in DK, list price for Wilson Sasha is dkk 235.000. List price for b&w 803 di is dkk 66.800. So the sashas er 3.5 times as expensive. 50% more expensive than the 800 di.. I sure hope they are better than the 803di

I thought this might come up. My comparison of the 803Di to the Wilson Sasha was only to get a point of reference for what the room was doing to the sound.

With that said, I've been through at least a dozen high-end and upper mid-fi speakers over the past 10 years, and the sad thing is that this is very little correlation between sound quality and cost.

I've heard $3K (Paradigm) speakers that I like more than $13K (Focal) speakers, and personally, for my last system, I chose $11K speakers (Wilson Benesch) to replace $16K speakers (Revel).

Oh and I almost forgot, I like the 802D ($12K) more than the Sashas ($26K).

[wettou]

Curious what anyone here thinks of Pioneer receivers as I too am trying to scale back?
Also how they compare to Yamaha?

IMHO Yamaha are a lot more musical, Pioneer uses ICE amplification

[beden1]

Hey guys,

I went to the local dealer to see if they had the 805Di's on demo. Unfortunately they did not, but they did have the 803Di, which I listened to for about 30 mins. For the sake of being thorough, the 803Di’s were connected to / powered by a $6K Ayre CD Player, a $3.5K Ayre Stereo Preamp, and a $5K Ayre 2Ch Amp. The speakers were positioned about 9 feet apart on the short wall of a semi-acoustically treated room that was roughly 15’ x 25’ x 10’. The speakers were 3 feet from the wall behind them and 3 feet from the side walls, toed in about 15 degrees. They were sitting directly on the floor (not spiked). .

Interesting write-up. I did hear a marked improvement in both mid range and lows from my 803Ds when I added the Sound Anchor spikes. Everything seemed to tighten and become more defined. I have since added them to all of my floor standing speakers.

I am familiar that your room has it's own set of challenges from it's dimensions and openings, but still, I wonder how the new 805Ds will perform as your main speakers? Are you planning on adding five of them for a balanced 5.1 or 5.2 multi-channel system?

Also, I just read that you sold your Classe system. I'm curious why you would part with the SSP-800 since you have been a big proponent of it's performance?

[AV-OCD]

Interesting write-up. I did hear a marked improvement in both mid range and lows from my 803Ds when I added the Sound Anchor spikes. Everything seemed to tighten and become more defined. I have since added them to all of my floor standing speakers.

I am familiar that your room has it's own set of challenges from it's dimensions and openings, but still, I wonder how the new 805Ds will perform as your main speakers? Are you planning on adding five of them for a balanced 5.1 or 5.2 multi-channel system?

Also, I just read that you sold your Classe system. I'm curious why you would part with the SSP-800 since you have been a big proponent of it's performance?

Hey Benden -

Yeah, I think the sound from the 803Di's I listened to today would have benefited noticeably by just being decoupled from the floor.

About the 805's - If they make the cut after I listen to them, I'll round out the system with another pair for the rear and the HTM4 for the center. And of course, I'll be crossing all of them over to my JL F112 sub. What are your concerns with the 805's as my main speakers?

About the move away from Classe... this is more complicated. First, I had no issues with the sound quality of the Classe gear. My main motivation to part with it and the rest of my high-end gear was to build a more practical system because my values have always lied with a no nonsense approach to system building. Though it may not seem like it with my choice to try out a pair of $5K stand mounts, I don't really feel I need uber-high-end gear to get great sound. I also have to say when I bought the SSP-800, I made a number of changes to my system all at once, so I have to admit that I really don't know how much the Classe gear contributed to the final sound. I swapped out speakers at the same time that I changed from Lexicon to Classe AND I had my room acoustically treated. A poor decision on my part to do it that way. I was frustrated and desperate after having gone through several high end speakers only to end up disappointed. Then, once everything came together, I may have lavished praise on the Classe that it may or may not deserve. Not that there is any chance that it sounded bad, but my experience prior to owning the Classe was that well-made solid state gear sounds more similar than different.

I've never made enough money really play in the big leagues, and I'm against buying things for status or recognition, yet, I'm still attracted to those things that are typically bought for those reasons. So my reason for buying the Classe was as much for the build quality and aesthetic appeal as it was for its performance. But I also like to try out new gear more than the average guy. To be able to do this, I need to step down a level in price.

So there ya have it, one big complicated mess of a decision.

[style]

Hi,

Tim I have in more mail wrote that the new center B&W match perfect with the "old" 80xD and vice versa. The "old" Htm2D match at 100% with the new 800 serie.
..and this is too the reponse from B&W self! notonly my modest reponse/opinion.

A semi-acoustically (or totaly) treated room give more as a simly power ampli.

you can be surprised from what give you in performance a $. 3k. power ampli in a treated room vs. a not treated room with a p.ampli from $. 20k.!!!

for me the new B&W are only the 805 and 804D the other are sure a little changing inside but not at the level to say change from a 802D to 802Di and say wow is antoher speaker!!!

the bass/LF in stand B&W speaker is a "big" point....
Brook keep your 803D whitout doubt. I will think that a 805/4D as rear can make a good sound (with the D tweeter) but yours 703 make you happy as well or???

the temptetion like wrote tim to have and test new "gears" is in this hobby always present and give pleasure!!.

Tim for the support is not easy -> curved form from the 805 make this "search" with little possibilty...but a good solution can be here jest around the corner...


Style

[beden1]

Hey Benden -

Yeah, I think the sound from the 803Di's I listened to today would have benefited noticeably by just being decoupled from the floor.

About the 805's - If they make the cut after I listen to them, I'll round out the system with another pair for the rear and the HTM4 for the center. And of course, I'll be crossing all of them over to my JL F112 sub. What are your concerns with the 805's as my main speakers?

About the move away from Classe... this is more complicated. First, I had no issues with the sound quality of the Classe gear. My main motivation to part with it and the rest of my high-end gear was to build a more practical system because my values have always lied with a no nonsense approach to system building. Though it may not seem like it with my choice to try out a pair of $5K stand mounts, I don't really feel I need uber-high-end gear to get great sound. I also have to say when I bought the SSP-800, I made a number of changes to my system all at once, so I have to admit that I really don't know how much the Classe gear contributed to the final sound. I swapped out speakers at the same time that I changed from Lexicon to Classe AND I had my room acoustically treated. A poor decision on my part to do it that way. I was frustrated and desperate after having gone through several high end speakers only to end up disappointed. Then, once everything came together, I may have lavished praise on the Classe that it may or may not deserve. Not that there is any chance that it sounded bad, but my experience prior to owning the Classe was that well-made solid state gear sounds more similar than different.

I've never made enough money really play in the big leagues, and I'm against buying things for status or recognition, yet, I'm still attracted to those things that are typically bought for those reasons. So my reason for buying the Classe was as much for the build quality and aesthetic appeal as it was for its performance. But I also like to try out new gear more than the average guy. To be able to do this, I need to step down a level in price.

So there ya have it, one big complicated mess of a decision.

Tim,

It is a most difficult hobby to try to obtain one's audio nirvana, particularly when just about everything we do in life is a compromise. I got the audio bug back in the early 1970's, and have often felt like it was a love/hate relationship. Like you are looking to do now in finding a system that delivers the best bang for the buck, I have always ventured to do while building my numerous systems in the past.

In the end, what makes me satisfied, is being able to put together a system that sounds "nearly" as good as compared to a friend of mine, for example, who spent nearly $300,000 for his system (compared to about the $40,000 that I've spent on the system I've been trying to flush out for the past several years).

The internet also contributes to our frustrations, IMO. We keep reading these forums about people upgrading their speakers or other components (or about manufacturer upgrades), and our own components start to lose their attractiveness.

This time around, I started setting up a base system from scratch that I knew was a compromise, but was not expensive to replace each component. I then focused on each component starting with the speakers, and once I felt comfortable with those, I moved to the pre-amp/processor, source players, and then the amps. As it started to flush out, I was able to identify where my weaknesses existed, and then focused on each component individually, until I found a suitable replacement solution. My last stage has been to work on the the largest compromise in room acoustics, a process that is evolving.

One of the best advice on this forum that I read, is for us to focus more on the music than on any weaknesses in our systems. In the end, I think this is where we all get the most enjoyment. We all need to remind ourselves that this hobby is full of compromises, and that no system can ever replace a live performance.

Good luck with assembling your new system.

[sikoniko]

Tim,

It is a most difficult hobby to try to obtain one's audio nirvana, particularly when just about everything we do in life is a compromise. I got the audio bug back in the early 1970's, and have often felt like it was a love/hate relationship. Like you are looking to do now in finding a system that delivers the best bang for the buck, I have always ventured to do while building my numerous systems in the past.

In the end, what makes me satisfied, is being able to put together a system that sounds "nearly" as good as compared to a friend of mine, for example, who spent nearly $300,000 for his system (compared to about the $40,000 that I've spent on the system I've been trying to flush out for the past several years).

The internet also contributes to our frustrations, IMO. We keep reading these forums about people upgrading their speakers or other components (or about manufacturer upgrades), and our own components start to lose their attractiveness.

This time around, I started setting up a base system from scratch that I knew was a compromise, but was not expensive to replace each component. I then focused on each component starting with the speakers, and once I felt comfortable with those, I moved to the pre-amp/processor, source players, and then the amps. As it started to flush out, I was able to identify where my weaknesses existed, and then focused on each component individually, until I found a suitable replacement solution. My last stage has been to work on the the largest compromise in room acoustics, a process that is evolving.

One of the best advice on this forum that I read, is for us to focus more on the music than on any weaknesses in our systems. In the end, I think this is where we all get the most enjoyment. We all need to remind ourselves that this hobby is full of compromises, and that no system can ever replace a live performance.

Good luck with assembling your new system.

You make a couple great points. I'm struggling with my system because of others upgrading. 8O

But I am also struggling with the notion that it will be really difficult to sell my N802's, as I have concern about shipping them. For someone who likes to rotate and upgrade fairly frequently, the 805Di is very attractive. While it is not an 802Di, it does offer more flexibility when you want to offload them and upgrade in the future.

[KyaDawn]

First, the good news is that the 803Di and 803D sound virtually identical, that is based on my year-old memory of the sound of the 803D.

That's an interesting observation. I was quite surprised to hear my dealer say basically the same thing when we were discussing the 802Di's. Even though they won't get them in for a few months, he and his fellow colleagues has heard the new series and he didn't think there was a significant change to the already "D" models. He did think the 805 improved substantially with the diamond tweeter, and that overall, it has a "sweeter" sound and has lost some of the "metallic" flavor in the treble (using them as surrounds, I don't really notice it myself).

If he was a better salesman :B, he would have told me there was a significant upgrade with the 802Di and would I like to consider trading in my 802Ds? Alas, what he said was quite the opposite so I tend to believe he does feel that way.

I did ask him whether he would be able to arrange a A/B comparison of the two models and he said if they still have stock of the old series when they get in the new, which seems unlikely, but if they do, I would jump at the chance to do the comparison.

[Freddie40]

I can't imagine that people can make a good comparison (on the same day) of 802Ds in room A with electronics A and that accurately compare them to 802DIs in room B with electronics B (probably playing different music). Then throw in a year between and I REALLY can't imagine that people can make a good comparison.

Just my 2 cents

Dave