New B&W serie 800 !!!

[swayback]

I feel your pain.

My opinion on your situation is clear though. Go for the 805Di with sub (that is if you like the sound of the diamond series once they are available to hear). I believe that the 805di's can be bolted to the stand, so they are at no more risk of tipping than a floorstander.

Oh, and I would strongly recommend considering a JL Audio sub instead of the B&W.

Tim,

Thank you for your counsel!

Why the JL Audio and not something like REL or Velodyne, etc.?
Are you satisfied with your bookshelf speaker/sub versus a floorstander in regards to musical quality?
Why Classe as opposed to McIntosh, Rotel, tubes/SS?

Thanks again,
Swayback 8O

[swayback]

Tim,

I'm assuming that only the L/R and center need to be timbre balanced and not the sub, correct?

Swayback

[htsteve]

Tim,

Thank you for your counsel!

Why the JL Audio and not something like REL or Velodyne, etc.?
Are you satisfied with your bookshelf speaker/sub versus a floorstander in regards to musical quality?
Why Classe as opposed to McIntosh, Rotel, tubes/SS?

Thanks again,
Swayback 8O

swayback,

I agree with Tim regarding subwoofers. B&W makes nice subs. I've heard a fair number. However, I believe you can get better performance for the money.

I have owned a Velodyne DD18 (got a nice deal on it as I was putting together my HT room). It is a very impressive sub. It worked quite well in my room. The room correction feature is quite effective and nice. The velodyne DD15 (15 inch woofer) would be quite a beast.

I kept hearing how good the JL Audio subs were. I listened to a Fathom F113. Truly impressive. I immediate could tell it was both more visceral, but amazingly refined. I bought an Fathom F112 (and traded in the DD18). This was judged to be the best fit for my system and room. I've lived with is for a few months and it is truly a reference sub. Amazingly musical (this would work very nicely with 805's) and deep/viceral for HT. The price performance is quite outstanding.

As for timbre matching the sub to the main speakers, I've not actually ever done this (i.e. B&W sub with B&W speakers). I always tried to find the best sub for the system I've had at the time.


Hope this helps.

[AV-OCD]

Tim,

Thank you for your counsel!

Why the JL Audio and not something like REL or Velodyne, etc.?
Are you satisfied with your bookshelf speaker/sub versus a floorstander in regards to musical quality?
Why Classe as opposed to McIntosh, Rotel, tubes/SS?

Thanks again,
Swayback 8O

Most REL subs don't have true low-end response. They roll off the bottom octave to make the sub sound "tighter" and more "musical".

I owned the Velo DD15 before the JL F112 that I have now, and the JL is more articulate, visceral, and powerful. The Velo is a very good sub, but in comparison to the JL, it sounded "slow" and "rounded".

The EQ and the boundary gain control in the JL sub will also help to greatly reduce "room boom".

To these ears, with the exception of tubes, the differences between processors, amps and cd players is pretty minor. These small differences may be important to someone trying to squeeze every last drop of sound quality from their system, or if you are looking to shape the sound of your system, but I'm a speaker guy.

[style]

Hi AV-OCD,

the JL subwoofer are very good -> amazing product!!!!

the Velo is a great bd goooood The only orblem is that the JL is not available in Europa :evil: :evil:



A good Velo DD15 (or more but the DD12 too) arevery great product: vs. the others brand available in Europa they are the best.... :T

Style

[AV-OCD]

Hi AV-OCD,

the JL subwoofer are very good -> amazing product!!!!

the Velo is a great bd goooood The only orblem is that the JL is not available in Europa :evil: :evil:



A good Velo DD15 (or more but the DD12 too) arevery great product: vs. the others brand available in Europa they are the best.... :T

Style

How about Martin Logan? Do you have that brand in Europe? The Descent-i is probably my next favorite sub.

[wettou]

To these ears, with the exception of tubes, the differences between processors, amps and cd players is pretty minor. These small differences may be important to someone trying to squeeze every last drop of sound quality from their system, or if you are looking to shape the sound of your system, but I'm a speaker guy.

YES speakers are the most important link in the chain

Also JL Audio is the best sub I have ever had compared to Velodyne, M&K and B&W

[style]

How about Martin Logan? Do you have that brand in Europe? The Descent-i is probably my next favorite sub.

uuhmmm, I have a friend that have changed from a MLogan to a Velo DD15.
(and in Switzerland is present a dealer with a "award asMartin Logan Dealer)

one word: the Velodyne is a subwoofer and the MLogan dont can what the Velo give you!!!!

is true that the new products (even the top range products)
are interesting .... technology has done its job


for me the ML Descent i will be very good with the ML speaker! , the Velodyne is more flexible and integrates into any system.
the MLogan unfortunately does not have this possibility, but I agree that is a good product.

if you go see B&W have GREAT speakers but the subwoofer from B&W, are good but not at the level from a Velodyne.

[sskim]

New B&W serie 800 !!!

..............And I have no reservations in saying that aesthetics are just as important to me as the sound of the speaker........

I cannot agree with you more. Most people do scoff at me for struggling with the "look" when choosing an equipment but to me, aesthetics trump everything. Aesthetics however are subjective and as an owner of 805S, I do find them quite pleasing. The new 800 series, from the aesthetic point of view, have added a few touches to make them look more "modern" without totally revamping the design.

[swayback]

you guys rock.

[KyaDawn]

Yes, all very good questions.

Most of those were purchases, and some were in-home auditions. Audio, I find, is a very tricky thing. I would initially be enamored with a set of speakers, only to find that after living with them for a month or two that I would dial in on some character or coloration that I found distracting. Rarely was it a matter of wanting more or better, rather it was some additive layer of artifice.

Yes, I can see what you were going through, particularly since it seems you were trying to find the "perfect" set of speakers for you. Your current Wilson-Beneschs, with technical issues aside, how close to they come to your "ideal"? And are you thinking of swapping them with the 805 Diamonds just because of the technical issues you're having now or do you think that the B&Ws might actually be a better speaker for you?

B&W was in the mix during my search, but I was able to audition those at the local store. I loved the 802D, but they are much too large for my space, and the 803D didn't have the treble magic of the 802D and I found it was too chesty through the lower mids. The previous 800 line also wasn't my first pick for aesthetic reasons. The finish looked dated to me. And I have no reservations in saying that aesthetics are just as important to me as the sound of the speaker. I wished that B&W would provide a high gloss black or grey tiger's eye, and I always felt the design would look so much better if they would add a silver accent ring around the drivers. :lol: :lol:

I totally agree about aesthetics, but where our opinions differ is I think the wood finishes on the previous 800 series looked great! The cherry wood cabinet is my favorite of any speaker that I've seen, and I'm not keep on the piano finish or any of the "modern" looking speakers from so many other brands. To me, speakers that have that "look" and certainly with "rings" around the drivers are a dime-a-dozen. The previous 800 series, on the other hand... :B

[AV-OCD]

Yes, I can see what you were going through, particularly since it seems you were trying to find the "perfect" set of speakers for you. Your current Wilson-Beneschs, with technical issues aside, how close to they come to your "ideal"? And are you thinking of swapping them with the 805 Diamonds just because of the technical issues you're having now or do you think that the B&Ws might actually be a better speaker for you?

This gets a bit complicated, but in short, I generally find that above, say $2K pair for bookshelf speakers, or $5K for floorstanders, there is very little correlation between sound quality and increased cost. It becomes a subjective matter as to whether or not I will like the more expensive speaker more or less. And I have found that in general, a lot of what you pay for in the exotic high-end is the cabinet construction, the rarity, prestige, etc.

So even though I love the sound of the WBs, I don't completely believe that I couldn't have been just as happy with something less extravegant.

Going with something in the price range of the 805Di represents quite a step back for me in terms of overall system cost, and I hope that I can do as well or even better in terms of sound quality compared to what I have now.

I'm hopeful, because if the new diamond line borrows at all from the design of the Signature Diamond speaker that I heard last year, I will one happy camper. From the outside, it sure seems like there are enough similarities between the Signature Diamond and the 805 Diamond to suggest that these will be very special speakers. But I don't want to talk them up too much or I'll jinx it. :W

I totally agree about aesthetics, but where our opinions differ is I think the wood finishes on the previous 800 series looked great! The cherry wood cabinet is my favorite of any speaker that I've seen, and I'm not keep on the piano finish or any of the "modern" looking speakers from so many other brands. To me, speakers that have that "look" and certainly with "rings" around the drivers are a dime-a-dozen. The previous 800 series, on the other hand... :B

No arguement here. You like what you like, I like what I like, and lucky for you, you were able to get the aesthetic appeal you desired much sooner than I. Now it's my turn.

If I were to go for a wood finish, it would be an espresso-stained or gray stained zebra wood, with the grain run horizontally. Now that would be beautiful.

[AV-OCD]

I got a chance to talk to one of the Rep's for a bit about the 805D's. I asked Him about performance enhancements to the 805S. He asked if I had ever heard the signature's. I hadn't. He said in the same ball park.
Take it for what it's Worth.
But I can hardly wait to hear them.

I'm slowly going through this thread as I wait impatiently for these to make it to retail, and the above comment has really piqued my interest.

I've been in the hobby for the better part of 15 years, so I'm not easily impressed anymore. I can count on one hand the number of speakers that have left an impression on me in the past 5 years, and I've listened to just about everything worth listening to.

One speaker that was recently added to the list is the Signature Diamond. What a wonderfully balanced, expansive, resolving, and natural sounding speaker. And the Sig has no right to have the bass extension it does for just a single 7" mid/woof.

If the 805Di is in the ballpark of that speaker, which I hope means that the 805Di has mids and highs that match the Sig, but only lacks the bass extension (due to the smaller cabinet), I will have found my next set of speakers. And likely ones I will own for more than a week. :W

I'm very excited about the potential of the 805Di's. On paper, they sure seem to have a lot in common with the Sigs, just in a smaller package.

Now let's just hope I, or anyone else in this thread, has a chance to hear them sooner rather than later.

[HedgeHog]

[YOUTUBE]pNPoPCbB_lI[/YOUTUBE]

[B&W_Group_Fan]

Some manuals and spec sheets are now available for the Diamonds:

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/bwcurrentmanuals.html

[wettou]

Some manuals and spec sheets are now available for the Diamonds:

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/bwcurrentmanuals.html

Gracias

[AV-OCD]

Some manuals and spec sheets are now available for the Diamonds:

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/bwcurrentmanuals.html

Yes, thanks for finding this info. Very helpful.

[B&W_Group_Fan]

You're welcome. I check the support site mostly for firmware updates but was happy to spot these.

[Skyblue]

Some manuals and spec sheets are now available for the Diamonds:

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/bwcurrentmanuals.html

Seems to me that the new 800 diamond are more or less of identical size to the old series. However, the 800 diamond is specified til weigh 102kgs. Wasn't the 800D 125kg's?

[Mikael]

her is another link to a brochure of the new line.

http://avforum.no/forum/generelle-pressemeldinger-nyheter/99715-b-w-800-series-diamond.html

Enjoy

[1oldguy]

What I find interesting is the weight loss for the 800DI.For it to loose so much weight with the same dimensions tells me something is afoot.As Sherlock would say.
As for the new paint job on the marlin head a and tweeter housing to match the Gloss black on the speaker cabinet is just plain unflattering.I much prefer what came before.
I guess I should repeat myself when I as I've said before;Trying to improve the Mona Lisa is next to impossible".

[Relentless]

Seems to me that the new 800 diamond are more or less of identical size to the old series. However, the 800 diamond is specified til weigh 102kgs. Wasn't the 800D 125kg's?

Could that be a misprint? It seems odd that it would lose 50lbs.

[Freddie40]

I doubt it is a misprint. The new 802 Diamond is 17 lbs lighter too.

Dave

[kaitkei]

Could that be a misprint? It seems odd that it would lose 50lbs.

Not at all. I once found a picture of the 800D woofer and they have some huge magnet assemblies on them, so I can easily see the old magnets weighing 25 pounds more a piece over the new smaller neodymium magnets.

I have also found pictures of the 802D woofers and they are no where near the size of the 800D's hence only the 8.5 (17 pound total) difference between the new 802 diamonds and the old 802D. The other thing that is kind of surprising with the old 802 woofers is the voice coil size which looks to be only around 1". You can also see this reflected in the massive price difference between replacement 802D and 800D woofers as one obviously costs a lot more to make than the other.

Now what I find a little disappointing with the new 800 and 802 Diamonds is that their frequency response has not changed from the previous versions. I was at least hoping for a couple of hertz lower bass extension from each?

[wettou]

her is another link to a brochure of the new line.

http://avforum.no/forum/generelle-pressemeldinger-nyheter/99715-b-w-800-series-diamond.html

Enjoy

Great marketing brochure basically the changes are new magnets and aluminum rings 8O

I really wonder if they sound better

[kaitkei]

Great marketing brochure basically the changes are new magnets and aluminum rings 8O

I really wonder if they sound better

...and new crossover parts. 8O

[wettou]

...and new crossover parts. 8O

Not that much changes for such a price increase?

[kaitkei]

Not that much changes for such a price increase?

naw, a totally and completely redesigned woofer with dual neodymium magnets, new tweeter with quad neodymium magnets and new surround, new x-over parts and all the r&d time, now how much could that cost? 8O

[style]

naw, a totally and completely redesigned woofer with dual neodymium magnets, new tweeter with quad neodymium magnets and new surround, new x-over parts and all the r&d time, now how much could that cost?

Hi kaitkei,
The new line has some parts with a new design is not completely changed.
by an acquaintance of the B & W I was assured that it was changed a
apparatus winning market leader with a new product that does not keep up the good name of the brand!

and with myquestion if pay buy a 802D from the old serie without waiting the new he replied that a 802D buy a "old" remains a great good investment!

Style

[AV-OCD]

I doubt it is a misprint. The new 802 Diamond is 17 lbs lighter too.

Dave

And yet the 805 Diamond has gained 6 pounds.

Keep in mind that they went from large ferrite magnets to smaller, lighter, stronger neodymium magnets on the woofers of the floorstanding models. I don't know if that would account for all of the wieght decrease, but it should be a good portion of it.

[wettou]

And yet the 805 Diamond has gained 6 pounds.

Keep in mind that they went from large ferrite magnets to smaller, lighter, stronger neodymium magnets on the woofers of the floorstanding models. I don't know if that would account for all of the wieght decrease, but it should be a good portion of it.

So the price per pound is higher :B :rofl:

[dan87951]

Scary... hmmmm :E

[kaitkei]

Hi kaitkei,
The new line has some parts with a new design is not completely changed.
by an acquaintance of the B & W I was assured that it was changed a
apparatus winning market leader with a new product that does not keep up the good name of the brand!

and with myquestion if pay buy a 802D from the old serie without waiting the new he replied that a 802D buy a "old" remains a great good investment!

Style

Hello,

So you are saying that you heard from someone who knows the inner works of B&W that the new line does not follow past "B&W quality" and that it is all "marketing hype"?

Then thanks for this inside information and I will look elsewhere for my next speaker purchase. :T

[AV-OCD]

Just wanted to share some choice comments from a friend that went to the unveiling of the 802 Diamond here in Seattle at Definitive Audio a few weeks ago.

Hey Tim,
As you may remember, I’ve never been a B&W fan. To my ear, they have always been harsh (thin, metallic, grainy).
I went to the "Music Matters 5" event at Definitive in Seattle a few weeks ago (I remember your distaste for them ). There were several new speakers presented: Vandersteen Seven, Wilson MAXX, Linn, etc., etc. None impressed me. I was especially disappointed by the Vandersteen, or maybe it was the source components? Who knows?
Then I entered the B&W demo room and heard the new (just-released) 802. My impression: That can’t be a B&W. It sounds so not-British, not-B&W. Without going into a lot of superlatives, it may be the best speaker I’ve ever heard.

When I asked for more detail, he responded:

So what do I like about the new 802? I like the way they sound. And…
While listening a few weeks ago, I experienced something new. Sure, all the usual things can be said for the new 802: great soundstage, transparent, accurate, blah, blah, blah. That’s expected for $15k.
However, the new 802 provided something new. I was sitting quietly, minding my own business, carefully listening to French horns, piccolos, and a triangle while sipping red wine, totally relaxed. And then……WHAT THE HELL?!!!
It was the opposite of a gasp, an involuntary exhale. Air was literally (not figuratively) pulled from my chest. For the first time in my listening experience, I did not need to intentionally engage my imagination of soundstage. The orchestra was virtually in the room just eight feet away. If I didn’t know better, I’d think the speakers were just props and a full-size orchestra was behind the black-cloth wall. It was that real.

[Highroller]

So dealers have these in their showrooms now?

[wettou]

So dealers have these in their showrooms now?

I was told April at the earliest :roll:

[AV-OCD]

So dealers have these in their showrooms now?

The 802 was at a special event here, but I don't believe it's still around. I was told mid March for release to the bigger dealers.

[garak]

Just wanted to share some choice comments from a friend that went to the unveiling of the 802 Diamond here in Seattle at Definitive Audio a few weeks ago.



When I asked for more detail, he responded:

Wow Tim, that was such a glowing review. I sure hope the 802Di turns out to be everything he experienced.

I've had a pair on order since November, so hopefully I'm toward the front of the queue. But after reading your buddy's review, it's making the wait that much harder.

Brian

[AV-OCD]

Wow Tim, that was such a glowing review. I sure hope the 802Di turns out to be everything he experienced.

I've had a pair on order since November, so hopefully I'm toward the front of the queue. But after reading your buddy's review, it's making the wait that much harder.

Brian

I think his review is given even more credibility considering that he hasn't liked B&W speakers he previously listened to.

I feel your pain though. I've got the 805 Diamonds on order, and the general opinion of those that have heard them is that they are very close to the Signature Diamond, which I've heard and love.

What has your dealer told you about expected delivery date?

[SoundEngine355]

...and new crossover parts. 8O

Well we dont know what crossover parts have been changed, so its hard to say until we open one up!

[SoundEngine355]

I think his review is given even more credibility considering that he hasn't liked B&W speakers he previously listened to.

I feel your pain though. I've got the 805 Diamonds on order, and the general opinion of those that have heard them is that they are very close to the Signature Diamond, which I've heard and love.

What has your dealer told you about expected delivery date?

Mine has, within the next 3-4weeks.

[KyaDawn]

Just wanted to share some choice comments from a friend that went to the unveiling of the 802 Diamond here in Seattle at Definitive Audio a few weeks ago.



When I asked for more detail, he responded:

Wow, that's amazing, especially since he didn't like B&Ws before. Did he ever hear the 800 series before though? "thin, metallic, grainy" I have heard being used to describe the CM series, but never the 800s. I wonder if this was his first experience listening to the 800s and particularly the diamond tweeters.

"It was the opposite of a gasp, an involuntary exhale. Air was literally (not figuratively) pulled from my chest. For the first time in my listening experience, I did not need to intentionally engage my imagination of soundstage. The orchestra was virtually in the room just eight feet away. If I didn’t know better, I’d think the speakers were just props and a full-size orchestra was behind the black-cloth wall. It was that real."

I hate to sound smug, but I hear this everytime I put on a well-recorded disc with my 802Ds! :B

[garak]

I think his review is given even more credibility considering that he hasn't liked B&W speakers he previously listened to.

I feel your pain though. I've got the 805 Diamonds on order, and the general opinion of those that have heard them is that they are very close to the Signature Diamond, which I've heard and love.

What has your dealer told you about expected delivery date?

Mine has, within the next 3-4weeks.

I just called my dealer, he said pretty much the same thing, a few weeks.

B&W is trying to get 802Di demos out to the dealers in the next few weeks, and mine should be among those.

I'm not sure about the 805Di though.

[swayback]

I think his review is given even more credibility considering that he hasn't liked B&W speakers he previously listened to.

I feel your pain though. I've got the 805 Diamonds on order, and the general opinion of those that have heard them is that they are very close to the Signature Diamond, which I've heard and love.

What has your dealer told you about expected delivery date?

Tim,
Reviewing your prior HT guide, you had a lot of floorstanding models. Do you think that the 805Di's will provide enough mid to low range since they lack the woofer or woofers that the 804 and 803 speakers have?
Swayback

[sikoniko]

I think his review is given even more credibility considering that he hasn't liked B&W speakers he previously listened to.

I feel your pain though. I've got the 805 Diamonds on order, and the general opinion of those that have heard them is that they are very close to the Signature Diamond, which I've heard and love.

What has your dealer told you about expected delivery date?

did you already sell the classe stuff? what electronics will you push the 805Di's with?