New B&W serie 800 !!!

[KahunaCanuck]

You have TWO amazing B&W set-ups! :T

Thanks! :T

[WelshOne]

I emailed B&W some weeks ago asking that very question (and UK availability), and would you believe I have lost the email! However I *think* they said it would be about £3,500.

"THUD"

That was the sound of me falling off my chair...........

How can there be such a justified price with all the aftermarket tech available now to help EQ your sub, antimode, SMS, REW etc etc?

Surely $4500/£3500 could buy any capable sub/s (bigger drivers/cabinets,) and change to purchase EQ?

Thanks for the replies

[RebelMan]

I hear you one room for both so it has to be multifunctional. I am curious did you ever write your review for the SSP-800?

I acquired one and could not be happier :T

I have withheld it for reasons I cannot get into in this thread.

[RebelMan]

It seems that for us users of the HTM1D there is no upgrade path offered if you care that is. I mean changing my 800Ds would result in an unmatched HTM1D that would be nice if B&W offered new drivers and crossover but yeah....dream on.

There is an option for us but perhaps like me not one you could/would entertain. (A third 800 Diamond.)

[Highroller]

Were all the 802D cabinets made in Denmark or were some toward the end of the year done in the UK?

[wettou]

I have withheld it for reasons I cannot get into in this thread.

I sent you a PM

[RebelMan]

Were all the 802D cabinets made in Denmark or were some toward the end of the year done in the UK?

BOTH of the "headed" cabinets (800/802) are formed in Denmark the rest are formed in the UK. And for the record (again) I repeat only ONE of the Denmark plants was moved to the UK. The other remains.

[RebelMan]

I don't get all the pessimism. Real work has been done to improve the series and no one can disputed that they are better from an engineering standpoint. From a subjective stand point it remains to be seen how much better they sound if at all. Still anyone that has already made an investment into the current (old) series should not fret their decision. The existing series models have not lost their luster to the listener that purchased them just because something new has arrived. It's time to quit the chase and just enjoy what you have. Music is much more enjoyable when you put your system worries aside. The new series should encourage us to talk about them but they shouldn't concern us about something potentially missing in our existing systems. Too much effort into that end will yield a definite loss of something - the enjoyment of the music itself!

[William]

Hehe yes the HTM1D and I love. I am using a projector and I didn't want the screen that high as to allow for an 800D hence the HTM1D.

Nonetheless, I think I am done with speakers for some years to come.

The more I think about it the more I feel B&W did us a favor. By minimizing the actual upgrades (about half cosmetic) and dropping the HTM1 this precludes any possibility of taking the plunge. Even if B&W offered me Diamond 802s, 803s and HTM2 as an even money replacement for my 802s, 803s and HTM1D I would say no. Having had a HTM2D there is no way I'd downgrade back to a HTM2. The HTM1 is the only close timbre match for the 802-800's.

[wettou]

I don't get all the pessimism. Real work has been done to improve the series and no one can disputed that they are better from an engineering standpoint. From a subjective stand point it remains to be seen how much better they sound if at all. Still anyone that has already made an investment into the current (old) series should not fret their decision. The existing series models have not lost their luster to the listener that purchased them just because something new has arrived. It's time to quit the chase and just enjoy what you have. Music is much more enjoyable when you put your system worries aside. The new series should encourage us to talk about them but they shouldn't concern us about something potentially missing in our existing systems. Too much effort into that end will yield a definite loss of something - the enjoyment of the music itself!

I agree, I really am looking to hear the new serie and see if they surpass the old ? I might even consider upgrading for the right trade off!

[Highroller]

BOTH of the "headed" cabinets (800/802) are formed in Denmark the rest are formed in the UK. And for the record (again) I repeat only ONE of the Denmark plants was moved to the UK. The other remains.

Thank you.

Would the new 802 diamond be formed in Denmark as well?

[ShadowZA]

I don't get all the pessimism. Real work has been done to improve the series and no one can disputed that they are better from an engineering standpoint. From a subjective stand point it remains to be seen how much better they sound if at all. Still anyone that has already made an investment into the current (old) series should not fret their decision. The existing series models have not lost their luster to the listener that purchased them just because something new has arrived. It's time to quit the chase and just enjoy what you have. Music is much more enjoyable when you put your system worries aside. The new series should encourage us to talk about them but they shouldn't concern us about something potentially missing in our existing systems. Too much effort into that end will yield a definite loss of something - the enjoyment of the music itself!

Well put, James! :T

[KyaDawn]

So there's someone that left a comment on the Stereophile blog about the 805 Diamonds claiming he switched out the tweeters on his 805Ss with diamond ones.

Just to mention that im very thankful to my dealer who told me that for the last 'hidden' upgrade I can change the tweeters with the diamond ones which cost 408 euro pair and u can replace it urself for 1min. though other people said its impossible cause sensitivity maybe is different, crossovers etc. Believe me they matched perfect without any disbalance in the soundstage as if they were meant to be originaly. The improvement in sound is fantastic, the instruments are not dry anymore, its more 3D and its absolutely amazing. Go for it:-)

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2010/bw_805_series_diamond_two-way_monitor

Has anyone heard about this? I didn't know this was possible, and the price is a lot more reasonable than a new pair of 805 Diamonds! :B

[Orb]

I don't get all the pessimism. Real work has been done to improve the series and no one can disputed that they are better from an engineering standpoint. From a subjective stand point it remains to be seen how much better they sound if at all. Still anyone that has already made an investment into the current (old) series should not fret their decision. The existing series models have not lost their luster to the listener that purchased them just because something new has arrived. It's time to quit the chase and just enjoy what you have. Music is much more enjoyable when you put your system worries aside. The new series should encourage us to talk about them but they shouldn't concern us about something potentially missing in our existing systems. Too much effort into that end will yield a definite loss of something - the enjoyment of the music itself!

Ah I dont think there is any pessimism, just that most products dont meet expectations whether it be cost or development when its initially perceived as an update.
Of course this is not helped with the lack of information provided so far by B&W, but then maybe they are holding back the info to temper expectations a bit.
Still, the crossover and woofer changes look to be interesting and far from superficial, I must admit I cannot get my head around the tweeter redesign as it was highly regarded in the 1st place.

However, the changes do mean all of the range have an aspect of interest in comparison with their older models, the 805 and 804 most obvious but it will be interesting to see if the bass is now more popular with those who were previously critical of 804 and also the bloom (as some called it) from 802d.

Kya, now that does seem interesting.
Surprised no-one ever tried to see if fit and size were compatible between 805 and diamond tweeter or just even try it.
I guess warranty/durability considerations stopped most?


Cheers
Orb

[Highroller]

Has B&W ever released an upgrade to a speaker that was not as good as the previous? If so, which ones?

I am trying to gauge the likelihood of the new 802 diamond not being as good as the 802D.

[Orb]

Has B&W ever released an upgrade to a speaker that was not as good as the previous? If so, which ones?

I am trying to gauge the likelihood of the new 802 diamond not being as good as the 802D.

An alternative view is instead of thinking better, more suited to ones preference.
This will mean that some will prefer the model being replaced, while some will prefer the new model, IMO anyway.

You would need to hear both to make up your mind, but then I doubt the differences this time are major apart from possibly the 805 and 804.

Cheers
Orb

[William]

Has B&W ever released an upgrade to a speaker that was not as good as the previous? If so, which ones?

I am trying to gauge the likelihood of the new 802 diamond not being as good as the 802D.

The normal rules for almost all electronics don't apply to transducers (speakers in this case). Basically when you get into higher end speakers it's more about subjective tastes than it's about pure specs. So an argument can be made that someone likes the sound quality (signature) of the N's over the D's (or D's over Diamonds) and you can't objectively refute it based on science or measurements. The same can be said for picking Wilson Audio's (or whatever) over B&W.

[scanido]

Upgrade to Diamond Tweeters

So there's someone that left a comment on the Stereophile blog about the 805 Diamonds claiming he switched out the tweeters on his 805Ss with diamond ones.

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2010/bw_805_series_diamond_two-way_monitor

Has anyone heard about this? I didn't know this was possible, and the price is a lot more reasonable than a new pair of 805 Diamonds! :B

This is exactly what i plan to do with my 803S. I went to CES as well and took a close look at the bass drivers of the 803Di and tweeter housing of the 804Di and they appear very similar to the drivers on my 803S.

As soon as parts are available below, I plan to upgrade the tweeters, possibly the bass drivers, of my speakers!

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/partscenter.html

The lack of on-wall surrounds on the new series and the Piano black finish is reason for taking this route. I wish they kept to the Black Ash as it is so much more elegant and much less reflective.

[george_k]

Has B&W ever released an upgrade to a speaker that was not as good as the previous? If so, which ones?

I remember reading that many people preferred the sound on the Signature 805s compared to the 805S which came out after. I'm still looking for a pair in grey tiger's eye.

[jamesdaman]

ive got 805s, so i may be able to upgrade the tweeter driver and crossover so its basicly the same as the new one but alot cheaper?? if this happens ill be over joyed

[timjclark]

This is exactly what i plan to do with my 803S. I went to CES as well and took a close look at the bass drivers of the 803Di and tweeter housing of the 804Di and they appear very similar to the drivers on my 803S.

As soon as parts are available below, I plan to upgrade the tweeters, possibly the bass drivers, of my speakers!

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/partscenter.html

I had no idea that this website existed - very cool! And I will be looking forward to hearing your feedback if you upgrade your 803S's. I see that a single tweeter for the 803D is $1042. WOW, that will be a pricey upgrade to your 803S's. Best of luck!!

[wettou]

scanido

Thank you great web site

[Hammie]

I just heard from my dealer that the new Rosenut is a different color than the previous Rosenut. He said it is a little more plum.

It came up because were discussing possibly getting 803D's and since they have no more Rosenut HTM2D's, I asked about the new Diamond center.

[scanido]

No problem guys! If you dig deeper into the site you can find schematics of the speakers. This is where i would determine if the new diamond tweeter housings would even be possible to retrofit in the 803S cabinets. Being that the tweeter housing for the 803s/804s appear identical to the new 804 diamonds i'm hoping it would be a straight forward swap, but only the schematics will tell.

Oh i also need one for the HTM3S so three new tweeters!

[1oldguy]

All 3 finishes are slightly different for the fact B&W don't want it to match up with the previous 800 series.It's about sales at the end of the day.But if your the type that can handle the visual mismatch you should be fine.

[dan87951]

All 3 finishes are slightly different for the fact B&W don't want it to match up with the previous 800 series.It's about sales at the end of the day.But if your the type that can handle the visual mismatch you should be fine.

I disagree, B&W made a huge mistake by not matching them to the old series. Now the people who over spent to get the front mains and waited on getting there rears will just go to the used market. Not very smart on there part! It seems this company is all about themselves and not there customers now.. I think there letting fortune get to there head. I wish them the best on selling $7500 804's and $5k 805's though.. hilarious

Oh and i would put on B&W doing another price increase about 6 months after the initial release, this happend when the D series as well. 802D's were 12k when they were first released than moved to 14k shortly after..

[hifiguymi]

Oh and i would put on B&W doing another price increase about 6 months after the initial release, this happend when the D series as well. 802D's were 12k when they were first released than moved to 14k shortly after..

That price increase (Nov 2007) was across the board on all B&W speakers and it had to do the the dollar weakening. That was the first time since I've been selling B&W (I started in 1991) that they raised prices like that. Any other time they only did it when a series changed and it didn't happen all of the time then.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

This is exactly what i plan to do with my 803S. I went to CES as well and took a close look at the bass drivers of the 803Di and tweeter housing of the 804Di and they appear very similar to the drivers on my 803S.

As soon as parts are available below, I plan to upgrade the tweeters, possibly the bass drivers, of my speakers!

http://www.bwgroup-support.com/partscenter.html

The lack of on-wall surrounds on the new series and the Piano black finish is reason for taking this route. I wish they kept to the Black Ash as it is so much more elegant and much less reflective.

Do you know if the tweeter is aligned the same on the 803S and the 803D? I don't remember if it is. The housing itself is different however, that much I know. Also you will need to upgrade the crossovers as well. You would have to try the 804 Diamond crossover since the 803 Diamond had three woofers. It will be interesting to see what you think once it's done.

Eric

[Race Car Driver]

My experience is the D housing is different.
I converted a broken HTM2D tweeter assembly to a N assembly to match with my N802s

[Skyblue]

I heard a rumor on the web that there will be new subs in the 800 series but that they were just not announced yet. Also that cherry versions would not ship until may. Meh...

One could speculate that perhaps the HTM1D will return after all?

[Race Car Driver]

I heard a rumor on the web that there will be new subs in the 800 series but that they were just not announced yet. Also that cherry versions would not ship until may. Meh...

One could speculate that perhaps the HTM1D will return after all?

I would hope so. Its such a badass center ;x(

[1oldguy]

I disagree, B&W made a huge mistake by not matching them to the old series. Now the people who over spent to get the front mains and waited on getting there rears will just go to the used market. Not very smart on there part! It seems this company is all about themselves and not there customers now.. I think there letting fortune get to there head. I wish them the best on selling $7500 804's and $5k 805's though.. hilarious

Oh and i would put on B&W doing another price increase about 6 months after the initial release, this happened when the D series as well. 802D's were 12k when they were first released than moved to 14k shortly after..

Yes I agree, that is the other scenario which is most likely to happen.The used market will do very well for the next foreseeable while.

[wettou]

Cherry should remain the same I hope just in case I decide to upgrade :B

[1oldguy]

Cherry should remain the same I hope just in case I decide to upgrade :B

From the pictures I have seen i seriously doubt it.Though I hope your right for those who have that color.

[wettou]

From the pictures I have seen i seriously doubt it.Though I hope your right for those who have that color.

I will ask my dealer and will let you know

[Briz vegas]

Tell 'em they are dreamin'

Little birdy just gave me the Australian pricing on the new 800 series. I hope he got it wrong.

805D $10,000 at current exchange, that means about $9,200 US dollars.

My friend was less clear on the 804D but $15K AU was mentioned. So this represents a doubling of the prices basically. It would seem that the higher speakers will pretty much jump up in price by about $5K Aussie or more.

I have heard the Focal 1028 be ($12k) against the 804S. I had some issues with the components used as I felt they would favour the easier to drive Focal, but in that comparison the 804 did not come off so well. Fortunately I am getting much more out of my 804s at home.

For $15k the 804D will need to be stunners.

Better crossovers and some of those Japanese phase plugs are looking much more tempting than upgrading speakers right now. Maybe I have finally reached the point of diminishing returns and put the hifi hobby on the backburner (ie stick with buying CDs).

I've often thought about finally jumping in and learning the guitar. What should I get guys, a fender strat or a gibson les paul. Which pickup should I get if I like a traditional blusey sort of sound. What about a Gibson ES-345. Whats a diminished minor chord and does it have a place in blues music? :roll:

[RebelMan]

Would the new 802 diamond be formed in Denmark as well?

The enclosure (cabinet) is yes BUT all the work to build and test the speaker (this goes for all the old/new 800 series models) is done in the UK.

[RebelMan]

I just heard from my dealer that the new Rosenut is a different color than the previous Rosenut. He said it is a little more plum.

There are always going to be some variations with stain dye lots. If the differences were significant the color would assume a new name. Unless the dealer can qualify the comparisons (same room/same lighting/same age/side-by-side) I would be hesitant to accept the comments at full face value.

[RebelMan]

I would hope so. Its such a badass center ;x(

A badass it is but a pain in the a$$ too. :P

[style]

Hallo RebelMan,

do you think that the "new" 802D will be better in sound vs. the actuall model?

I have a 803D at today (Htm2D as center): if I think at one upgrade go with the 802D (and the 803D as rear in place from my 805S) or buy a 805/804D as rear?

with the 802D new or old serie I think that the old model with a 30% discount from the official price vs. the new 802D much more expensive at today is a great investiment go with the "old serie": I don't know if the electronic part inside ( cain the new serie) n give a better sound vs. the old!
for the color the wood like Rosenut is the same in the old & new serie, only the black come in pianoblack effect!

you have a 800D (that right?) and I don't think you go replace your speaker with the new model "only" for the steel-ring and little restyling.....
and can be a personal taste (if the the xover&co. are changed) I can prefer the actual sound vs. the new linie.

buy in a close box a pair of 802D old serie with a 30% price difference (in advantage for the "old" serie) i'm sure is a good investiment!
please can you give a feed back?


thx Style

[William]

A badass it is but a pain in the a$$ too. :P

Only if you have to move it. :B

Hallo RebelMan,

do you think that the "new" 802D will be better in sound vs. the actuall model?...

Subjective question. Should read "In your opinion do you....". :T

[alebonau]

Little birdy just gave me the Australian pricing on the new 800 series. I hope he got it wrong.

805D $10,000 at current exchange, that means about $9,200 US dollars.

My friend was less clear on the 804D but $15K AU was mentioned. So this represents a doubling of the prices basically. It would seem that the higher speakers will pretty much jump up in price by about $5K Aussie or more.

I have heard the Focal 1028 be ($12k) against the 804S. I had some issues with the components used as I felt they would favour the easier to drive Focal, but in that comparison the 804 did not come off so well. Fortunately I am getting much more out of my 804s at home.

For $15k the 804D will need to be stunners.

Better crossovers and some of those Japanese phase plugs are looking much more tempting than upgrading speakers right now. Maybe I have finally reached the point of diminishing returns and put the hifi hobby on the backburner (ie stick with buying CDs).

I've often thought about finally jumping in and learning the guitar. What should I get guys, a fender strat or a gibson les paul. Which pickup should I get if I like a traditional blusey sort of sound. What about a Gibson ES-345. Whats a diminished minor chord and does it have a place in blues music? :roll:

very intersting !

yep tell them theyre dreamin...

having heard the 1007be vs the 805s and 1027be and 804s the focal outclass them fair and square and will now have people walking away with a pair of focals at sizable chunk of money saved over the B&Ws.

Apart from that a real problem a $15k pair of 804D's is goign to have is that the 802D has sold in oz for years for $22k ! why would you buy an 804d when can grab an 802D for not much more !

dont get me wrong, Am a B&W fan from way back, and have always liked a lot about speakers like the 805s and 802D. but if this is what kind of pricing B&W have to end up with to compete....then afraid to say theyve lost the plot !

[jamesdaman]

Id bet a few quid (£) that the new series sounds better and you will notice it. People are complaining they havent done enough........ new tweeter new drivers and new crossovers and maybe im not sure yet but improved cabinet. What more do you want lol thats everything being upgraded.

[Mark_NZ]

I don't believe B&W have done enough improvements to the 800D, 802D & 803D to warrant the "new 800 series" nomenclature. While the changes (tweaked drivers, improved cross-over, better connections and some cosmetic changes) are nice, they don't address the fundamental limitation with the 800 series design in that the FST midrange design is a compromise when compared to ideal driver pistonic driver behavior. To me that compromise manifests as a restriction in micro-dynamics by smoothing over the higher harmonics through chaotic breakup of the Kevlar cone.

So the key change I was looking for was a dramatically improved midrange design. Perhaps some form of coaxial Kevlar design that effectively enables a four-way design to ensure each driver remains pistonic in it's working range. An ideal option is a diamond midrange, but is likely to be too expensive for the 800 series any time soon.

For the 805, 804 and 803 I hoped that B&W would contour the front baffle to minimize diffraction effects.

For the 804 and 803 I expected some form of cast metal base to improve the stability and ability to easily adjust the spike heights. (for both 804S and my current 803D I built bases that screwed onto the bottom and in turn had spikes further spaced out - this dramatically improved stability and improved the sound).

For the 800D, the square base is a design disgrace. This was mentioned in more that one magazine review - why not provide a similar base design as per the 802D?

Don't get me wrong - I really like the 803D - it has transformed my listening experience due to it's overall musicality with a significant portion of the credit going to the diamond tweeter which does not acerbate the inherent harshness of CDs. Also I enjoy the overall look of the 803D (and also the 804S/D & 802D), so not surprised or disappointed that B&W didn't mess with it.

But has B&W done enough to warrant an upgrade? I am looking forward to the side by side comparisons.

[RobP]

Still anyone that has already made an investment into the current (old) series should not fret their decision. The existing series models have not lost their luster to the listener that purchased them just because something new has arrived. It's time to quit the chase and just enjoy what you have. Music is much more enjoyable when you put your system worries aside. The new series should encourage us to talk about them but they shouldn't concern us about something potentially missing in our existing systems. Too much effort into that end will yield a definite loss of something - the enjoyment of the music itself!

Some of the best advice I have seen in quite some time..... :T quite a wise sage this Rebelman is. :W