CM7 vs. 805S

[kmcheng]

If I have a choice to get either the CM7 or the 805S as the two fronts for a home theater environment with 60% time listening to 2-channel music, which one should I pick? I know it's almost like apples to oranges here since CM7 is floor-standing and 805S is bookshelf. However, in terms of price they are close, and I also don't want to spend money on CM7 to only upgrade to the 80X series one year down the road.

The other pieces of my setup are the Arcam CD73T and the Cambridge Audio 540R receiver. Some time down the road I hope to upgrade to Rotel 1069 + Rotel 1085 (new class D amp). Actually, any comments on this setup are also very much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

[audioqueso]

If it's 60% music, 805S and don't look back. I've only listened to the CM series very very little, but almost everyone will tell you the same, the 800 series is just so much more of a speaker. The last time I auditioned any B&W speaker was in December. 704 vs 805, and even then it was 100% 800 series.

[sandalsocks]

If it's 60% music, 805S and don't look back. I've only listened to the CM series very very little, but almost everyone will tell you the same, the 800 series is just so much more of a speaker. The last time I auditioned any B&W speaker was in December. 704 vs 805, and even then it was 100% 800 series.

I completely agree. The 805S will play deeper bass too. Actually, IMHO, almost every thing is better on the 805S: imaging, sound stage, clarity, bass. Music on it is a whole level up on the CM7's. If you ever wanted to sell the 805S down the line resale will be higher and easier.

[scanido]

If your budget can allow, don't look further then the 805S. It is superior in every regard, except price of course!

[kmcheng]

Thanks a lot for all your comments! It looks like the consensus is 805s.

The reason I am looking at CM7 is that it has the FST for midrange. So for the 40% to 50% of the time I am watching TV, the FST may give clearer dialogues. (I am probably not going to use a center channel since I could not find one shorter than 6 inches, other than the M-1.) When I am auditioning them both I think dialogs are somewhat clearer on the CM7, but then that maybe a physchological effect of reading too much about the FST. Does anyone else have this experience or am I just imagining things?

Other than dialogs I agree that it is hands-down to 805S being better all around.

[audioqueso]

I've never heard the CM series with a movie. It was only with music. However, just my feedback with my 805. Perhaps the CM does make the dialog more clear. But that's not to say the 805 doesn't do anything short of an excellent job with dialog as well too. I go over to my friends' house a lot to watch a movie. No one I know really has a nice HT setup (bestbuy type stuff), but whenever I go back home, I pop in the same movie just to listen, and it's just night and day difference how open and free the voices sound. I may have watched only a few movies that I own where I did not like the way the dialog sounded with my speakers. But I can probably count that with one hand. Other than that, I've never really complained about the way the dialog sounds.

[kmcheng]

So I think I have my heart set on the 805S. I am thinking about driving it with rotel 1085. My dealer is indifferent to that idea and recommend the cheaper and older but larger 1075 instead. But the dealer also does not think the Rotel gears (even the 1095) does justice to the 805S and is recommending Classe and other ultra brands. When I heard the 805S they were driven by the Rotel 1095 and I already thought the sound was out of this world. At that time the dealer probably thought I was too poor to pay for higher-priced options so he did not really try to sell me those. (The dealer was right.) I am just wondering what amps other people are using to drive their 805s?

I will probably stick with the Rotel 1069 as the pre for now, unless som other manufacturer comes up with a decent-sounding pre with HDMI audio capabilities in the price range.

[Hi-5]

i am driving the 805s using RA-1062. only 60watts. the power is absolutly not enough. the sound is not clear or open.
just like driving a Toyota Yaris with 4 fatguys on board. no matter how hard you step on the pedal, still slow.
targeting on this:http://www.krellonline.com/krell_com...&page=kav400xi
but too expansive.

[sandalsocks]

I'm using a rotel 1056 and it drives it fine. I'm sure, based on reading around here that a better amp will bring out more on the speakers. I've never seen a dealer use a class D amp to show case an 800 series speakers, plus they are just expensive. 150-200 watts should be fine since its only bookshelf and I'm sure you'll be complementing it with a sub which should ease the load.

I really think the rotels are fine for the 805s but you should ask the dealer to hook up other brand amps so you can hear for your self. He is getting commission on you so make him work. I'd probably go a step up on the rotel if I was reaching above the 805s, just my opinion.

Even without the FST I think the 805s' are clearer. I don't know why, maybe the FST's quality and construction isn't of the same level as the 800 series.

[angelface]

I have heard both and I would only recommend the CM7's if you like loads of bass.
For speech the 805's will be better. In fact I would think about Wilson Benesch's
Square One's as they won a What Hi-Fi test against the 805's.

The 805's can sound very boomy in small spaces. I also think a good centre speaker
is essential for home cinema.The problem with the 805's is that the matching centre
speaker is too tall to fit in most racks under a telly.

[Karma]

So I think I have my heart set on the 805S. I am thinking about driving it with rotel 1085. My dealer is indifferent to that idea and recommend the cheaper and older but larger 1075 instead. But the dealer also does not think the Rotel gears (even the 1095) does justice to the 805S and is recommending Classe and other ultra brands. When I heard the 805S they were driven by the Rotel 1095 and I already thought the sound was out of this world. At that time the dealer probably thought I was too poor to pay for higher-priced options so he did not really try to sell me those. (The dealer was right.) I am just wondering what amps other people are using to drive their 805s?

I will probably stick with the Rotel 1069 as the pre for now, unless som other manufacturer comes up with a decent-sounding pre with HDMI audio capabilities in the price range.

HI,
I agree with your dealer. On a speaker with the resolution ability of the 805S the Rotel's sound like what they are. Good Bang for the buck but ultimately a midrange amp.

I chose Krell power for mine but there are many who would suggest Classe or McIntosh, etc. In the final analysis, the 805S deserve high end amplification.

But why take our word for it? Go listen. Use those wonderful ears that are stuck on the sides of your head. Your impressions are the only important thing.

Sparky

[kmcheng]

The 805's can sound very boomy in small spaces. I also think a good centre speaker
is essential for home cinema.The problem with the 805's is that the matching centre
speaker is too tall to fit in most racks under a telly.

This is very interesting. What are the dimensions you have in mind? My living room is L:23 x W:10 x h:9 and I sit about 8 feet from the front speakers. The speakers face lengthwise towards the room. Is it small compared to the room where you heard the 805S as boomy?

As for the center channel, the best I can probably do there is the XTC, due to physical constraints. An Audiogon user has a similar set up and he said the sound matches. I won't know for sure until I set them up in my space. However, with the XTC and the 805S I will certainly need a good amp, and I am also planning to add a second PV1. Now that is some serious money, which I would love to have some day. Geez, these things add up, and they never stop.

[sandalsocks]

I have heard both and I would only recommend the CM7's if you like loads of bass. For speech the 805's will be better. In fact I would think about Wilson Benesch's Square One's as they won a What Hi-Fi test against the 805's.

The 805's can sound very boomy in small spaces. I also think a good centre speaker is essential for home cinema.The problem with the 805's is that the matching centre speaker is too tall to fit in most racks under a telly.

Interesting that you say that. Not saying you're wrong but my ears heard it the opposite. I thought the cm7's lacks bass to the point I felt something was missing from the music. I felt the bass is better in the 805s' and was content with the bass except in dance, organ and other types of music that relies heavily on bass.

The professional reviews (I know, take them for a grain of salt) I've read they all said that the cm7's were actually boomy and they all needed to use the port plugs and plenty of space as well. I think

[Briz vegas]

The 805's can sound very boomy in small spaces. I also think a good centre speaker
is essential for home cinema.The problem with the 805's is that the matching centre
speaker is too tall to fit in most racks under a telly.

I would never put a center in a rack under the telly. Put it on a stand so it can breathe if you want it to perform as intended.

If the 805 sounded very boomy then there was something wrong with the setup and room. Whoever set up that demo was either incompetent or could not be bothered to set the system up with any sort of care.

[angelface]

The room I heard the 805's in was a glass conservatory about 8 feet square so that
might explain it! It was not a dealer but a fellow hi-fi addict.

In a larger room at a dealer the thing that impressed me was the richness of the mid-range.

Sorry but Briz but my wife would never let me have a centre speaker on a stand in front of the telly!

... and what's wrong listening to dance music?

[Briz vegas]

The room I heard the 805's in was a glass conservatory about 8 feet square so that
might explain it! It was not a dealer but a fellow hi-fi addict.

In a larger room at a dealer the thing that impressed me was the richness of the mid-range.

Sorry but Briz but my wife would never let me have a centre speaker on a stand in front of the telly!

... and what's wrong listening to dance music?

You are supposed to dance to dance music. :B

Square room, ouch. I understand that 3m cubed (or rooms divisible by that dimension) are evil for standing waves and boomy bass so that would explain it. Imagine an 801D in that room, nasty!

Bummer about the domestic limitations. I have heard this "technology should be invisible" line often - Some will never see the humble loud speaker as a thing of beauty. (slowly fade in strings, and scene of changing light representing sunset around a humble HTM4 on stand in front of a telly).

There is a well proven method for getting around your issue. Get a home demo of a HTM1D for a week, then follow that with a HTM4. "oh thats much better dear, lets get that one on a nice little stand instead" :lol:

[sandalsocks]

I have nothing against dance music b/c I love it. But with either the cm7's or 805s you'll need a sub for sure if you listen to that type of music b/c it has alot of bass.

[f77]

One thing, do not buy the cm:s thinking they'll go better with cheaper electronics, they won't.

[george_k]

If the 805's image anywhere near as well as my 703's (and they should) then you should try them first without a center.

The movie/tv dialog is so crisp that I don't feel a center channel would offer that much more of an improvement.

I'm not only saving the cost of the additional speaker but also the cost of a bigger TV stand and additional amplification.

I recommend you try it both way as you may end up saving some $$$ if you come to the same conclusion I did :-)

Also I agree on the comment of CM7's and 805's needing a sub, I auditioned both these speakers along with a 704. I ended up buying a 703 blindly because I felt each of these speakers lacked bass and couldn't afford an 804/803.

[kmcheng]

I finally bought my B&W 805S and set them up in my living room and just want to report back and thank all of you who contributed your opinions. The 805S are such phenomenal speakers, even though they are still brand new and need some burn-in time. The sound stage is much wider and deeper. The atmosphere is so lively and the sound is so rich that my whole living room just seems to light up whenever I turn on the speakers. I have two PV1 subwoofers, but I have to say the bass in the 805S is fantastic by themselves. (Try "Hotel California" in Eagles' Hell Freeze Over DVD.)

I previously had five M-1's and a PV-1 and had always felt that the M-1's were outgunned by the PV-1. As a result, the bass from the PV-1 became quite directional. I subsequently acquired a second PV-1 to try to correct the problem. While the directional bass issue was fixed, the weakness of the M-1 relative to the PV-1 became even more prevalent. There was a disconnect between the bass output and the high-to-mid range ouput. I could hear a single human voice being divided into the upper range coming from the M-1 and the lower undertones coming from the PV-1. I did not mind this when watching movies/TV, but it became quite annoying when listening to 2-channel music. (I know, what was I thinking listening to hi-fi with the M-1's)? Now that I replaced the two front speakers with the 805S, I could no longer tell where the bass is coming from. I am quite surprised how well the 805S and the PV1 blend together.

It is extremely unfair for me to compare the M-1's to the 805S. I actually thought very highly of the M-1's. These are small wonders by themselves and I think they are an absolutely steal compared to, e.g., the Bose Lifestyle products being sold in every mall in the US.

In any case, now I have two extra M-1's and I am wondering what to do with them. I could (1) use them in the bedroom as the stereo speakers for my CD player or (2) trade them in at full list price (I bought them less than a year ago) for the CM1 or CM7, which will then become my bedroom speakers. My only concern about trading them in is that the M-1 had a much higher WAF than the CM series, and I was already stretching it a bit when I replaced the M-1 with the 805S in the living room. Any suggestions?

[rodH]

but I have to say the bass in the 805S is fantastic by themselves. (Try "Hotel California" in Eagles' Hell Freeze Over DVD.)

That recording is HORRIBLE, I have heard it on my system and my dads, The better the system the more the flaws come out, there is an "echo" and sort of boxed in to the vocals out of the center channel and in one area you can hear an open mic. One of the worse DTS recording to listen to with good gear.

Listen to the Don Henly DVD or the latest Eagles DVD and compare, you will be surprised how much better they are.