How to pair 805s with PV1 for music and movie?

[lukeyeh]

I am new to HT and HT Receivers. I have always been using stereo for music and no HT system. Now I have a Rotel RSX1067, 805s and pv1. I use the system for both classical music and movies. I am wondering what crossover number to use (i.e. 60, 80, ..) and how loud do I set it at the back of the PV1. My room is about 18 x 15 feet.

[Briz vegas]

1. It ain't a crossover (I got told off for using that term by a tech about a month ago) - its a low pass filter (LPF).

2. PV1 LPF only works on high level connection (telephone like wires that came with the PV1). If you use the low level connection you adjust the subs LPF frequency on the receiver. If you set the sub to 80hz on the receiver (I believe this is the THX standard) the 805 will get the signal above 80hz, the sub will get the part of the signal below that (the .1 in 5.1). Remember that only the lowest of frequencies are difficult to locate - setting the LPF higher will impact on stereo performance - ie set it as low as possible.

3. If you are using the "high level" connection the 805 will typicaly still be getting the full range signal with this option. I used to set my sub LPF to the -3db roll off of my main speakers (38hz for me - 45 hz in your case) - this minimises the part of the audio band received by both the sub and the 805.

Point of interest - I had a difference of opinion with the tech guy servicing my sub about the use of the high level connection - he said it was a last resort (contrary to the manufacturer - Rel). The sub is now back with the importer for a health check and a service by someone who actually knows the product (no I did not take it to a backyard guy - it was a hickup with the new local authorised service company - I am told the importers are very good with warrantee issues so I am sure it will be resolved satisfactorily eventually)


nb. I am only familiar with the PV1 and 805 - the Rotel LPF options may differ and offer alternative solutions to those suggested above

[lukeyeh]

Thanks Briz Vegas. This was my first post to a forum ever. Currently I am using a sub interconnect line (one that looks like an analogue or coaxial line). In the Rotel amp the 805s are set to be "Large".

A lot of this stuff is brand new to me. Please let me know if I understand you correctly, I should be using the "telephone like" line that came with the PV1. Then set in my Rotel amp subwoofer menu and the back of the subwoofer to 80hz and -3db.

[Briz vegas]

You have a number of options

1. Stay as you are using RCA only - from what you have described this sounds fine
2. Use the high level connection only - This is great for CDs but not ideal for movies
3. Connect both high and low cables at the same time - I suggest using the search engine at the top of this page and looking up PV1 before doing this. There are one or two old threads on this forum that deal with this issue specifically.

My setup issues were specific to the Marantz receiver. Like you I wanted to use the sub for music and movies, however the Marantz low level (RCA) connection only sent an audio signal to the sub for movies (Dolby Digital or DTS). If I was playing a CD in stereo the receiver would not send any audio to the sub, so for music my only option was the high level connection.

I don't think the Rotel has this problem- I believe it always sends an audio signal to the sub via the low level RCA connection.

I may have confused you with the 80hz and -3db.

80hz is the frequency commonly associated with the large speaker option on your receivers menu - the THX standard is also based around this frequency. I was referring to the low level connection option only - and you are already doing this.

The -3db relates to your main speakers and is an issue if you are using the high level connection. This setup option assumes you are using your main speakers full range, like with the good old fashioned stereo amp.

All speakers run out of puff as the bass gets deeper. This happens gradually so most companies quote the 3db roll off frequency of the speakers, theoretically this is the frequency below which the speakers ability to reproduce deeper bass sounds is limited. This is where you want the sub to start playing a role and making up for the main speakers limitations. The specifications in your speakers manual will quote this as frequency response +- 3db, which for the 805 is 49hz (not 45hz which I quoted earlier - thats the 705).

If you are using the high level connection from your amp to the PV1 set the LPF on the sub to 49hz. I have attached a dodgy diagram to try and show this on a graph (nb the dip at 49hz should not be audible as the sub and the main speakers volume combined will effectively add 3db to what you are hearing and will eliminate the bump - if I am wrong someone will correct me I am sure). I think of this as the default setting, you can set it higher or lower if you like - if you set it higher the sub and the mains will cover more common frequencies, if you set it lower there is the risk that some frequencies will not be covered at all.

hope this helps

[Nolan B]

3. Connect both high and low cables at the same time - I suggest using the search engine at the top of this page and looking up PV1 before doing this. There are one or two old threads on this forum that deal with this issue specifically.

I started a thread a while back about hooking up my PV1 with both connections. What I wanted to achieve was to use the high cables for when I was listening to stereo in bypass mode, but use the RCA when watching movies.

B&W (or at least the person I talked to) didnt know if you could hook up both and what would happen. I finally decided to hook it up with both connects and it works perfect. When I listen to 2 channel bypass the sub works, and when I watch a movie with 5.1 it works.

I am assuming that when the PV1 gets two signals (like in the case of watching a movie) it defaults to the RCA input. I have a hard time however confirming this 100% however. I guess its possible that when I watch a movie the following could be happening.

1.) the PV1 is outputting "double" the siginal. Meaning its playing the signal form both the RCA and high level connection. I am not sure what the relsult of that would be.

2.) The PV1 is ONLY outputting from the high level connection in which case when watching movies i am only getting base from the L anf R channels. althought it doubt this, and would hope I would notice if that was the case.

3.) it works perfect and the PV1 defaults to the RCA when getting two signals.

[dknightd]

Vancouver, you could find out by watching a movie then first disconnecting the rca, then the speaker level inputs to see which is doing what.

[Nolan B]

Vancouver, you could find out by watching a movie then first disconnecting the rca, then the speaker level inputs to see which is doing what.

I would have to find a source which has consistant base going to the center chanel or rears. It would be difficult,.

[lukeyeh]

"When I listen to 2 channel bypass the sub works,.."

Thanks for all the help. For bypass mode in the Rotel RSX-1067 I can not have the sub on. I think I can only control the volume on the amp.

[Briz vegas]

"When I listen to 2 channel bypass the sub works,.."

Thanks for all the help. For bypass mode in the Rotel RSX-1067 I can not have the sub on. I think I can only control the volume on the amp.

Sounds like my Marantz. You will need to use my option 2 or 3 if you want to use the sub for stereo.

If you are still cautious after Vancouver's post simply email B&W direct. I have found them very helpful in the past.

[Nolan B]

"When I listen to 2 channel bypass the sub works,.."

Thanks for all the help. For bypass mode in the Rotel RSX-1067 I can not have the sub on. I think I can only control the volume on the amp.

i dont understand. Why cant you have the sub on? I originally used the RSX 1067 when setting my PV1 by both connections.

Remember the hi level connection attaches right at the speaker outs along with the speaker wire.

[lukeyeh]

Vancourver,

Yes, you are right. I did not realize that the sub wires go with the speaker wires for stereo or 2 channel. Thanks.

[WI Rotel]

If you're using a PV1 with the 1067, simply use the LFE output on the receiver. The 1067 has a "stereo" mode aside from the "bypass" mode. In stereo mode the receiver will act as "crossover" and send the lower frequencies to the PV1 according to the frequency you set it for. The bypass mode is only useful if you have a stereo only setup and or if you have mains that do not need sub assistance. If you have a stereo only setup, then feel free to use the little wires and obviate the LFE output. You cannot use both at the same time. The correct way to use the little wires is to connect them to the left and right outputs in the reciever along with your speaker cables. Again, if you use your system for surround too, simply forget the hi level connection, it isn't necessary, and again, they shouldn't be used if you are using the LFE at the same time since it will create a ground loop. To be totally honest, I never use stereo any more, when listening to music I use Rotel's 5 channel stereo mode. To my ears it sounds much better than stereo can ever hope to ever sound. For music I also like it better than other .1 surround modes.

[Nolan B]

If you're using a PV1 with the 1067, simply use the LFE output on the receiver. The 1067 has a "stereo" mode aside from the "bypass" mode. In stereo mode the receiver will act as "crossover" and send the lower frequencies to the PV1 according to the frequency you set it for. The bypass mode is only useful if you have a stereo only setup and or if you have mains that do not need sub assistance. If you have a stereo only setup, then feel free to use the little wires and obviate the LFE output. You cannot use both at the same time. The correct way to use the little wires is to connect them to the left and right outputs in the reciever along with your speaker cables. Again, if you use your system for surround too, simply forget the hi level connection, it isn't necessary, and again, they shouldn't be used if you are using the LFE at the same time since it will create a ground loop. To be totally honest, I never use stereo any more, when listening to music I use Rotel's 5 channel stereo mode. To my ears it sounds much better than stereo can ever hope to ever sound. For music I also like it better than other .1 surround modes.

I cant say I agree with any of that. The reason why you would want to use Bypass over Stereo mode is if you have a good quality CD player with better DACs then the 1067.

Using both connections does not create a ground loop. I use both connected and there is no ground loop in my system.

I am not saying this is the reason, but it is possible that the reason you like the sound of 5 channel stereo so much is becuase you have not heard a good CD player in bypass on your system. I like 5 channel stereo when I am having a party, ot walking arround with sound in the back ground, but when sitting and listening to music Stereo bypass with a quality player is far better IMO.

[Briz vegas]

I cant say I agree with any of that. The reason why you would want to use Bypass over Stereo mode is if you have a good quality CD player with better DACs then the 1067.

.

Back in my receiver days I used "bypass" for stereo listening regardless of source. A simple signal path is best if you want to get as many goodies out of a recording as you can. 5.1 can be fun, but on CDs it is just an amusing alternative for a bit of variety - give me a pair of 804s over 5 x 705 any day.

hmmm, I was just distracted by the organ on Ben Harper's "By My Side". Love that sound.

[WI Rotel]

I cant say I agree with any of that. The reason why you would want to use Bypass over Stereo mode is if you have a good quality CD player with better DACs then the 1067.

Using both connections does not create a ground loop. I use both connected and there is no ground loop in my system.

I am not saying this is the reason, but it is possible that the reason you like the sound of 5 channel stereo so much is becuase you have not heard a good CD player in bypass on your system. I like 5 channel stereo when I am having a party, ot walking arround with sound in the back ground, but when sitting and listening to music Stereo bypass with a quality player is far better IMO.

I have a rotel 5 disc carousel, though not an ultimate CD, its pretty decent. My problem is that on bypass stereo I miss the ambiance that the 5 channel stereo provides. With 5 channel you get stereo everywhere in the room instead of in the proverbial sweet spot. Furthermore, the stereo image is exponentially enhanced by the use of the center channel. Plain Stereo sounds dead in comparison. It's very similar to comparing DVD audio to stereo. We have to face it, live music is not stereo, stereo was simply the best that could be done with technology of half a century ago! We've come a loooong way baby :W

[WI Rotel]

I have a rotel 5 disc carousel, though not an ultimate CD, its pretty decent. My problem is that on bypass stereo I miss the ambiance that the 5 channel stereo provides. With 5 channel you get stereo everywhere in the room instead of in the proverbial sweet spot. Furthermore, the stereo image is exponentially enhanced by the use of the center channel. Plain Stereo sounds dead in comparison. It's very similar to comparing DVD audio to stereo. We have to face it, live music is not stereo, stereo was simply the best that could be done with technology of half a century ago! We've come a loooong way baby :W

. I think Rotel deserves some kudos in the development of such a virtual surround from a stereo source, personally I think it sounds much better than what dolby and the other .1 formats do for music originating from a plain 2 channel source. For some reason, its effect on dynamic range is very similar to my ancient multifrequency DBX expander (still in the basement somewhere) which was a digital compressor/expander which very succesfully enhanced the dynamic range and clarity of any source. DBX was one of the first, if not the first, manufacturer that improved analog recordings by digitalizing them and enhancing it digitally before making it analog again, it worked wonders.