MATRIX 800: B&W's STATE OF THE ART?

[Jorgitox]

Hi Grompa;

I still own and enjoy my 800's. Here you got a pic the way my system is setted up today:



I read that what put your mind in trouble is the way to drive them up. Well, they are big and it's a fact for sure that they got four 12" woofer units and so on, but they are high sensitive and stable in impedance, never down to 3 Ohms, what implies that they really don't need such a power to move them properly. I've listened to these speakers with valve-integrated amps with about 50W/8 Ohms and dynamics and volume were more than right in a normal living room.

I drive them with an ELECTROCOMPANIET AW 250DMB power amp as shown in the pic above (380W/4 Ohms). It is recommended to bi/tri wire them, but that's really senseless. Another interesting point would be bi/tri amping, but it all depends on how big your room is. I think that a 200W/8 Ohms power amp is OK for a normal or even large living room (remember that this power goes beyond, 'cause speakers are rated 4 Ohms globally).

I think the most important with such monsters is equalization. Yes, EQ. Check the way they sounded in my place before EQ:

(All measures are done from my sofa, 3 meters away from the speakers)

Left speaker before EQ:



Right speaker before EQ:




It's easy to check that low frequencies blocked mids and high frequencies out. That sound had impact, but lacked in accuracy. After treating both impact of speakers and feedback from the salon, here you got the measures I enjoyed this last year and a half:


Left speaker after EQ:



Right speaker after EQ:



I think that's more important than powerness! Since I used the DRC (digital room correction), it gets part in the set up.

[Grompa]

Hi Jorgitox,
Thank you for your fast an detailed answer. It's interesting to hear that such speakers can be driven with valve or tube amps, it would definitely be worth to give it a try. The size of my room is similar to yours, even a bit smaller.
Regarding the Electrocompaniet, it's already some heavy stuff, The Linn Klout I have delivers a power output of 160 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms. Not very relevant but below a link to an internet page showing some reviews about the Klout -> http://www.audioreview.com/cat/ampli...9_1583crx.aspx
I guess a good option would be to buy a second Klout, in my opinion they should be powerful enough to drive the Matrix 800. What do you think? As for a lot of things nowadays, it's always a question of budget.
Regarding the graphs, very interesting, thanks for adding these. I'm not really into the technical aspect but it really shows the difference before an after the change. It would be interesting for me to be able to listen to the difference before and after but this is a step I will probably have to go through myself.
I will have a look on the internet on my side but could you tell me which equipment you used for the measurements (soft and hardware)?
To finish and even if some people don't share this opinion with me, the 800 looks so great, still today. Congratulations for your exclusive system.
Thank you again for your precious feedback, kind regards,
Grompa

[Antonkk]

Can somebody explained why B&W gave up on these monsters in the later line ups? I mean there are always lots of audiophiles with big rooms who long for the speakers to end all speakers!

[Jorgitox]

Hi Jorgitox,
Thank you for your fast and detailed answer. It's interesting to hear that such speakers can be driven with valve or tube amps, it would definitely be worth to give it a try. The size of my room is similar to yours, even a bit smaller.

You’re very welcome, Grompa. It’s always nice for me taking a while on these totems. According to my room’s size, it’s about 20m2, which means very small without EQ and perfectly correct if you’re using it.

Regarding the Electrocompaniet, it's already some heavy stuff, The Linn Klout I have delivers a power output of 160 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms. Not very relevant but below a link to an internet page showing some reviews about the Klout -> http://www.audioreview.com/cat/ampli...9_1583crx.aspx
I guess a good option would be to buy a second Klout, in my opinion they should be powerful enough to drive the Matrix 800. What do you think? As for a lot of things nowadays, it's always a question of budget.

A second unit could be OK (they swallow as much as you decide to add), what's the point in trying to say the opposite? But it all depends on your needs of “punch”. Try one unit at first and if you feel you need extra feed, go for a second unit. And yes, you’re right.. budget always take the lead

Regarding the graphs, very interesting, thanks for adding these. I'm not really into the technical aspect but it really shows the difference before an after the change. It would be interesting for me to be able to listen to the difference before and after but this is a step I will probably have to go through myself.

The flatter the line is, the better. If you check the graph from left to right in the ones without EQ, you’ll appreciate that mountains on the left are higher and steeper than the ones taking the road to the right. Left graphs show you the response of lows in the room (well, it shows the response in the place the microphone is located, more or less in the listening point), that cover all mids and highs to the right and. Starting with EQ is not easy at first, but after two or three tries, it becomes easy as ABC. And yes, that’s something that needs a little bit of time and effort.

I will have a look on the internet on my side but could you tell me which equipment you used for the measurements (soft and hardware)?

Of course! Take note of the following:

SOFTWARE:

DRCoP (that means Digital Room Correction on Pendrive). This software is freeware. You can register to this Spanish forum and ask whatever you need. Although mainly people type in Spanish, you can try in English. This will not be a problem at all.

HARDWARE:

Laptop/notebook (go for the cheapest and the smaller! It would be preferable with flash memory in instead of 2,5” noisy hard drives).

Behringer ECM8000 microphone (it’s cheap and works terrific! It’s highly regarded in the pro world).

External sound card (the EDIROL UA25 is a fantastic option, with 0 noise if balanced connected).

Balanced cable as long as the distance you got from sound card to the microphone (the micro should be positioned in the listening point).

If you go ahead with it and need assistance, here you got a friend. With somebody to the other side, measures and EQ will be so easy.

To finish and even if some people don't share this opinion with me, the 800 looks so great, still today.

I think the same, Grompa. They look different than the rest and build quality is fantastic. When I look at them I realize that if manufacturers think of releasing a model like this, they will go beyond $40,000 in today’s money. And the sound quality they are capable to perform is absolutely first class before, today and tomorrow.

[Jorgitox]

Can somebody explained why B&W gave up on these monsters in the later line ups? I mean there are always lots of audiophiles with big rooms who long for the speakers to end all speakers!

You can find several models in Wilson Audio, JMLabs and so on, but you have to pay a huge price. Manufacturers consider that such a monters are not as easy to sell than medium size speakers.

Matrix 800 were designed when John Bowers was still alive. After he passed away, B&W concept varied considerably. You can read some history by clicking this link

[Grompa]

Ola Jorgitox,
In the meantime I already found a second amplifier, I'll go to pick it up to Germany next week. I had a discussion with the local Linn dealer (as well B&W dealer) here in Luxembourg and he told me that a second one would be mandatory to be able to power the Matrix 800 let's say in an efficent way. As you say, these speakers take the power they get, there's absolutely no question.
Great, thx for the list with the equipment, it's a great help. In case I would have questions about it, I would of course get back to you, thanks for proposing so.
I will let you know about the progress in this matter in the coming weeks.
Thx again, best regards,
Grompa

[Grompa]

You can find several models in Wilson Audio, JMLabs and so on, but you have to pay a huge price. Manufacturers consider that such a monters are not as easy to sell than medium size speakers.

Matrix 800 were designed when John Bowers was still alive. After he passed away, B&W concept varied considerably. You can read some history by clicking this link

Below you can find an interesting site with some so called "Monsters"...

http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm

Have fun,
Grompa

[Jorgitox]

Ola Jorgitox,
In the meantime I already found a second amplifier, I'll go to pick it up to Germany next week. I had a discussion with the local Linn dealer (as well B&W dealer) here in Luxembourg and he told me that a second one would be mandatory to be able to power the Matrix 800 let's say in an efficent way. As you say, these speakers take the power they get, there's absolutely no question.

Fantastic! With a second unit, powerness is everything but a matter. Please, when you try your set up, let me know.

Great, thx for the list with the equipment, it's a great help. In case I would have questions about it, I would of course get back to you, thanks for proposing so.

Count with my little help on this.

[Pedro]

Fantastic thread. I dont know how would compare the M800 with the new 800Di or the big 801D (which costed the same as the M800). Probably the M800 should still the best B&W ever produced.

[Jorgitox]

Fantastic thread. I dont know how would compare the M800 with the new 800Di or the big 801D (which costed the same as the M800). Probably the M800 should still the best B&W ever produced.

Both 800's models or even both series (Matrix vs Nautilus) are not comparable at all. Concepts differ from day to night. The new Nautilus range excels on accuracy and sharpness, but maybe lacks on a warm global... easy listening experience. When I hear to Nautilus D's I enjoy clarity and definition, but when I listen to my 800M I hear to music and essence. That's maybe love, but this same thing happen to many people that I know and have compared both sounds. It's classic era versus modern age... It's up to you.

[Pedro]

Nice impression. I did hear the matrix for short periods, but i think the Diamonds could be a link between the matrix and nautilus series when talking about the music and warm side. From the all nautilus and Diamonds i heard the 801D is certainly the most musical. I didnt compare it with the M801 or M800, but it has the musicaly that even the 800D doesnt have. Real good flat response and never analytical even at high level sound.

[evp1312]

Jorgitox,

Sorry about my belated reply. I've never had the intention to sell these excellent loudspeakers.

[evp1312]

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