ASW750 or Velodyne DD-12?

[beden1]

I want to upgrade my sub woofer, and have an ASW-750 for my one set-up with 703's as the main speakers (have center channel but no surrounds). I like this sub as it seems to work well with both music and theater.

For my other home theater set-up (in another house), I wanted to upgrade my sub. My main speakers are much larger (ADS 910's), and I have full surround speakers (2 sets), along with center channel in this room.

A dealer said that the Velodyne DD-12 was a much better sub for theater and music than the B&W ASW-750. It's tough to tell in their studios as to how it would sound in my home. The Velodyne seemed to have more punch, however.

Has anyone had experience comparing these subs, or with the Velodyne DD-12?

[ac81017]

I have the asw750, and it wokrs like a dream for both HT and music. I have a friend who a DD12, and it´s a really nice sub, apart from that fact I found it bit to punchy! And not as much bass tone with both music and HT.

He has moved it around about just to see if he could fool the auto set mic, it sounded good where ever you placed it! But still to punchy for my taste!

Maybe you should think about the ASW855?? the asw855 has a bit more punch and slam than the asw750, and it keeps everything else in balance. I find that some subs can boom to much, or like my friend, he plays as loud as possible, yeah, sure, the whole house starts to shake, and with alll that noise and booming :bash: , you can´t here the vocals nice and clearly.

ASW750 X 2
or a ASW 855 might be something for you? :T

[beden1]

I have the asw750, and it wokrs like a dream for both HT and music. ASW750 X 2
or a ASW 855 might be something for you? :T

Or, then again . . . having two ASW750's is probably very nice.

I will check into the ASW855, and like you said, the 750 does work very well with both music and HT. The only concern that I have, is that this room needing the upgraded sub, is not as brite as the room where I have the 750. I was thinking I may need more punch, but like you, I'm not real interested in the sub dominating all else . . . and shaking the house is not one of my goals in life either.

Thanks for your help.

[ZX10 Guy]

I'm going to go counter to what many people here seem to do which is consistently recommend the B&W subs. The DD12 is going to provide the greatest amount of flexibility for you to tune the sub correctly within your room's characteristics. I didn't know how dramatic the DD equalization was till I got my DD18 and SMS-1 units.

As far as punchy, it's up to you to eq and tailor the sound to your liking. The DD18 in my system is far from punchy or boomy. The integration of the sub within the system is extremely seemless with my B&Ws.

[beden1]

I'm going to go counter to what many people here seem to do which is consistently recommend the B&W subs. The DD12 is going to provide the greatest amount of flexibility for you to tune the sub correctly within your room's characteristics. I didn't know how dramatic the DD equalization was till I got my DD18 and SMS-1 units.

As far as punchy, it's up to you to eq and tailor the sound to your liking. The DD18 in my system is far from punchy or boomy. The integration of the sub within the system is extremely seemless with my B&Ws.

I am intrigued by the Velodyne's ability to calibrate/equalize with the system, and I appreciate your help. The room it will be in, is 32' by 16' with a cathedral ceiling. This family room is full of furniture, and as a result, it is not as lively accoustically as another room that I have with 24' celing and 36' by 18', and less furniture with only an area rug and stone floors.

So, I am looking for presense out of this sub woofer. My other question is with the size of a sub. I have the ASW750 with the 12" woofer in my more lively accoustic room, and I am happy with it's performance in this room. In the room where I am upgrading the sub, is a 12" woofer enough in the DD-12, or is there a marked difference in moving up to a 15" or 18"? And by going larger, does it start to take away from being a good musical sub?

[ZX10 Guy]

I am intrigued by the Velodyne's ability to calibrate/equalize with the system, and I appreciate your help. The room it will be in, is 32' by 16' with a cathedral ceiling. This family room is full of furniture, and as a result, it is not as lively accoustically as another room that I have with 24' celing and 36' by 18', and less furniture with only an area rug and stone floors.

So, I am looking for presense out of this sub woofer. My other question is with the size of a sub. I have the ASW750 with the 12" woofer in my more lively accoustic room, and I am happy with it's performance in this room. In the room where I am upgrading the sub, is a 12" woofer enough in the DD-12, or is there a marked difference in moving up to a 15" or 18"? And by going larger, does it start to take away from being a good musical sub?

You have some pretty large rooms there. Velodyne actually has a sub recommender on their site which tells you what they recommend as the appropriate sized sub based on your room dimensions.

I have a DD18 and an HGS15 in my sound room that measures 16'x21'x8'. The DD18 is my all the time sub. The HGS15 only comes online when I'm watching movies with LFE. I can tell you from personal experience that a larger sub is not slower than a smaller sub. As a basis for comparison, I had a HGS12 in this system before the DD18 came in to play. I've since moved the HGS12 up to my 2 channel system. The name of the game here for you is to generate sound pressure by moving as much air as needed based on the total volume of air in your room. The larger the cone diameter, the less the driver has to move to create the air pressure needed. Remember, the more a driver cone moves, especially if the cone excursion is near it's practical operating limits, the more distortion you'll get as the cone movement now becomes non-linear.

Also you have to consider this. Does this new room also open up to other areas of your house. If it does, you'll have to take that extra space into account.

[chinets]

ASW 750 for sure!!!

Now if you want a fuller and smoother tight bass, I recommend the ASW 825 or even better the ASW 855!! I have 2 ASW 855 ,and that to me is bass heaven In HT and Music whether Multichannel or Stereo!!!

I trust B&W, and they make super subs for Audiophile listening, which are remarkable!!!!

Keep us posted!!

Cheers

[style]

sub

same at chinets = B&W750
i have the "new" PV1 tested and i really very good (1. 750 - 2. pv1 - 3. 675)

Velodyne in europe is too expensive (dd serie spec.)

2 x B&W675 or 2x Velodyne SPL1000R is a good solution but sure better one only sub in place "2 small"

Style


(my set_ B&W703 l/r - htm7 center - cdm7nt rear - 601s3 back - 750 sub)

[Jesse111]

The punch you heard with the Velodyne is completely dependant on the adjustment software. It is very flexible and you can add punch that may give the WOW factor at first but may be fatiguing after several minutes of listening time.

But one thing for sure, the Velodyne can easily be tuned to your room. I had the 18's but found them to be way too big for me. They broke down the sound stage and imaging. I'm in the process now of looking for a new sub system.

[beden1]

The punch you heard with the Velodyne is completely dependant on the adjustment software. It is very flexible and you can add punch that may give the WOW factor at first but may be fatiguing after several minutes of listening time.

But one thing for sure, the Velodyne can easily be tuned to your room. I had the 18's but found them to be way too big for me. They broke down the sound stage and imaging. I'm in the process now of looking for a new sub system.

I just returned from listening to another demonstration of the Velodyne DD-12, and we played with the calibration software. I agree that the adjustment capabilities of this sub are really good, and these options are what IMO make this sub the viable choice. I currently have a Mirage 150 sub that I bought several years ago, thinking I only needed to add a bit of low end definition in support of my massive ADS Reference 910s main speakers. Since then however, I have heard the strong benefits a quality sub can produce in enhancing the total sound system.

I did the calculation on Velodyne's site, and it said I should need a DD-15 or DD-18 for optimal output to room volume. But, these subs are real pricey, especially if going through an authorized dealer. So at the store, we hooked up a comparable sub to my Mirage, along with the Velodyne DD-12. The DD-12 in the front, and the Mirage clone in the rear. This set-up is what has me very pleased with the selection of the DD-12 over it's larger and more expensive counterparts. Bottom line, is after calibrating the two subs, the sound was very full and balanced.

If after listening to the calibrated system for a while in my room setting, I figure that I can have the flexibility to always add another sub in case my gaining experience hears shortfalls. I could add a B&W 750 dedicated to music, and use both for HT, or add another DD-12. Time will tell, but this is what makes the audiophile hobby so interesting.

Thanks to all who helped me with my decision to upgrade my sub woofer. :T

[junior77blue]

You can always add the Velodyne SMS-1 to any sub of your liking for calibration.

[ZX10 Guy]

You can always add the Velodyne SMS-1 to any sub of your liking for calibration.

Yep. And for the most part you'll get the majority of the functionality compared to the DD series. The one item that you won't get is the ability to have the DSP engine receive feedback from the servo circuit of a sub equipped with one.

[ac81017]

Maybe i´m a bit old fashioned, but I´m getting tired with all the latest tweaks and gadgits, such as a calibration for the digital surround amp, and now for the sub! Can´t things be plain and simple. I didn´t get the DD12 because i think the calibration idea is a bit over the top, nice idea though! that´s why i ended up with the ASW750! you place it where you want it, plug it in and away you go! I have a friend who has a problem, he can´t calibrate both surround amp and sub, the result was different if you calibrated the amp to the sub, the sub sounded very dry, and then he calibrated just the sub, and it sounded to harsh and wrong. So just for fun we carried my sub to his place and plugged it in with no calibration on his amp! Woow, it sounded great!

[beden1]

Maybe i´m a bit old fashioned, but I´m getting tired with all the latest tweaks and gadgits, such as a calibration for the digital surround amp, and now for the sub! Can´t things be plain and simple. I didn´t get the DD12 because i think the calibration idea is a bit over the top, nice idea though! that´s why i ended up with the ASW750! you place it where you want it, plug it in and away you go! I have a friend who has a problem, he can´t calibrate both surround amp and sub, the result was different if you calibrated the amp to the sub, the sub sounded very dry, and then he calibrated just the sub, and it sounded to harsh and wrong. So just for fun we carried my sub to his place and plugged it in with no calibration on his amp! Woow, it sounded great!

My first impression was the same as yours. I have an ASW 750 in my other set-up and it was basically plug and play, along with having the receiver do it's calibration with the microphone setup. With this other room however, it is a more complicated situation in a room that is not lacking in accoustics, but is not as brite as the other room.

I think I like the idea of being able to use the Velodyne calibration in this particular situation. The other thing that has me thinking, is how much better could my ASW 750 sound with the same tools?

I did read in a forum about setting up the Velodyne sub. One of the things it says, is to not defeat the receiver's calibration, but to use it along with the Velodyne's. Your friend may want to try this. Here is the link to the article.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/VelodyneSMS1p1.php

[ZX10 Guy]

Maybe i´m a bit old fashioned, but I´m getting tired with all the latest tweaks and gadgits, such as a calibration for the digital surround amp, and now for the sub! Can´t things be plain and simple. I didn´t get the DD12 because i think the calibration idea is a bit over the top, nice idea though! that´s why i ended up with the ASW750! you place it where you want it, plug it in and away you go! I have a friend who has a problem, he can´t calibrate both surround amp and sub, the result was different if you calibrated the amp to the sub, the sub sounded very dry, and then he calibrated just the sub, and it sounded to harsh and wrong. So just for fun we carried my sub to his place and plugged it in with no calibration on his amp! Woow, it sounded great!

To each his own I guess. If you ever get the chance to play with the DD series sub or an SMS-1, you'll never go back. It just takes all the guess work and voodoo out of proper sub set up in a room. In my opinion, it's easier than the other alternative to get proper set up of a sub which is to use a parametric equalizer like a Behringer and a RTA. You see immediately what your in room response is. Can't see why anyone wouldn't see this as an advantage. And if you don't want to play around with the sub settings, you can invoke the auto EQ function and be up and running in a couple of minutes.

[Pookie007]

I purchased a DD-12 and love it. I did a in house comparison between the DD-12, B&W, and Martin Logan Descent. The room EQ is really nice. It may have made the difference in my comparison. It is possible the B&W and ML are better subs, but I think the correct set up allows me to realize a better result.

[akhter]

I want to upgrade my sub woofer, and have an ASW-750 for my one set-up with 703's as the main speakers (have center channel but no surrounds). I like this sub as it seems to work well with both music and theater.

For my other home theater set-up (in another house), I wanted to upgrade my sub. My main speakers are much larger (ADS 910's), and I have full surround speakers (2 sets), along with center channel in this room.

A dealer said that the Velodyne DD-12 was a much better sub for theater and music than the B&W ASW-750. It's tough to tell in their studios as to how it would sound in my home. The Velodyne seemed to have more punch, however.

Has anyone had experience comparing these subs, or with the Velodyne DD-12?

As a proud owner of a DD12 (alongwith N804), I can tell you that it would be hard to find a better sub. I listened to REL and B&W subs, and honestly the DD software is just plain amazing (after a bit of tweaking). I get both the effortless deep thunder in movies as well as the tight bass with rock music. The DD12 complements my speakers very well.

[ZX10 Guy]

As a proud owner of a DD12 (alongwith N804), I can tell you that it would be hard to find a better sub. I listened to REL and B&W subs, and honestly the DD software is just plain amazing (after a bit of tweaking). I get both the effortless deep thunder in movies as well as the tight bass with rock music. The DD12 complements my speakers very well.

Not to mention the ease and flexibility of programming 5 presets to what sound profile you feel like. Watching an action movie and you want extra thunderous bass, no problem. I just hit the Action movie preset on the remote and it's done. Want to have a more subdued and smooth bass output while listening to my Jazz/Classical music, no problem. Again, I just hit the appropriate preset on the remote.

[gross30]

ZX10 GUY, You are so correct on the presets option, hit #3 for music, and hit #2 for ht. Thats pretty user friendly. I have my DD 15's (2) volume set at 30 and its plenty for the room, and the volume goes to 99!! I have both subs and the 801's on sound anchor stands, and it sounds great, it took a bit with the volume to not drown out the 801's, but in the end it was easy. Anyway, my vote would be for the DD 12.

[dmensi]

Velodyne SPL1500

Just recently added a Velodyne SPL1500 to my HT system in a large room 16 x 21 with 20 ft ceilings and lots of open space. Could not afford the DD's at the time. The SPL1500 sounds great in the large space in fact the whole house shakes while watching action sequences in movies. Would like to compare the DD's performance to my SPL1500 at some point in time.

[Angioguy]

I originally listened to B&W subwoofers to complement a pair of 803S's that just seemed to be lacking in the bass department. I found the DD-12 to integrate well with these speakers, both for music and HT. Then I upgraded to the 802D's... the DD-12 blends seemlessly with the sound of the 803's big brother-- really, with room correction capabilities, a match made in heaven! :T