The end of the road? - Philosophical

[fauzigarib]

I'm sure this thread is going to get moved, but it's kind of relevant to B&W so here goes:

Is this all worth it?
I've been spending the past few months thinking (read: obsessing) about buying B&W. I've been through a ton of options, and have taken a whole bunch of advice from this forum, along with other sites as well.

Step back a few years, I obsessess just as much when it came to buying my current Klipschorn setup. Forums, BB's, advice, information, research, used, new, pres, pros, pros, cons... Did the drill for a full year and a half before jumping into a setup that I just absolutely adored. I still do.

Now all of a sudden, I'm thinking about abondoning it, not to mention spend a ton more money and get a set of either 802D's or N801's, with appropriate amplification. Now, all of a sudden, I find myself in the same routine that I was in when I was Klipsch-hunting! This time it's a little different, because before even ever having heard what the speakers sounded like, I invested in a plane ticket to go audition the speakers (the Pakistan agent is in Lahore, I'm in Karachi, a 2.5 hours plane ride away).

So now I'm thinking, if I've done it before and am doing it again, will it ever end? The answer is probably no. Because I know that once they're installed, the amplification will all of a sudden not be enough. Then, I'll realize that man, oh man, how nice mono blocks would be. Of course, once the mono blocks are in place, I'll think the speakers, gorgeous as they sound, might extend just a tad bit lower were it for a subwoofer in the middle. Then two subs. Meanwhile, of course, we've not only spent $20,000 but also heard about how every single one of those twenty thousand dollars could have bought the wife something.

I guess what I'm saying goes beyond the simple ugraditis that we all suffer. I think what I'm contemplating is this: that evasive target of audio nirvana that we are all hunting... is it really there? Are we shooting at a moving target that is simply not there?

If so, is it worth it? The amount and level of satisfaction that I derived from my Khorn setup the FIRST time I heard it once it was setup in my room is equalled, if not exceeded even today. But I'm still itching to change. B&W holds a special "want-to-and-must-have" place in my heart.

Misterdoggy (sorry, your example is the first to come to mind, though I know there are others) wants to get 800D's after several months of owning 802D's, and already having gone through a few ML amplification solutions.

As humans, when we yearn for what's better out there, does it not take away from how you perceive / enjoy what you already have?

Just a rant which I'm sure hasn't arrived at a point... Just wondering if people can relate to what little blurry statements I've put down on paper here. Kant, Freud, Neitsche... anyone have any comments?

Regards,

Fauzi

[Karma]

HI fauzi,
Sure, I can relate to your concern. And I can also identify with it. The end, I believe, is when you finally have a system that can't be exceeded in your eyes and ears. I have reached that point with my main system of which we have spoken. In other words, I am satisfied.

The path to that point is winding and expensive. One assumes that audio technology continuously advances. It's not necessarily so. Occasionally, equipment becomes available that has magic that transcends technological advance. These become the classics. We must find and then buy those magic pieces.

A good example is my Martin Logan CLSIIA electrostatic speakers. They have been around for a number of years. I had owned other makes of stats before. They all had problems I couldn't live with. But they did teach me that stats had all the basic qualities I want in speakers. But not only did they have problems specific to the design, the electrostatic principle had limitations that no design could overcome.

My target became one of finding the best electrostatic design and finding a way around the basic limitations. I think I have accomplished that with the CLS IIA's. Martin Logan has introduced many newer models since the CLS's. Further, they do not make the CLS model anymore. Why???

I know Martin Logan's marketing manager and this is what he had to say:
The CLS's were too demanding on the owner, the room, and the amplifiers. Not enough people were willing to put the effort into the speakers to bring out their best. Consequently, sales were not high enough to justify continuation of the model.

He also said, and I concur, that the CLS IIA's and the later CLS IIZ's ARE the best speakers Martin Logan ever made. They have not been exceeded despite the fact of their age.

This is my point. Know what you want (this is the most important part). Have confidence in your self-understanding. Find that magic product if it exists. Surround it with great equipment that synergistically fits. Overcome the inevitable limitations if possible. Sit back and enjoy knowing that the end has been reached.

Sparky

[ShadowZA]

As Sparky says ...

Add a little psychology ... (as per Sparky's last paragraph) nurturing your self esteem, emotional intelligence and the guts to follow your passion in a responsible (financially & otherwise) manner.

Plus a little philosophy ... understanding that questions will always be there. Uncertainty is the burden of all thinking men and insight leads to a loss of importance and purpose. It could be that it is this very fact that makes liberty possible and life enjoyable. Knowing that philosophy cannot offer definite answers but it can train the mind to think and analyse. It can also offer multiple perspectives and deeper insights. How one uses these ‘gifts’ is up to every individual and it is this multiplicity of choice that sets apart the wise man from the mediocrity. Some may choose to use the power of heightened awareness for hedonistic purposes, others for adventure or for the search of knowledge or for exploration and introspection. The world is a playground full of pleasure and pain, misery and ecstasy full of wonder and dullness. Enjoy it as it is, accept it and yourself as you are. Take advantage of the opportunity where there are no winners or losers just experiences. Be careful though ... philosophical sensitivity can be the companion of mental hypersensitivity. This is why most intelligent men suffer from bouts of depression and are the first to dismiss life as irrelevant and meaningless. But when one learns not to take existence too seriously and oneself as not too relevant then the distance gained coupled with the previously mentioned hypersensitivity can make life much more enjoyable and wondrous than that of an idiot living in ignorant bliss.

Now, Fauzi ... go grab your piggy bank ... break open & go get a few new great cds. Then ... put them in your player, grab a seat in your best chair & enjoy your passion. That's what it's all about ... the music. :T

[sg2]

Hi,

I guess it is all down to this : whatever the substrate (automobile, photo, bike, whatever), one needs a compulsive passion that he once in a while satisfies with an expensive purchase (expensive is important, as cheap would not generate the same amount of good wait & ponder).

The time taken to ponder, evaluate, read, think etc. is, all in all, a good way to keep your brain busy on something positive

Regards,
--
Stéphane

[fauzigarib]

Wow!

Hey guys,

I have to say, I love it when an idea, however vaguely put, can be understood by like-minded people. Really puts a nice homey touch to the whole issue!

Shadow, Sparky, SG, all your ideas are absolutely down the right path... and precisely what I had been telling myself over the course of the past few weeks. I think what Shadow said about pulling out a bunch of your favorite cds, and pulling up a comfortable chair... well, I think there are very few things in my life that are as perfect as that, provided the lights are just right, and the right single malt is in my hand!

But certain recent developments have let me to start thinking just a tad bit more: (I said thinking, not reconsidering, so relax! )

We recently had a WONDERFUL baby girl, Alina who just turned 4 months a couple days ago. I've spent a ton of money and time and effort, colored with blood, tainted with sweat, and drenched with tears in my system... and I LOVE the way it sounds.

But I find that there is no sound quite like Alina's burp over my shoulder, or the slight gurgle behind her toothless gaping grin... or when she wakes up at 5:45 in the morning and starts quietly talking to the little stuffed elephant hanging off hte side of her crib!

You see, don't get me wrong. I don't think fatherhood is the be-all-end-all of existence as I knew it.. not even close. In fact, I find that my wife and I are more active now, perhaps than we ever were.

But I'm realizing that perhaps that things that I used to fret over, day and night... well, they're starting to lost just a tad bit of their importance in my life.

But I still want those darn 802D's!

LOL! Anyone else go through this sort of feeling?

Or am I just strange?

-Fauzi

[Arneson]

Hi,

I guess it is all down to this (automobile, photo, bike, whatever)

The time taken to ponder, evaluate, read, think etc. is, all in all, a good way to keep your brain busy on something positive

I'd like to add Yachts to the list.
Putting electronics on an 85" Uniesse (Italian), I overheard the owner say
"this would be the day boat when the 110 footer comes over".

I say, Step right up folks, It's bigger, It's better, It goes further, It slices, It dices, and you just have to get It now..whatever "It" may be.

[misterdoggy]

Fauzi,

You mentioned me by name and I am Mr UPGRADTIS. My problem is that I live in a remote part of France (not as remote as you) and depend on reviews and advice from others.

To this point I have bought and sold many different things on my way to where Im going.

I've made mistakes and learned a lot.

I've lost a little bit of $$ in doing so, but found great deals to make up for it. Maybe if I knew when I started that 800D's was my destiny I would have gone right for it.

But man is like that. You don't see it then, that the next few steps up the stairway, will take a few steps up to see a new view further along.

Kids are the supreme reason for man to be here. to reproduce and fulfill the natural instinct within 'most' of us. the Joy of your newborn will surpass the joy of your HiFi.

But should you get those 802D's......

For me the question is not monetary, but what the wife will let me do. This is a different situation. I think many who own 800D's are financially solid and would have to be so to afford $20,000 pair of speakers.

So if you can afford what your passion is, go ahead, because if its not HiFi, then its a mistress, or a boat, or a car......

Unless like my wife is trying to show me..... I don't need anything material what so ever to be really happy. Its all just short term "fixes" for a deeper yearning.

Im not there yet don't worry.....

[ShadowZA]

We recently had a WONDERFUL baby girl, Alina who just turned 4 months a couple days ago. I've spent a ton of money and time and effort, colored with blood, tainted with sweat, and drenched with tears in my system... and I LOVE the way it sounds.

But I find that there is no sound quite like Alina's burp over my shoulder, or the slight gurgle behind her toothless gaping grin... or when she wakes up at 5:45 in the morning and starts quietly talking to the little stuffed elephant hanging off hte side of her crib!

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter Alina, Fauzi :T

The best thing in the world to me is my little Shadow (our daughter, Leanne who is 8 years old). The young years are tough ... but if you can capture (photograph) and enjoy as many moments as possible ... you'll build up a record of great memories worth revisiting over & over. Enjoy them ... enjoy the experiences ... take time out where possible ... don't give up on your dreams (802D's, 800D's) ... for this is the road of life.

[RobP]

Fauzi, congrats on your gift Alina. :T

[fauzigarib]

Hmmm...

So if you can afford what your passion is, go ahead, because if its not HiFi, then its a mistress, or a boat, or a car......

Misterdoggy,

All I can say after reading your response is this: Man, you DO NOT need anyone to help you come up with excuses, as we did in that thread a few days ago.... I think you're doing just fine on your own!!!

A mistress!!!

I can just imagine that conversation with my wife. "Honey, be thankful that I just spent 20,000 on a pair of speakers! I could be having an affair instead!"

Keeping that one stored away for a rainy day!!! Thanks!

Fauzi

[fauzigarib]

Thanks folks!

Shadow, Gravy,

Thanks a lot for your kind wishes!

Since I'm B&W addressing this to B&W a moderator of B&W this forum, I'm going to B&W have to put the letters B&W in often enough to B&W let him think that this B&W post is actually about B&W! 8O

Actually, aside from the changing priorities bit that I mentioned, I thought about the "elusive goal" business for a while last night. And I realized that this journey can go on for as long as it wants... it's irrelevant. Because the difference between this and "shooting at a target that just isn't there" is that this journey does not get frustrating.

Yes, there's a lot of wanting more and what if I tweak this and pinch that, but it's more fun than anything else. I think Misterdoggy hit the nail on the head when he posted the first post that I read on this forum warning us to beware of Snake Oil. His honesty in that thread, where he admitted to spending tons of money on something and just not getting the expected result... well, that, in my mind really exemplifies what this journey is all about. Amidst the intermittent disappointment there are hours and hours of learning and joy!

Oh, and as for Alina! She's already a B&W fan.. just doesn't know it yet. The minute they come into the house (whenever I finalize my purchase, that is) she will be spending hours listening to my entire jazz collection rather than watching cartoons. Also going to expose her to classical music so that she can it to me when she grows older!

How's that for plans for the newborn!

Regards and Happy Listening!

Fauzi