What affects soundstage height??

[tboooe]

Hi, I am not too satisfied with the height of my soundstage (802d). Currently, everything seems to orginate from a position that is roughly at the same height as my speakers. This does not give me the impression of listening to musicians on a stage. When I listened to my speakers at the dealer, the sound seemed like it was coming from 2-3 ft above the speakers so I know my speakers are capable of this.

I am curious if anyone can let me know what variables affect the soundstage height (i.e. amps, room, preamp, etc).

Thank you...

[Kal Rubinson]

It's the room and the source. I can switch recordings and hear the change in vertical position, so it is not a consistent speaker feature (although the inability to do this is likely a speaker feature :roll: ).

Kal

[misterdoggy]

Mine are dead center about top of the speaker height

[WI Rotel]

A little tilt goes a long way. Although they are floor standers, a slight rear tilt will do wonders to the soundstage height. It will also slightly de-emphasize the bass slightly. Well worth a try.

[tboooe]

Thanks everyone! Kal, I am currently using a Cary 306 sacd. It is only a week old so maybe it is not broken in but you think it can contribute to this? As for the room, what aspect do you think is causing this (1st reflection points on the ceiling? on the side walls? etc)

WI Rotel: I have heard about people doing this. I was going to try this last night but was too tired and lazy (those 802d are HEAVY). I will fiddle around with it by placing some extra floor tiles I have laying around under the front.

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks everyone! Kal, I am currently using a Cary 306 sacd. It is only a week old so maybe it is not broken in but you think it can contribute to this? As for the room, what aspect do you think is causing this (1st reflection points on the ceiling? on the side walls? etc)

Could be the ceiling but I doubt if it is the player.

Kal

[Jesse111]

I hope my 2 channel passion can help you here.

Kal is correct on his point regarding source production. The height of stage depends a great deal on the recording. There are differences between recordings. Most are where they should be but a few are produced too low.

This is how I change stage height in my room.

It is simply a combination of speaker seperation and toe in. I never got very favorable results from speaker tilt. Personally I would not recomment that.

That is one of the things I spend the most time on, getting the stage at the proper height. I have the room to play with distances so that helps. Be sure the recording you are using actually has a well produced soundstage. You may need to use a few to confirm that at least one is produced correctly.

Play with the toe in. If my speakers are too close and I toe them in, the stage will drop to the floor. If my speakers must be close together, then well off axis is necessary.

Work with speaker seperation distant and toe-in, combining different placements. You will find the perfect placement to give you what your looking for in time. Less toe in "usually" will raise the stage. My 800D's are 12.5 feet apart at the tweeters. Toe-in position for left speaker is directly at my left ear and right speaker to right ear. The distance between my speakers allows for this on axis position (in my room) straight at my ears for incredibly realistic stage and imaging. My stage ranges from dead center with low stage produced recordings to 3 feet above those beautiful Marlan heads. Most all recordings however are 2-3 feet above presenting a perfect stage for my taste. Your speakers will do it. It's a matter of blending them with your room and sitting position.

[tboooe]

Jesse111: thanks for the reply. Right now my speakers are 7 ft apart (I cant do much more than that). It seems to me you are using a lot of toe in to have the tweeters pointed at your ears! I have the tweeters pointed somewhere 6ft behind me. So relative to what you have done do you suggest more or less toe in?

thanks again

[Jesse111]

Jesse111: thanks for the reply. Right now my speakers are 7 ft apart (I cant do much more than that). It seems to me you are using a lot of toe in to have the tweeters pointed at your ears! I have the tweeters pointed somewhere 6ft behind me. So relative to what you have done do you suggest more or less toe in?

thanks again

In my room, if the speakers were that close together I'd have to point them almost straight out with only the slightest bit of toe-in. Very little toe-in almost square with the back wall. Try that first. You may lose the slightest bit of imaging but with them that close together it should not be much if any.

Additionally, I also found that moving the speakers closer to the back wall also sometimes increased stage height. Magnepan are very sensitive in that area. You may lose a bit of the allusion of depth by backing them closer to the wall but it is worth the trade off for the higher stage if in fact it helps. Try one or both of these suggestions and let me know how it goes.

[jayhawk75]

i ran into the same problem. with same recordings and side by side i prefered the 803d to the 802d and the only reason i and the dealer could come up with is the 803 is taller than the 802. now as far as detail the 802 wins but as far as a stage the 803 wins. in a previous thread i asked others if they had the same listening problem and built risers for the 802 to get the same stage like sound. i didnt get much of a reply except for one person that was at a dealer that put the 802d on a stage. i would look at raising the 802 rather than tilting unless you are standing while listening. side issue: at only 7 feet apart i would be looking at no toe or toe out but you didnt give your listening distance.

[tboooe]

Thanks everyone...I can sit anywhere from 0 ft away to 16 ft away. Normally I prefer 10-11ft away. At this distance do you suggest toe in at all?

[Jesse111]

Thanks everyone...I can sit anywhere from 0 ft away to 16 ft away. Normally I prefer 10-11ft away. At this distance do you suggest toe in at all?

If your speakers are only 7 feet apart, 10-11 feet may be too far away. It depends alot on your room but I would try sitting 7 feet from the plane of the front of the speakers. With no or very little toe-in. You should be in a near field type listening postion at this point and the stage should be at or above tweeter height. If not, move closer and also adjust the toe-in either in or out to see if anything changes. Move back a few inches at a time and see how it goes. Adjusting toe-in along with seating position in an experimentation fashion.

By god we're going to get your soundstage up one way or the other. I'm going to listen to some Tool 10,000 days for a bit then I'll check back later.

[tboooe]

Jesse111, I appreciate your enthusiam and assistance in helping me get it up....did I really write that??? :frypan:

[Jesse111]

Jesse111, I appreciate your enthusiam and assistance in helping me get it up....did I really write that??? :frypan:

Keep us posted on your findings.

[tboooe]

OK, I fiddled around all night with toe in and listening position here is what I have determined in my room:
Toe in does not have much affect on soundstage height.
I prefer almost no toe in as it greatly increases the soundstage width and separation between instruments.
The biggest impact on soundstage height is listening position. As Jesse111 suggested I moved my listening position to about 7ft from my speakers forming an equilateral triangle. This increased the soundstage height by about 3 ft. Very pleasant.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I am convinced my issue has to do with room treatments (or rather the lack thereof). I am going to investing in a variety of products soon (Eight Nerve, Echo Busters, RealTraps). Hope this helps.

Thanks again!

[Jesse111]

Dr. 2 channel on call 24/7. :T