BW XT Series Rock

[WI Rotel]

I have noticed that there still aren't many reviews about BW XT series.
Here is my one mth expirience with my RMB 1095 and RSP 1068 combo (also new).

Simply awe inspiring ;x(

I had originally purchased the Xt's with a 1067 reciever, to my dismay rotel's highly vaunted receiver, simply couldn't drive the XT4's to enthusiast levels. It would overheat and switch off, it also had quite a bit of hum. Undeterred and otherwise happy with the Rotel sound and video capabilities, I ordered the 1095/1068 plus I ordered a second PV1 sub since a single one wasn't cutting it in our sizable rec room.
The result was simply amazing. The XT4's eat the 1095's power like candy and in return provide some of the most detailed unerring audio reproduction I have ever expirienced. The PV1s complement the xt4's in a completely transparent musical fashion that gives the system and overall bass output and response that has nothing to envy BW's 802s. (okay maybe a little )
I took a little time today and listened to my old TUSK cd (IMO, sonically, one of the best rock and roll audio recordings of all time) using 5 channel stereo DSP and fell in love with audio all over again! The voices, the instrumentalizations absolutely everything was true to life. It was as if Stevie and her gang were right there in my rec room :cry:
Last week it was video time, the Return of the King's battle rendering was simply spectacular, going to the theater has now been totally ruined for me :E . BTW the XTC and XT2 are also flawless as surround speakers. I certainly cannot vouch for them if coupled with other mains, but my guess is few people would want to combine them with other speakers due to the contrasting visual design they would probably look atrocius if mixed with wooden cabinet speakers. I must also compliment the visual esthetics of the XT series, they are simply stunning to look at. We have a Lloyd Wright inspired home where they compliment the decor as if Frank had a hand in the design!
In sum I have to wholeheartedly give BW's XT series an enthusiastic 2 thumbs up for Rotels as transducers for Rotels big papa RMB 1095, certainly a match made by the gods of music. Bachus would have definitely enjoyed dancing to the beat of this amazing sonic combination ;b>

[Ade]

As I mentioned in another thread, I found them to be extremely harsh and unrefined. Yes, I was surprised too considering the price is the same as the 805's without stands and not that far off the price 703.

They do look very pretty though, especially in black. Pity about the sound.

[WI Rotel]

As I mentioned in another thread, I found them to be extremely harsh and unrefined. Yes, I was surprised too considering the price is the same as the 805's without stands and not that far off the price 703.

They do look very pretty though, especially in black. Pity about the sound.

Give your other post a check.
The XT4 by itself cannot compete with the trully big dogs. Only when paired with the PV1 can they be compared and come out fairly even. Yes, including the subs it does get pricey (around $6K) but as you well put they do look splendid! Personally for my application the look was crucial but the sound was the deciding factor. When I first started with one sub I instantly knew something was definitively missing, the addition of the second sub to the ohter side of the room (30x20) completely resolved any misgivings I could have. Another point for the XT4; It comes with 2 bungs (one for each port) if using only one, make sure you block th lower port the result is better midrange balance than if you block the upper port. Better yet, if possible set them 3 feet away from the wall and forget the bungs entirely.

The XT should be viewed as a system. The XT4 are fine by themselves but to trully shine the sub is a must.

[Ade]

No it wasn't anything to do with the base or lack of it, they just sounded really awful.

I was listening to a guy auditioning them, waiting my turn to audition some 703s and after he'd left I asked the sales guy if he thought they sounded awful - he said they were new and hadn't run in yet... Well, run in (burn in or whatever you want to call it) only occurs between your ears and those speakers would need a hell of a lot of burn in if you ask me. Seriously, they sounded broken to me.

But if you like the sound then good for you – that’s one of the truly subjective aspects of this hobby.

[WI Rotel]

No it wasn't anything to do with the base or lack of it, they just sounded really awful.

I was listening to a guy auditioning them, waiting my turn to audition some 703s and after he'd left I asked the sales guy if he thought they sounded awful - he said they were new and hadn't run in yet... Well, run in (burn in or whatever you want to call it) only occurs between your ears and those speakers would need a hell of a lot of burn in if you ask me. Seriously, they sounded broken to me.

But if you like the sound then good for you – that’s one of the truly subjective aspects of this hobby.

Again, something wasn't right! The sound of the XT is almost a dead ringer for the 703 (since they use all the same components for the exception of the woofers and the cabinet, of course) except for limited bass extesion. That was BW's entire aim when developing them. When I purchased them I did extensive AB comparisons between the 703, 803 and XT with and w/o the sub. Even w/o the sub the only difference was warmth that difference was completely eliminated with the sub. So equipped the XT was as or more "warm" and actually had superior and clearer bass and overall performance than the 7 series.

[musman]

test

[GregLett]

Ade,

Something was definitely wrong with the setup you heard. No they are not
the best in the world, But that are the best I've heard at that price. I'm
currently driving them with an old Rotel amp, tube pre and tube cd player
and they are great. I also had the pleasure of listening to them in my home
driven by Nu force ref9's and they are even better! The dealer I purchased them
from uses all Naim gear, and that's great! The problem with some dealers
is that they treat these speakers like they are not worthy of a great setup, so
depending on where you go you would never hear them at their best.

[Ade]

Ade,

Something was definitely wrong with the setup you heard. No they are not
the best in the world, But that are the best I've heard at that price. I'm
currently driving them with an old Rotel amp, tube pre and tube cd player
and they are great. I also had the pleasure of listening to them in my home
driven by Nu force ref9's and they are even better! The dealer I purchased them
from uses all Naim gear, and that's great! The problem with some dealers
is that they treat these speakers like they are not worthy of a great setup, so
depending on where you go you would never hear them at their best.

I fully accept that there could have been something off there but the way they had been set up looked fine to me and they even had a monster sized McIntosh driving them. Next time I'm in the vacinity of the showroom again I'll ask for a listen - maybe something will have changed.

[GregLett]

Sounds fair

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Check out this months Home Theater magazine. They review the XT system. It gets pretty good reviews.

One line says" the XT system's dynamic oomph was scaled back relative to what I'd get from brawnier B&W's like the 700 series, so sure: size does matter."

It also mentions that the "baby-ball" sub can't deliver the wallup of a big box bruiser, but its wickedly potent deep bass definition was spectactularly displayed with ever artillery blast.

I think that the system looks cool and very modern. I have not heard these so cannot comment on sound.
Steel

[jim777]

Something is has to be really really wrong with that setup. I have 703's with all mac electronics and the sound is sweet

However, the 703's DO need a lot of burn-in to get smooth and bass-extended. My dealer got new ones and I heard them new again with the same electronics as I use. His room was more "damped" than mine (that really isn't that much) and they still sounded harsh.

Go back in a few weeks :P

[Chris10]

One line says" the XT system's dynamic oomph was scaled back relative to what I'd get from brawnier B&W's like the 700 series, so sure: size does matter."

I compared 703 and XT4 side by side, and I agree with the above statement - the XT4s did lack something to my ears, especially when listening to more complex music, e.g. orchestral. Of course, they were not bad, but with a small price difference I chose the sound before the design. And the 703s are not especially ugly...

[GregLett]

One thing I noticed with the XT's, is that the amp really makes a difference.
They really like amps like the Nuforce.

[WI Rotel]

One thing I noticed with the XT's, is that the amp really makes a difference.
They really like amps like the Nuforce.

As I said above I agree wholeheartedly, they are definitely not for the weak of amp! As well said above they sound similar to the 703 but seem to lack something. I tried to describe it as "warmth" I guess a better description would be a lean lower midrange upper bass presence. My guess is that the slim cabinet limits those harmonics. The addition of the sub, IMO, fixes this fault, I set the crossover for the XT4's at 40Hz. I also have to agree that the PV1 is not terribly powerful, it is very small, so its no surprise, that's why I went with 2. In a smaller room 1 PV1 probably suffices.
Don't take me wrong I recognize this is not a "budget" system the whole shebang is around 7K but when well amplified, and set up, the sound is trully fabulous, the design has a small footprint and the looks are simply stunning.
If speaker looks are a priority for your home decor but you are loath to give up any sound you can't go wrong with the XT. Finally, speakers that offer B&O esthetics with high level BW sound!

[jim777]

The XT4 is 86dB efficient and the 703 is 90dB. I guess that explains why the XT4 needs more power but can still do so good given its size.

To get the same output, you will need 2.5x more power with the XT4 to get the same SPL (to account for that 4dB difference). Since the XT4 can only handle 150W, it would be like running 60W into my 703's. Since the 703's are rated at 200W, that means that they can play a lot louder, as loud as 500W into a XT4 if they could take it... (ok, thats funny)

So I didn't hear the XT4's, but in theory they sure must love power

[WI Rotel]

The XT4 is 86dB efficient and the 703 is 90dB. I guess that explains why the XT4 needs more power but can still do so good given its size.

To get the same output, you will need 2.5x more power with the XT4 to get the same SPL (to account for that 4dB difference). Since the XT4 can only handle 150W, it would be like running 60W into my 703's. Since the 703's are rated at 200W, that means that they can play a lot louder, as loud as 500W into a XT4 if they could take it... (ok, thats funny)

So I didn't hear the XT4's, but in theory they sure must love power

Hi fi news UK says that the 86 dB nominal is actually an optimistic number. One thing to remember the 150w figure is the recommended amplifier rating Don't take that as a maximum amplifier power, the more is always the better specially with inefficient speakers. I doen't mean you are going to be constantly cranking the volume it means the amp will have the necessary guts to drive the speakers w/o distorting when called for, regardless of overall volume level. Video can be especially demanding on an amp given its huge dynamic range (whispers to car crashes all in the same scene).

[GregLett]

I have to say I love the way my movies sound. I actually don't have a sub and I'm happy with the bass, I'm sure my room has alot to do with that.
I would have never looked at these speakers if it weren't for the high WAF.
I'm glad I did!

[jim777]

Hi fi news UK says that the 86 dB nominal is actually an optimistic number. One thing to remember the 150w figure is the recommended amplifier rating Don't take that as a maximum amplifier power, the more is always the better specially with inefficient speakers. I doen't mean you are going to be constantly cranking the volume it means the amp will have the necessary guts to drive the speakers w/o distorting when called for, regardless of overall volume level. Video can be especially demanding on an amp given its huge dynamic range (whispers to car crashes all in the same scene).

I agree 100%, sorry if I was not clear. I was just saying that you can't count on cranking a 500W amp to compensate

Thanks for adding the details.

[Ade]

Don't take that as a maximum amplifier power, the more is always the better specially with inefficient speakers.

Of course, if you're planning on listening to the things at low levels in a small room then all that extra power you paid for is just going to sit there unused so that generalization is a little too general don’t you think?

But as you like it loud here's an example for you; lets assume the worse possible case and they are even less efficient at 84dB/1w@1m in room (that really is very awful for any speaker these days), you want to play them at approx 92dB and you're going to be sitting 3m away.

The power you need would be 8w to get them up to 93dB@1m and you'd lose 6dB with every doubling of the distance taking it back down to 83dB, so taking it back up to 92dB again would require 64W - that's all with an 8ohm load of course. You still have a more than 3dB of constant headroom there with a 150W into 8 ohm amp and any amp worth mentioning has much more dynamic power capability on top of that for those large transient loads.

[WI Rotel]

Of course, if you're planning on listening to the things at low levels in a small room then all that extra power you paid for is just going to sit there unused so that generalization is a little too general don’t you think?

But as you like it loud here's an example for you; lets assume the worse possible case and they are even less efficient at 84dB/1w@1m in room (that really is very awful for any speaker these days), you want to play them at approx 92dB and you're going to be sitting 3m away.

The power you need would be 8w to get them up to 93dB@1m and you'd lose 6dB with every doubling of the distance taking it back down to 83dB, so taking it back up to 92dB again would require 64W - that's all with an 8ohm load of course. You still have a more than 3dB of constant headroom there with a 150W into 8 ohm amp and any amp worth mentioning has much more dynamic power capability on top of that for those large transient loads.

See ade there lies the rub to your thought. You are trying to Utilize RMS to measure instantaneous power. Most of the time an amplifier is putting along at 1 watt or less however music can have a dynamic range well over 100db from 1 second to the other from silence to the clang of a cymbal. Thus you are not talking about a difference of 3 db avg you are talking of a difference of 100dB instantaneous the "little amplifier that could" does not have enough current to meet the demand, therefore, instead of forming the required sinus wave it cuts the peak and clips. Clipping is the most harmful form of distortion. Since its instantaneous most amplifiers cannot protect against it since their protection is based on thermal level and it takes a few seconds of being overdriven before the protection circuit activates. So yes a 50 watts amp can drive any speaker to low levels but as the volume goes up the electrical demands increase exponentially. If your listening level is that low you might as well listen to AM radio though your car stereo.

[Ade]

See ade there lies the rub to your thought. You are trying to Utilize RMS to measure instantaneous power. Most of the time an amplifier is putting along at 1 watt or less however music can have a dynamic range well over 100db from 1 second to the other from silence to the clang of a cymbal. Thus you are not talking about a difference of 3 db avg you are talking of a difference of 100dB instantaneous the "little amplifier that could" does not have enough current to meet the demand, therefore, instead of forming the required sinus wave it cuts the peak and clips. Clipping is the most harmful form of distortion. Since its instantaneous most amplifiers cannot protect against it since their protection is based on thermal level and it takes a few seconds of being overdriven before the protection circuit activates. So yes a 50 watts amp can drive any speaker to low levels but as the volume goes up the electrical demands increase exponentially. If your listening level is that low you might as well listen to AM radio though your car stereo.

Hm, you seemed to skip over my last sentence so I'll say it again, "You still have a more than 3dB of constant headroom there with a 150W into 8 ohm amp and any amp worth mentioning has much more dynamic power capability on top of that for those large transient loads."

Let's give you a for instance to emphasize the point; the relatively inexpensive NAD C272 stereo amp is rated at a continuous 150W but it can peak at 230W into 8 ohms without clipping and can even peak at 520W into 2ohms. So yes, the little 150w amp that could.

And I'm not saying that all 150W amps could cope with these large transient loads but that's why I qualified my earlier statement with, "any amp worth mentioning".

Oh and you have to remember that the previous example was a very worse case – a sensitivity of 84dB and no in-room gain. I mean, that’s just not going to be the case with those XT4’s or most speakers in any normal room.

[jim777]

Clipping is the most harmful form of distortion. Since its instantaneous most amplifiers cannot protect against it since their protection is based on thermal level and it takes a few seconds of being overdriven before the protection circuit activates.

Clipping generates broadband noise, which is often too much energy for the tweeters, so they get killed.

That's another reason why I love McIntosh with their PowerGuard system that compresses the input signal instead of clipping. :B

[Ade]

I just came across an interesting article written by Alan Lofft that you may find interesting; I suppose that initially it supports your argument which is basically, "you can never have too much power", right? However, it later mentions dynamic compression which speakers will generally suffer from when exposed to too large a power peak.

I wonder if your XT4's start to suffer from dynamic compression after the 150w published power handling...

The article is here; Soft to Loud: The Nature of Power and Dynamic Headroom.

So, anyway, I suppose my point is that it's better to try to match an amps power to the speakers you have than to gung-ho it and just buy the biggest baddest amp you can afford... Or maybe it's just easier to be more careful of that volume control. :B