How Long will my B&Ws sing?

[beehive]

just curious, Owning the B&W DM602 S3, LCR 60, DM600s ( no budget to cure upgraditis )
How long will these puppies last? Im talking about normal wear and tear.

will it sing for 20 years?

[Briz vegas]

I retired my Mordaunt Short MS-30s rears last month. Bought them new in 1986......damn that dates me. The MS-30s are still going strong, they just got sort of shuffled down the line when I got new mains. With reasonable care 20 years should be fine IMO.

[chinets]

20 years, if you take good care of them...FOR SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have Klipsch speakers that are 30 years old ,and are still pumping music as if they were bought yesterday. I have the B&W 800 series and believe they will last that long too.??
Keep them in a dry and cool place away from the sun ,and you'll be fine. No Expiry dates on these puppies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paalam and Salamat!!
Chinets

[htsteve]

beehive,

I agree with the others. Take good care of them and they will last many years. I have the original B&W 601's in my basement. After 8 years, they still sound very good for their size. B&W uses quality parts, so they should last with reasonable care.

[chinets]

htsteve,
You have a Private Messages I sent you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for your kind message to me.
Thank God High End speakers like B&W last long ,if not we will be changing them every year, like PCs or New models of FAD electronics that have a low expectancy life.
Cheers,
ARGENTINA CAMPEON DEL MUNDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kevin P]

Speakers will last many years with proper care. About the only thing that some speakers have problems with is foam surrounds rotting or cracking on the drivers, but I don't think high-end speakers use foam surrounds anymore.

Speakers are more often replaced due to upgrades, not due to them wearing out. If they sound good when new, they'll still sound good in 20 years. My friend has a set of ADS speakers he got 20 years ago and they still sound great.

[DM3000 Owner]

Speakers will last many years with proper care. About the only thing that some speakers have problems with is foam surrounds rotting or cracking on the drivers, but I don't think high-end speakers use foam surrounds anymore.

Speakers are more often replaced due to upgrades, not due to them wearing out. If they sound good when new, they'll still sound good in 20 years. My friend has a set of ADS speakers he got 20 years ago and they still sound great.

I have use dvery old Klipsch speakers for years. The only parts that deteriorates with age are the capacitors in the crossovers (and like mentioned above, foam surrounds if your speakers use them). The thing to check on capacitors is the ESR (equivalent series resistance). Caps are very easy to replace if you know how to solder.

Chris

[george_k]

If they sound good when new, they'll still sound good in 20 years. My friend has a set of ADS speakers he got 20 years ago and they still sound great.

But will that 20 year old speaker still sound good when compared to a new speaker? Like comparing a B&W speaker from 20 years ago to one today?

[Fife]

But will that 20 year old speaker still sound good when compared to a new speaker? Like comparing a B&W speaker from 20 years ago to one today?

My B&W Matrix still sound better to me than some newer models. They are not 20 years old but older compared to the current lineup.

[beehive]

20 years, if you take good care of them...FOR SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have Klipsch speakers that are 30 years old ,and are still pumping music as if they were bought yesterday. I have the B&W 800 series and believe they will last that long too.??
Keep them in a dry and cool place away from the sun ,and you'll be fine. No Expiry dates on these puppies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paalam and Salamat!!
Chinets

So Speakers are investments huh? unlike my laptop
I should have bought 800s directly..
but I already have my thumbs up for 600s.

for chinet : (tagapinas ka din chinets? is that a short for chineto?)

[chinets]

Yes Beehive, Speakers are one of the Most essential Investments in a HT or Music systems, as technology in Amps, Pre/Pros, Cd players or DVD players( i.e. formats, upscaling and othe neat goodies) change with new technology ,and that happens frequently, while speakers usually take a longer time to evolve ,so yes speakers should be your Main Investment in a set up.
Again the 800 series would have been an excellent investment if you afford them ,but 600s are mean HT machines!!!!!!!!!!! Excellent for HT in my opinion!!! They are quite forward in Music ,but are definitely great speaker by all means.
Hindi ako tagapinas pero napalibutan ako ng pilipino at naitindihan ko kayo.
Chinets is a user name Only, not chinese.
Actually from Argentina ,but live in the Middle East ,and surrounded by your wonderful cambanian Philipino workers and staff that I feel i am in a mini Manila!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck with your set up,
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[george_k]

I wouldn't call it an investment an investment is something that you purchase now with the expectation that you'll receive some sort of financial benefit in the future so speakers generally don't qualifty.

[chinets]

The financial benefit of this investment is that if the speakers are great ,then you will not have to cough up more dough in 2 years, where as DVD players and all other electronics change drastically every year with new fancy stuff and new formats etc... So yes, I would consider that as an investment, because if you fork out cash every other year on speakers etc.. do you know what type of bill you will be adding to your salary or savings??? That is called an investment. Prices change all the time, and with Inflation you will never pay for speakers today and find the same price 5 years down the line. That is called an Investment. Upgradititis is diminished in that area if you love your speakers and that My dear Watson is an Investment.
My good 2 cents George K.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[george_k]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durable_good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

[beehive]

I would love to consider my puppies an investment

[chinets]

Beehive,
They are trust me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they will last a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG time if you take good care of them!! Unless you want to upgrade to better speakers, but if you are happy with what you have and is pleasant TO YOUR EARS ,then those puppies are your main investment in your set up!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Chinets

[chinets]

George K,
When you open the sites you refer to above, it backs my concept of an investment!!! and NOT YOURS!!!! I guess you don't understand the concepy of Investment well enough, or you don't read English well?? It's one or the other!!! Investment as you put it contradicts your ideas of what an investment really is!!! Vestment is latin for Garment, and the word originated from the times when people invested in their clothes for a future marriage or special occassion..or a durable good that does need changing in three years(these were your words) ,so please read what you send before sending things that totally contradict what you are saying and it is a gift to the plantiff here ,as you admit all your wrongs and gave me the evidence against what you stood for or reasoned with Tssstt!!!. Thanks for your errors!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't fool a lawyer all the time my dear Watson!!!!!!!
Cheers, and please read things please before you send them ( My 2 cents of good and free advice from a lawyer).
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you!! But I am 100% right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[george_k]

If they back up what you are saying then you are really misperceiving things.

Examples of durable goods include cars, appliances, business equipment, electronic equipment, home furnishings and fixtures, houseware and accessories, photographic equipment, recreational goods, sporting goods, toys and games.

Although they don't specifically list speakers in there you can logical infer from the wording that speakers much like electronics are a good and NOT an investment

An investment:
"An asset is usually purchased, or equivalently a deposit is made in a bank, in hopes of getting a future return or interest from it."

Under that definition speakers could be an investment if they were generating TANGIBLE revenue like if you were a owner of a night club or an owner of a movie theatre.

What your saying is that speakers are an investment because by buying the right pair today you'd save on future upgrades. Under this type of logic a car, motorcycle and TV would also be considered an investment because hey if you buy a good one now you won't need to upgrade in the near future.

So here's my question to you,

Suppose you buy a pair of speakers for $5000 today and you are not happy with them but don't care to upgrade either. Five years later you sell them for $2500 and in the meantime inflation has been rising at a steady 3%.

The future value of your decision (based on the purchasing power of today's dollars) would be -$5000 + 2500/1.03^5 = -$2843.48

Had you put this same amount of money into a bond for 5 years at say 5% with inflation again at 3% the future value of your decision would work out to 5000*(1.0194)^5 = $5504.66 meaning that you'd be $504.66 richer (over and above inflation) in 5 years than you are today (http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html)

Clearly in one instance you've made money and the other you've lost. Therefore one is an investment and the other is not.

I could care less if your a lawyer, doctor, janitor, highschool student or even a rocket scientist. I also could care less whether you actually "get it".

I don't want the other people reading this thread to believe your innacurate statement.

Somebody has to set the record straight.

PS: I won't bill you for my time

[Pez]

When talking about speakers for personal use in terms of an investment using the strictest definition of investment as it relates to money seems useless to me. I consider my speakers as an investment because they are going to provide me years of enjoyment, plain and simple. Now if I were to spend the same money on cocaine and hooker binge I most definately would not call that an investment.

How about this statment: spending time with your kids by reading to them is an investment in thier future. I think it be hard to find many people disagreeing with this statement yet there is no financial aspect to it.

We are talking about audio here, some liberties need to be taken. If we were to only use terms in the most strictest of manners it would be hard to get a point across sometimes.

My 2 cents.

[george_k]

How about this statment: spending time with your kids by reading to them is an investment in thier future. I think it be hard to find many people disagreeing with this statement yet there is no financial aspect to it.

Ofcourse there's financial aspect to it, your opportunity cost. Suppose that rather than reading to your kids you could use the time and make an extra $100 / day would you do it? probably not because you believe that you'll get a greater return out of reading to your kids rather than taking the $100. Maybe through your contributions they'll grow up and become next Einstein.

The same idea applies to the college grad who just spent $40-60k putting himself from school. He believes that the net benefits to be received in the future (in terms of higher salary) will amount to more than what he paid to put himself through school. So in a sense he invested in his future.

Economists can pretty much attach a price to anything these days and time isn't an exception

[Pez]

Ofcourse there's financial aspect to it, your opportunity cost. Suppose that rather than reading to your kids you could use the time and make an extra $100 / day would you do it? probably not because you believe that you'll get a greater return out of reading to your kids rather than taking the $100. Maybe through your contributions they'll grow up and become next Einstein.

The same idea applies to the college grad who just spent $40-60k putting himself from school. He believes that the net benefits to be received in the future (in terms of higher salary) will amount to more than what he paid to put himself through school. So in a sense he invested in his future.

Economists can pretty much attach a price to anything these days and time isn't an exception

So you are telling me a parent who reads to thier kids before is thinking "oh, I could be doing some work right now and earn a few more bucks". Highly unlikely if they are a salaried employee. I could see them thinking something like I am missing the ball game or my favorite show but again, many parents wouldnt call that an opportunity cost.

I know all about college loans as my wife and I have a lot from putting ourselves through college. Yes, that is an investment, no disareeing with that. On a side note because of those college loans we cant afford to buy a house, sad.

I dont mean to jump all over you its just that debating the term investment as it relates to high end audio doesnt make sense. From your last statement above, I thinks thats part of the problem with the world today - everything has to have a price attached to it. Again, I dont want to offend, we all have our own opinions on this. I was impressed with future value of money calculations, havent seen those in some time.

[Race Car Driver]

When talking about speakers for personal use in terms of an investment using the strictest definition of investment as it relates to money seems useless to me. I consider my speakers as an investment because they are going to provide me years of enjoyment, plain and simple. Now if I were to spend the same money on cocaine and hooker binge I most definately would not call that an investment.

:rofl: :rofl:
HOOKERS AND BLOW
:boobies: :rf

[lobato]

This thread has seriously gotten off-topic. If you need to argue, why not use private messages. Who cares if other people who read the thread might believe those "inaccurate" statements about what an investment is.

And like they say, arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics...

[Ade]

And like they say, arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics...

And why is that exactly?

[Briz vegas]

Gees, this is becoming quite a long thread. Seems to be going on for ever.

The good news is that when the dust settles beehive's 600s will still sound as good as the day he bought them.

[chinets]

George K,
I really don't give a hoot whether George K Is a fanacial Wiz or an accountant geek or even an Einstein economist here, all what we are saying ,and that includes our dear friend Pez, that speakers can be an investment and you can't put monetary value on everything in life. What might be valuable or and Investment to me might not be an Investment to George K..Sad but true.!!!!!
As Pez put it perfectly: reading to your children is an investment and you can't put money on that either. Right??????

George K, if you bought B&W N800 series 10 years ago and are still happy with the sound ,then yes, that would be considered a very good investment!! Why? because you cannot buy new N800 series today(Unless you are extremely lucky), and if you have to buy the same type of speaker you would have to hit the S or D series, and do you know how much that would cost you plus inflation today???
That is an Investment amigo, because the difference in price of N series and D series is tremendous, but the sound difference between one and the other does not merit that huge difference in price ,and you are still having better speakers than any new speakers on the market today, with the original price you have bought them at ,and the technology hasn't changed that drastically to make one sound Waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy better than the the old N series.

However, if you bought a pre/pro that has only 2 channel and no DTS or Dolby Digital let us say 10 years ago ,you would not enjoy whatever soft ware is available today ,so that might be a bad investment, but speakers are meant to stay with you for a long time. And that my dear Watson is an investment.

Speakers are probably the most important equipment in a system, because the speakers determine really the final sound. So yes, speakers first, then go up the ladder. And up the ladder ,means changes in technology every so often. So speakers are a major investment In my opinion especially if you like the sound of them.

Then you mumble around saying if you put your money in a bond or stock market etc over a certain amount of years, instead of buying the speakers, that you would be better of. No, Have you heard about the stock market crash and the depression of the 20's.. would you call that an investment when markets crash??. That is a gamble not an investment. People in the 1920's sold there personal items and survived the crash ,but if you were holding stock receipts and bonds you would be in serious problems. Now where is that as an Investment?. You could have sold the speakers to susutain life: such as food pal!!!! Then Sony speakers would have beeen a valuable commodity. Different priorities for different people. ( different strokes for different folks!).

What I consider ,or Pez considers, and investment might not be an investment for you and vise versa. so don't preach things when you have no clue about the reality of life and life itself. You sound so materialistic it stinks. When you have children in your life ,you will know what investment is all about. Life itself , family, friends are an investment to me and to real down to earth people .

First,Get your priorities straight in life ...Then preach if you have to.I really feel sorry for you and your materialistic attitude on life!!! I guess that would be your investment to life and nobody would care!!! If money is all that you care for!! Good Luck In this life ,as you have just invested in yourself!!

Now the forum understands well your inacurate statements as you brought that all on yourself buddy!!!!

And I won't bill you for this worldly and humananitarian advice, because you are not worth investing in!!!!!!!!!!! See the reality in life ,and enjoy the people and the world around you ,because that is worth Investing in!

My 2 free cents of advice to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now the record is straight!!!!!

[chinets]

Briz Vegas,

I guess the dust hasn't settled yet? And yes, Beehive will have speakers that would be great and last way beyond this argument and the life span of this forum if we keep continuing arguing this way.

Beehive: They Mature with age, like fine wine!!!!!!

ENJOY your speakers beehive and forget all the silly arguments here. We are sorry!!!!!

The Hookers and Blow part was hilarious!! Now thats worth investing in! A Jay Leno Joke is a serious investment!!Ha Ha!!!!

Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dknightd]

I think I could make an arguement for hookers and blow being a good investment.
Let's see. If we are happy with our jobs and life we will likely work hard at them, and, hence make more money. So anything that makes you happy is a good investment. Well, that wan't too hard! The nice thing about a decent pair of speakers is that you don't have to spend money on them every night. Hence speakers are a better investment than hookers or blow (assuming the speakers also make you happy)

I'd consider a good sounding, long lasting, pair of speakers an investment in helping keep me happy. . .

[Pez]

I think its safe to say people have different thoughts on this matter. Its unlikey no matter how we try to present ourselves it usually wont change someones point of view. In truth the only meaningless post on this entire thread is lobatos - why would belittle the special olympics - no class.

A quality pair of speakers should last a long time if they are cared for. Avoiding things like moist environments and excessive heat and you could get 20+ years out of them. Whether the money spent by the buyer is considered an investment, well, thats for the buyer to determine.

[Aussie Geoff]

Guys,

Take a deep breath... :amen:

It's only a hobby... :T

Many of the comments are off topic or into the personal criticism category. :scratchhead:

Now as my friend Azeke says "Peace and Blessings:

Oh and I like Pez's summation :banana:

A quality pair of speakers should last a long time if they are cared for. Avoiding things like moist environments and excessive heat and you could get 20+ years out of them. Whether the money spent by the buyer is considered an investment, well, thats for the buyer to determine.

Geoff

[RNKC]

Well, back tot he question at hand ...

How long will these puppies last? Im talking about normal wear and tear.

My Dad bought a pair of 801 Series 80 used. These speakers were probably manufactured early 1980s and they're just fine. The old Kef 104/5 that we have are also from early to mid 1980s and when you listen to them, they very obviously have lots of life left.

IMHO, high-end speakers (high-end audio in general) are made to last. If you take reasonable care of them they will be with you for a very long time.

Oldest items Dad has in the inventory are a circa late 1960s reel-to-reel tape recorder (Sony) that still works, and a Telefunken Opus 33 receiver which is still the best quality receiver we have. The reel-to-reel in fact, is older than me! The Telefunken is 1 year younger than I am.

[george_k]

Your seeing the term "investment" as meaning it was a good use of money. If you buy something and it lasts for 10 years and your still happy with it then it was a good use of money.

I agree with that statement, what I don't agree with is calling it an investment, that is mislabelling it.

Buying a pair of speakers is a "good buy" because they can last a long time, that much I can agree on.

If you still feel like arguing over this send me a PM so I can really tell you what I think.

[beehive]

huh?

I am glad to know that my B&W 600 series will last that long....it may not be the 800s but the word investment was the very first word that came out from my thought when chinets assured my puppies would last long with proper care and i dont wanna go into the investments technicalities anymore.

george if you dont wanna consider them investments thats fine...
but im sure all of us will agree B&W makes us happy all night long as hookers and blows

Thank You and as Aussie Geoff said take a deep breathe, its just a hobby!!!

PEACE!

[chinets]

All you guys sorry for the arguments. Just setting things right here!!

It's all about a hobby and Beautiful sound and Aussie Geoff is right!!!!!!!!!!!!

George K : I don't want to take the gloves off in the PM ,as it is not worth arguing anymore. Let us smoke the peace pipe for the sake of SOUND!!!!

Beehive is happy, Aussie Geoff is relaxed and evrey one is keeping there speakers!! No harm done, except where do we get the hookers and blow here? Just kidding!!

Peace,Love and have a wonderful day all!! George K cheer up!...... You are a great investment to this forum!!!!

Regards and cheers!!!!!!!!!!!

[beehive]

Cheers!!!!!!

[WI Rotel]

A quick chat on longevity. Speakers are definitely durable goods but where you live is also crucial! If you live in the tropics there is a mold that actualy eats foam rubber and other plastics, thus drivers that use foam rather than butyl plastic suffer from shortened life. Sunlight is another enemy of any plastic. Tweeters last essentially forever (unless blown). Speaker longevity in dry climates can be decades.

[AptosJeff]

This is the funniest thread I've seen yet on the whole HT site!

[Jmac]

A quick chat on longevity. Speakers are definitely durable goods but where you live is also crucial! If you live in the tropics there is a mold that actualy eats foam rubber and other plastics, thus drivers that use foam rather than butyl plastic suffer from shortened life. Sunlight is another enemy of any plastic. Tweeters last essentially forever (unless blown). Speaker longevity in dry climates can be decades.

I wondered if that might be the situation with some speakers, as I've had headphone 'foam' pads rot like that, and one very old pair of speakers given to me for surrounds a while back.

How would this apply to the material B&W use around the edge of the FST midrange driver? - is it not some sort of foam? What would the likely life expectancy be if it is?

Many thanks

John.. 8)

[CombatWombat]

Good question Jmac, I would like to hear anyone who has a answer to that since I live in the tropics

[BTB]

I think that the FST drivers are surround"less" because they are midrange ONLY drivers (and therefore don't require flexible surrounds as they are not prone to the same excursion demands of LF drivers), therefore they should be safe from the "rot" etc... described above.

[browns1]

I have a pair of DM2000 (walnut with glass tops) and dm1400's (also walnut) both with build dates in the early 80's. From my perspective they sound as good as new. The have been well cared for and I expect them to last another 10 years. Also, Ohio doesnt have the most forgiving climate and I didnt have air conditioning early on.

[WI Rotel]

I wondered if that might be the situation with some speakers, as I've had headphone 'foam' pads rot like that, and one very old pair of speakers given to me for surrounds a while back.

How would this apply to the material B&W use around the edge of the FST midrange driver? - is it not some sort of foam? What would the likely life expectancy be if it is?

Many thanks

John.. 8)

I visited the FST mini site and can't really tell what material the surround is built of, it is described as foam rubber. Whether this is the more suceptible type or not I don't really know. However even with the usual foam, the degradation takes around a decade so I woulgn't be overtly concerned. When it does breakdown a simple swap of the driver makes the speaker as good as new.

[corbelli]

My first pair of B&W Matrix 801 S3 have December 1991 data and my second pair of B&W Matrix 801 S3 have 1996 data and the sound and drivers are perfect but I think the filter capacitors in first pair have many years, and have the impression that highs are a little soft in comparison with second pair.

The capacitors in filter....