RB-1080 for 804's

[snowball]

Will a Rotel RB-1080 be capable of driving the 804's to their full potential?

Mind you that i am not a "weak" listener,i like my music loud!(when i can )

[miner]

In a short answer, yes. Before my RB-1092 I was using a RB-1070 amp with my 804 and they sounded great with the 130w/ch power. Although 200w/ch is not that much more the overall dynamics of the RB-1080 is much better than the RB-1070.

[htsteve]

Yes

I have N804's. Until recently, they were driven by a 1080. I have since purchased a 1077 and bi-amped the N804's (my review on this in Club Rotel). The 1080 and N804's is a very good combo. And it will get very loud while being very clean sounding.


Hope this helps.

[snowball]

Thanks guys!

This surely is good news,as i was thinking of (maybe!!!) cracking my wallet and getting the rb-1090,but now i can spend that money on............music!!!!!

so even the rb-1070 is good enough for them?
hmm i might consider this as an option too then!
or maybe i shouldnt?

[snowball]

Hi guys,i just want to make sure i have all the grounds covered

So the RB-1080 is a good amp for the 804's,but what about the RB-1070?
the $$$ difference between these two amps is considerable.
Is the sonic difference considerable too?

Miner you said you have experienced the sound of this combo,what is it like?

Thanks!

[nyny]

Hey Snowball,

I agree that RB-1080 is a capable amp, but I will have to disagree on that it will drive a pair of 804S to their FULL potential. I performed extensive comparison between the 804S + RB1080, the Bryston 4B SST + 804S and the JRDG 201 Mono + 804S. I can assure you that the 1080 will not drive the 804S to its FULL potential.

IMHO, both the 4B SST and the 201 Mono do a better job at driving the 804S. First thing you will notice is the difference in the bass region. With the 1080, the 804S' bass can sound muddy with certain passages. 4B SST and 201 on the other hand, provides constant tight and well controlled bass notes. Second, the 1080 did not sound as dynamic as the other two amps that I tested. BTW, I ended up getting the Jeff Rowland, which sounded more musical to me when compared to the Bryston.

Don't get me wrong, I think RB-1080 is a great amp especially consider its price/performance ratio. However, since your original question asked whether it will drive the 804S to its FULL potential, the asnwer is definitely a NO. Hope this helps.

[miner]

Hi guys,i just want to make sure i have all the grounds covered

So the RB-1080 is a good amp for the 804's,but what about the RB-1070?
the $$$ difference between these two amps is considerable.
Is the sonic difference considerable too?

Miner you said you have experienced the sound of this combo,what is it like?

Thanks!

Get as much amp as you can afford. My 804 were the Nautilus model, not the S series. The 1070 did a fine job at low to mid levels, did not listen much above the 12 o'clock position on my pre (RC-1070). I noticed a definite improvement when I added the RB-1092 into the mix. Bottom line - get as much amp as you can afford, don't cut corners here.

[shep]

I have the same setup now (rc-1070, rb-1070 and 804s) and took a loaner rb-1090 home from the shop to see what kind of improvement it would make. At low to medium listening levels (between 8-10 oclock on the pre), there was a very noticable improvement in the sound (see my comments elswhere on this site), and I now find the 1070 to be a bit lacking (where I was blissfully ignorant beforehand). Trouble is, they no longer make the 1090 and my intention was not to buy the loaner from the shop, so now considering either the 1080 (I hear the difference between the 1080 and the 1090 is not as big as between the 1070 and 1080), or else to look around at other amps (Classe was always my goal, but out of my price range).

Don't get me wrong. The 1070 is a fine amp for the money, and sounds quite good. As soon as you've heard better, though, you get that upgrade bug... FYI - the 1080 is often referred to as the entry level amp (or minimum standard) for these speakers. If you plan to upgrade to the 803s, then you will want something more like a 1090 (if you can find one) or else a 1092. Otherwise, you may need to look at Bryston, Classe, Krell, etc., if price is no object.

[KEF]

I would have to agree with the others on this point - the RB-1080 will drive a set of 804s, this whas the set up I started with a few years ago. But the bottom end won't be nearly as good as it could be...

The 4B SST would do a much better job - don't look past Audiogon for this type of gear either, solid state amps are pretty easy to come by at a good price. After a year or so with the RB-1080 I replaced it with a different amp, and the bass opened up.

Like the others have said, buy as much amp you can afford -

Regards,
Keith

[scanido]

I was in your shoes about less than a month ago deciding on what amp. I even considered going with the RB-1050 to get by until a future upgrade. To tell you the truth it's better to just get the proper amp the first time!

I auditioned the RB-1070, RB-1080 and a Bryston 4B-SST. Between the RB-1070 and RB-1080 there was little difference at low-med volumes. The difference became more apparent at med-loud volumes. If you really pushed the RB-1080 you will notice compression in the bass.

With the Bryston there was NO comparison. Flat out you can tell right away that it was a cleaner sounding amp at ALL volume levels. I ended up with a used 4B-ST which is the older model of the SST series. Great amp for the price.

[shep]

Anyone listen to the older Classe CA-201 with the 804s? I am trying to find one to compare with my Rotel. I know it should be better, but dying to find out just how much so.

[AptosJeff]

With 800 series, amps will surprise you.

With a high definition speaker like the 804, be careful what amp you use.
I had just bought 804's and went to buy a Rotel amp to have more power than my old 25W tube amps. Well, did I get a surprise. I was pretty dissapointed in the 200W 2ch Rotel - rather opaque and harsh. I then tried some 125W McIntosh tube amps - much better, but of course you are looking at a lot more money. But it was no better than the 25W amps I had.

Then, in the same store, I listened to some used Aragon Palladiums. If you don't know, these are ~10 years old, very large and pretty high power. Not what I was looking for. But you have to listen! They were much better to my ears - sounded less distorted than either the Rotel or Mac, and more power than I need. The sound quality really depends on the amps (and source), esp with good speakers. Good speakers with a mediocre amp can be painful, and at the least, tiring to listen to. I'm sure there are plenty of currently available amps that are suitable, but I would suggest that Rotels are not well suitied to the 800 series.

[B&W 700 Guy]

If you like Rotel, I would run the thoughts speaker with the 1090. If you can afford it get the Classe amp.

Or... buy a "B" stock 1080 amp and with the money you save and a few extra dollars buy a subwoffer. Not only in HT, but in 2 channel the 804's need a sub.
:T

[Ade]

With a high definition speaker like the 804, be careful what amp you use.
I had just bought 804's and went to buy a Rotel amp to have more power than my old 25W tube amps. Well, did I get a surprise. I was pretty dissapointed in the 200W 2ch Rotel - rather opaque and harsh. I then tried some 125W McIntosh tube amps - much better, but of course you are looking at a lot more money. But it was no better than the 25W amps I had.

Then, in the same store, I listened to some used Aragon Palladiums. If you don't know, these are ~10 years old, very large and pretty high power. Not what I was looking for. But you have to listen! They were much better to my ears - sounded less distorted than either the Rotel or Mac, and more power than I need. The sound quality really depends on the amps (and source), esp with good speakers. Good speakers with a mediocre amp can be painful, and at the least, tiring to listen to. I'm sure there are plenty of currently available amps that are suitable, but I would suggest that Rotels are not well suitied to the 800 series.

My guess is that you prefer the tube amp "sound" - that is, tube amps sometimes have a lot of audible distortion that is very distinctive sounding and some people prefer that over what should be a transparent signal gain. Reasonable quality modern day solid state amps have no sonic signature to speak of unless they are specifically designed to have one - in the level matched blind tests that I have seen no one has been able to pick out one amp from another no matter the difference in price, whether it be 100's or 1000's of $s difference. The only time sound differences should be audible in modern amps is if they haven't enough power for the load and are driven to clipping.

[AptosJeff]

My guess is that you prefer the tube amp "sound" - that is, tube amps sometimes have a lot of audible distortion that is very distinctive sounding and some people prefer that over what should be a transparent signal gain. Reasonable quality modern day solid state amps have no sonic signature to speak of unless they are specifically designed to have one - in the level matched blind tests that I have seen no one has been able to pick out one amp from another no matter the difference in price, whether it be 100's or 1000's of $s difference. The only time sound differences should be audible in modern amps is if they haven't enough power for the load and are driven to clipping.

Well, I have enjoyed a few tube amps over the years, but I don't claim that they are perfect. For example, to me some can sound bright and "exciting", but not necessarily good. And I do prefer the SS Palladiums over any tube amp I have heard. But I beg to differ on your assessment of modern day SS amps. I would suspect there are probably several of the better examples that are difficult to tell apart, but if you think that no modern SS amps sound different from each other (to all people) or that they are all essentially perfect, I believe you are on shaky ground. Some people hear things that others do not, and often it is quite real. Of course, this is just my opinion.
Do you have a preference in power amps under $6K?

With respect, AptosJeff

[Ade]

Well, I have enjoyed a few tube amps over the years, but I don't claim that they are perfect. For example, to me some can sound bright and "exciting", but not necessarily good. And I do prefer the SS Palladiums over any tube amp I have heard. But I beg to differ on your assessment of modern day SS amps. I would suspect there are probably several of the better examples that are difficult to tell apart, but if you think that no modern SS amps sound different from each other (to all people) or that they are all essentially perfect, I believe you are on shaky ground. Some people hear things that others do not, and often it is quite real. Of course, this is just my opinion.
Do you have a preference in power amps under $6K?

With respect, AptosJeff

Hey Jeff, no need to be overly polite. No seriously, I'm not one to go ballistic just because someone doesn't agree with me, in fact it's normally different opinions that make places like this interesting to visit. Right?

Anyway, I've heard quite a few people say the same as you; I’d even say that it tends to be the majority view.

To address your points; tube amps are not perfect by definition. Their inherently distorted signal is what people tend to like about them. However, having said that, not all tube amps have distortion levels great enough to be audible - then they become just pretty and very inefficient amps with little power.

No SS amp is perfect either and I hope that I didn't imply that in my previous post, but some are less perfect than others. Fortunately that's usually irrelevant these days as the human ear is very imperfect and can only hear a small subset of frequencies and distortion needs to be quite pronounced to be audible so perfection is not required.

Your point about being able to hear a difference (and I'm sure you can), well, unfortunately a lot of that comes down to two things; incorrect level matching and psycho-acoustics. Even comparing correctly level match amps can be tricky as aural memory can be measured in the 10's of seconds.

Edit: Maybe I should have said three things, the third being clipping; the clipping point of different amps even those that are rated with same wattage on paper can vary.

My preferred amp is the cheapest that will give me the power I need to drive the speakers I have, has inaudible levels of distortion, and is aesthetically pleasing.

You may find the following fairly famous links interesting. The first is quite a large amp test performed in the 80's, and the second is an ongoing challenge you might like you take?

Do All Amps Sound the Same?

Richard Clark Challenge

I’d like to hear your opinion on the above links and I appreciate you taking the time to post. :T

[bigburner]

I’d like to hear your opinion on the above links and I appreciate you taking the time to post. :T

Pure heresy Ade. People have been sent to Guantánamo Bay for less!

Seriously though, you will find that only a small percentage of people in this forum would agree with Richard Clark [who claims that as long as a modern audio amplifier is operated within its linear range (below clipping), the differences between amps are inaudible to the human ear].

The main argument that you will hear from those who believe that there are major differences between amps is "go and listen for yourself". This is particularly ironic as the differences may well be inaudible!

I tend to agree with Richard Clark because I lean towards the scientific rather than a belief system. However I'm also prepared to support those who claim to hear a difference because (a) who am I to tell them that they're wrong? and (b) it makes this hobby more fun to believe that there are differences and I don't want to be a killjoy.

In New Zealand (and England) my position is called "having a bob each way".

PS Your first link didn't go anywhere. Would you please check the URL.

[Ade]

In New Zealand (and England) my position is called "having a bob each way".

PS Your first link didn't go anywhere. Would you please check the URL.

:B

It's called "hedging your bets" here. Edit: Uh, I missed the "and England" the first time around - that should be "Britain" - I'm Welsh and we use that too you know.

Looks like the site is down - hopefully it'll come back up again or someone else will host that test as it's one of the best and convincing I've seen documented.

And hey, I don't mean to be a killjoy either but sometimes advice is given to people that are poorly informed and they may end up spending a lot of money for the wrong reasons as a result. It’s all about making informed choices – once people have both sides of the story they are free to make up their own minds.

[Stevebez]

I think it will be a really good match ... the 1080 was a little light for the 803's but think for the 804's it will have just enough in reserve.

Rgds Steve.