Can't settle? 802D's or nothing....

[nkb]

I have been conflicted ever since I heard the 802D's. I have an HT/audio system spec'd with McIntosh MX119 and MC207 with 802D's and B&W HTM3 center, ASW 825 sub. I have installed B&W in wall for rear for a 5.1 system. (I have a challenging and large "great room" for a surround system) Also, B&W in-wall and ceiling throughout the house, 16 zones (not yet fired up yet, waiting on Crestron Adagio). In the final analysis I want a 2-channel audio setup that is superlative. The HT is secondary.

At the moment for my great room I am put off by the overall cost of Mc stack and the B&W's L/R, center, sub(can get part of a fancy swimming pool fo the same cost). I have listened (although not extensively) to other setups at less cost but nothing seems to compare. At this point i'm thinking of going "upscale" consumer (Denon A/V receiver, "nice cheap speakers", etc), at 1/10 the cost and holding out for later getting what I really want. I can't see a middle ground compromise (e.g. $4000/pr front speakers vs $12000). Is there something out there that I should check out that might satisfy me at a lower cost than the Mc and B&W (even the B&W and some other pre/amp?). The 802D's are considered power hungry. Could I replace the Mc with something that would do the job but at less cost?

Unfortunately for me, I really can hear the difference with the lesser systems. The lesser systems (even B&W 803's) just haven't done it for me. But I certainly have not listened to everything out there.

Nothing to really say. I think I am voting for deferred gratification and not spending my money on middle ground, compromise solutions, that in themselves are not all that cheap. Can somewhere out there recommend an option "comparable" to the Mc stack and the B&W 802D's?


Thanks,

[Aussie Geoff]

Nkb,

This forum of B&W lovers is probably not the ideal place to ask (basically) what sounds as good as the B&W 802Ds for a lot less. So you may wish to post in one of the other HTguide forums such as the Audio Hideout or Hime Theater and ask the same question...

However given how clearly you can hear the differences between the 802Ds and lesser B&Ws - I am not sure there is an easy non B&W answer... (biased I know).

One option is (partially) hidden in your own post... My not start with the B&W 802Ds in a stereo configuration and drive them with a lot cheaper amplification. For example a pair of NuForce Ref 9.02s (or even better 2 pairs to bi-amp them) and their matching P=8 pre-amp and use a good but cost effective CD player such as the Rotel RCD-1072 or the Cambridge Audio 604C (see this thread

This will very much reduce the cost of your system and arguably (for stereo) give 90% of the sound.

You can still use a cheaper processor or reciever to drive the rest of the system and just feed its L and R pre-outs into the stereo pre-amp...

Geoff

[dknightd]

I think if your primary interest is 2 channel music I'd consider
selling off the 16 zones of in wall/ceiling speakers and using
that money to buy the front speakers you want. You can always
replace the in wall stuff later as funds and needs allow.

[dyazdani]

I am thinking along the same lines as Geoff. Get the 802Ds and a 2 channels of decent amplification (maybe even the Macs) and a cheaper, multi-channel amp or even a receiver for the center/surrounds.

[nkb]

Have come to the same conclusion

The latest config:

802D's
McIntosh MC402 to drive them
Anthem AVM50(rebadged D1) preamp/surround processor
Anthem A5 to power the center, surrounds

Center speaker:

Downgraded to HTM4s from HTM3s


Sub:

Downgraded from ASW825 to ASW750

Not sure I want to commit to the downgrades.

Also, looking at used I could get 2x501's for maybe $1K more than the 402(new). This a good idea? Not bought used before. Will I notice much diff with 2x501 vs 1x402?

Also, I can get B&W HTM1 (used) and B&W ASW 850 (used) for similar money to the HTM4S(new) and ASW750 (new).

What are peoples experiences with buying used speakers/amps?

[caleb]

nkb,
I think that to downgrade your sub would be a mistake.

Whilst the 802's give a good account of themselves in the lower frequencies, you should put the best sub with them to get down to the "stomach hitting" lows.

Just MHO.

[Aussie Geoff]

nkb,

IMO the lesser centre would be a mistake - especially considering how fussy you are over the 802Ds... Really you need the HTM2D but I understand this is not a budgetable option right now. Try no centre (the processor will move the sound to the left and right 802Ds). Set up well the 802Ds have superb imaging and will play very well without a centre in all but the largest rooms. Use the money you save for either the 855 or 875 sub... Later (when you can afford it) get the HTM2D...

Geoff

[nkb]

Constraints say HTM3s not HTM2d and ASW825 not 855

I had a cabinet made which was specifically designed for the following:

802d's: ability to open the cabinet front, fold back the door to expose the speaker, and also roll out, as the speakers sit on the floor.
HTM3s center
aSW 825

I have in-wall BW speakers for rears, already installed.

After recently thinking of going a "cheap" route on the center and sub and possibly downgrading(see above) now I have swung the other direction. I want the HTM2d and ASW855, but I am rather locked into the dimensions of my cabinet. I could possibly accommodate the HTM2d by making some modifications. The larger sub would be a very tight fit, right up against the internal cabinet walls-doesn't seem wise to directly couple the low frequencies of the sub to the entire cabinet structure. The sub sits on the floor inside the cabinet, also with ability to open the door.

I don't want to regret not getting the HTM2d by getting the HTM3s or the 825 vs the 855. At this point, the money is not the issue.

I have not heard any of these choices, by the way. I have been focused on the 802D's that are a done deal.

My sense is that for HT the HTM3's probably will be just fine as well as the 825 sub. But, but.....

Anybody have experience on making these comparisons. The implication from the BW website is that with the 802D's is that you should pair these with the HTM1D or HTM2D not the HTM3s.

[rolski]

Anybody have experience on making these comparisons. The implication from the BW website is that with the 802D's is that you should pair these with the HTM1D or HTM2D not the HTM3s.

I have 802D's & a HTM2D now - I had a (Nautilus) HTM1 for a couple of months while I was upgrading - and they work together fine - but you can notice a slightly better match if you have the Diamond tweeters all across the front of your set-up. The matched bass drivers also make a difference - but remember that we're talking about the fineries of high-end speakers here - the differences aren't that huge....

Oh, and I can't imagine what your cabinet looks like at all - sounds very complicated & worth a picture !

[Aussie Geoff]

Anybody have experience on making these comparisons. The implication from the BW website is that with the 802D's is that you should pair these with the HTM1D or HTM2D not the HTM3s

I have extensively compared the HTM3S and HTM2D...

The HTM3S is designed for the 803S and 804S and it shows... Nice but the trebble and upper midrange just hasn't the crispness of the HTM2D. Also (to my ears) the imaging and vocals on the HTM2D was noticably better.. Really it would be a shame ot have the 802D and not have the HTM2D if you listen to much home theatre...

The sub is a different story... I really like the 855 for its deep tight bass... The 825 is good - but not as deep. Really for music with the 802Ds the 825 isn't adding much... But if you only want the sub for HT use and if your room is not too bad then the 825 will add a noticable impact... That said -I'd get the 855 and have it outside the cabinet (but that's me!)

Geoff

[nkb]

OK Try to make the HTM2D work, maybe also the 855

I am fine tuning, measuring my cabinet to see if I can get the HTM2D and ASW 855 in. I think I can make the HTM2D fit, not so sure about the sub. To place the sub out on its own, outside the cabinet, may not pass muster with the wife. Right now the whole system can be buttoned up and not be seen, when not in use (a pity I know).

There is a plasma lift behind where the center HTM2D would go, so I need to ensure I have enough clearance to the front of the plasma when it is retracted. Right now don't have the plasma so I am going from specifications off the internet to determine clearances. With the HTM3S there was a lot more room. The HTM2D is 2.8" deeper.

I also have noted that the HTM2D is a ported design while the HTM3S is sealed. I am wondering what effect this might have on putting the HTM2D inside a cabinet. Clearances when in use would be about 10" on back and sides, open (of course) in front. Any insights on this?



Thanks for the feedback.

[nkb]

Ok, getting the HTM2D, but now pre/amp issues, and cost is way up

I have settled on the following (for the moment?):

802d's (L/R front)
HTM2D (I can get this into my cabinet)
ASW825 (cannot fit the ASW855)

I have now discovered to my chagrin that my original McIntosh MX119 pre and the MC207 amp that were previously too expensive have been replaced by the following that actually cost more:

1. Anthem AVM50
2. Mac MC402 (2x400w) amp
3. Anthem A5 (5x200w) amp for the HT

Moreover I am thinking I need to upgrade to the Anthem D2 from the AVM50 because of better audio. List on the D2 is $2000 more than the AVM50. So, altogether, I have increased the pre/amp portion of my budget by 15 to 35% from the original MX119/MC205 that I thought was too much and have now entered a territory where Krell, Classe, Lexicon, can also be had for a similar price. But, I feel the current config is superior to the MX119/MC207 that I started with.

I haven't listened to the other systems, but what has struck me is how "old" some of these systems are(4 to 5 years). They generally have many fewer features on the surround processor than the Anthem D2 and the amps less power than the Anthem P5. There is no HDMI on any of these. No video processing like on the D2. But, I suppose it boils to down to the audio portion of the processors. The amps probably don't change much, such that a design that is 4 years old is not necessarily an issue. Just so long as there is enough power to drive the 802d's.

While the D2 has the HT bells and whistles how does it stack up on 2ch music relative to Krell, Lexicon, and Classe as well as in conjunction with the BW speakers?

So, my quest continues. Problem is finding a dealer that handles these various brands to be able to listen to them in the configurations that I want.