Audio Rack Placement

[JKalman]

Does anyone have any advice on where the best place to put an audio rack is? I don't want it to interfere with the sound at all, so I know I can't put it both behind and in-between the two stereo speakers. How about in the corners if I have my speakers around 6 feet or more from the front walls? Or is this almost as bad as placing them between the speakers. Is my only decent option to place it against the wall or close to it near my listening position, i.e. - past the speakers and myself where it won't effect the sound I hear?

Unfortunately I have a 5 shelf rack that, with the amplifier on top, is the same level as the tweeters.

Thanks.

[sikoniko]

This is an issue I am contemplating. The thing is, the further away your rack is, the longer the speaker cable. That is why you would use balanced interconnects and place your amps next to your speakers and use a shorter speaker cable run. It is my understanding that longer speaker cable runs use more ohms and your cost for audiophile cables goes up quickly.

[JKalman]

If I weren't moving my equipment to the other side of the room I could have used my closet and ran the speaker cable through the walls, but I'm not going to be anywhere near the closet anymore, and I definitely want the 3-4 extra feet on the other side of my office space to increase the soundstage.

[JKalman]

What do you think would be the maximum height you could have for an object between the speakers, or behind them, before they interfere with the soundstage's dimensionality and image?

[Mark_C.]

Well, this is how I did it. My Nautilus 804s are about 2 feet away from the back wall and about 7 feet apart. I just made sure I had more speaker cable than I needed for the stand off to the side.

[caleb]

Where did you get the idea that having your rack between the speakers if not possible?

I have mine right smak in the centre with my centre speaker on the top nd the sound has not deteriorated at all.

Also bear in mind that placing your racks well away from your speakers means that you will have metres of wire.

In my setup I have the absolute minimum of wire to get best sound.

I'll post a pic of my setup if I can figure out how ! !

[JKalman]

Where did you get the idea that having your rack between the speakers if not possible?

I have mine right smak in the centre with my centre speaker on the top nd the sound has not deteriorated at all.

Also bear in mind that placing your racks well away from your speakers means that you will have metres of wire.

In my setup I have the absolute minimum of wire to get best sound.

I'll post a pic of my setup if I can figure out how ! !

It is possible, it would interfere with the dimensionality of my soundstage though. That is the problem I have had with my TV being between the speakers and it is the reason I am getting rid of the TV and making it an all audio system now. I moved my speakers out from the front wall 6 feet and moved the TV and my whole soundstage came to life.

The only things I will put behind my speakers on the front wall after learning this is perhaps some treatments to enhance the sound. I'm considering putting my equipment behind my seating position and buying an RF remote. I'm not making compromises with the sound quality of my system anymore. Such seemingly insignificant things make amazingly large differences in the quality of a system's sound.

Unfortunately, my best option was a closet on the side of the room I am moving my speakers from, but that whole side of the room is so asymmetric that I really have to switch my audio system to the more symmetric area to make working with it easier and to allow for more improvements to the sound quality of the system.

[RobP]

Jeff, what is behind your front wall behind where your TV sits?

[JKalman]

Jeff, what is behind your front wall behind where your TV sits?

Nothing, another room is on the other side of the wall. The wall is two layers of drywall on a wood frame. There are toys on the other side of the wall but nothing of large size and nothing that is tall, just very small stuff near the floor.

I have the speakers 8 feet out from the wall because I haven't been able to move the TV on my own (it is a 36 inch tube and weighs too much). I can still hear the TV interfering with the quality of the sound. It causes center of the phantom image to sound very diffuse and weak, which is most noticeable with vocals. I can hear this effect lesson as I pull the speakers out more from the wall, even if I pull the speakers further apart from each other at the same time.

The other side of the room where I plan on moving my equipment has a window on the front wall. I have a heavy curtain on it. I hope that is not going to cause a huge problem when I move everything. I would image the complete lack of symmetry on the side my speakers currently occupy is a worse issue, since it is very noticeable to me when I listen to music.

[dyazdani]

That is why you would use balanced interconnects and place your amps next to your speakers and use a shorter speaker cable run.

This is usually a good way to do it. Put your amp/amps on the floor (amp stand) between your speakers and run a longer IC to them. Then you can put your rack on the side somewhere.

The corner may be OK, but it would be nice to put some room treatments there for bass control.

[NonSense]

Results may vary with this strategy.

The weakest signal level could be the connection between the pre-amp and the amplifier depending on your listening levels and the gain of your amplifier. In my system the typical output from the source is in the order of 2V p-p, but the output from the pre-amp stage at my prefered listening level is approx 0.8v p-p. Therefore great care is needed to preserve this signal as it is the most suceptable to ingress. The signal output from amplifier is much stronger. Some experimentation on this matter is necessary. If you don't have mono blocks, you will be into both a reasonable run of speaker cable and a long run of interconnect. Good qualtiy balanced cable can run in the same price range as good quality speaker cable. Since it is not as common, it will likely be a custom build, unlike pulling some extra length off the spool for speaker cable.

There is no ultimate solution for your dilema. You should try a few configurations to find your preference.

[aphexist]

In general, since the IC is a low-level (unamplified) signal, it is best to keep those wire shorter. Speaker wires on the other hand, are much more forgiving when it comes to longer runs.

It is my understanding that longer speaker cable runs use more ohms.

That statement is a little too broad in this context. See Wire Table to determine how long your runs can be.

and your cost for audiophile cables goes up quickly.

Since I am secure in my decision to use inexpensive 12ga. copper cable at $.30 a foot, I can put my equipment rack behind the listening position and my soundstage and projection screen is unobstructed.

[aphexist]

Also bear in mind that placing your racks well away from your speakers means that you will have metres of wire.

In my setup I have the absolute minimum of wire to get best sound.

I would argue that having an unobstructed soundstage is more beneficial than having longer speaker cable runs.

Depending on where you have your rack, the hard, reflective surfaces of your equipment could negatively affect the natural dispersion pattern of your tweeters, causing early first order reflections in your room and a "confused" stereo image.

Longer speaker cables could *possibly* cause some high/low frequency cutoff or make your amp work harder, but only if you are using exceptionally long runs or unusually small gauge wire.

[rav934]

Tips from Mapleshade

How To Do Listening Tests:

Pick two or three one minute selections—longer will overload your audio memory. Make sure they encompass the instrument timbres and dynamics that mean the most to you. Always listen to exactly the same selections in the same order, before and after each tweak or change. After 25 or so of these tests, you'll be surprised at how precisely you resolve small sound differences.

Free Audio Upgrades:

• Almost everybody sits way too far from their speakers, that is, 8' to 10' or more. Try a low chair (or floor pillow) 5' away. You'll hear a phenomenal increase in clarity, bass impact and soundstage—roughly like spending 100% more on your speakers.

• Nearly everybody sits too high. The "tweeters at ear level"rule sounds logical but fails when tested. For a test, sit on one or two phone books: you'll hear an amazing new warmth and fullness in baritone voice, trombones, tenor sax, plucked bass—and a far more natural treble balance.

• For much improved bass and huge soundstage, put your listening chair or sofa right against the wall behind you. Move your speakers in to 5' in front of you and 7' or more apart. No room treatments will yield this much bass improvement.

• Lift all speaker, power and interconnect wires 8" off any non-wool carpet or plastic tile. Use string, wood, cardboard or 20 ounce Styrofoam cups for temporary props. You'll think you've pulled horse blankets off your speakers. For a more civilized-looking solution, see here.

• Remove your speaker's cloth or foam grill. Snip off any plastic phase ring in front of the tweeter. You'll hear as much as a 100% improvement in treble.

• Almost all small speakers are on stands that are way too high (24" and up)—and, all too often, too flimsy. Want to hear how much bass and warmth your speakers are losing? Try 'em on the floor, tilted back with a wood or metal block under the front. If you're on carpet, lay down a heavy plank or cutting board first. See here for even better sounding solutions.

• Speakers on stands or shelves MUST use feet, but never soft ones: no rubber/plastic feet, Blu-Tack, Sorbathane, etc. For firmer bass plus clearer mids and treble, try speakers on three hardware store wood plugs or buttons. See here to get 2-3 times the effect.

• Ditto for all CD players, amps, power supplies, etc. If the wood buttons aren't high enough, try three wood blocks (3/4" or so), to raise components off their rubber/plastic feet. You'll hear an instant bass-to-treble upgrade. Of course, stacking components is the worst of all worlds: you're failing to drain vibrations and forcing the components to share vibes.

• NEVER use speaker cables shorter than 8'. Amazingly, 4' sounds much worse than 8'. Contrary to common belief, shorter interconnects (2 m or less) and longer speaker cables sound WAY BETTER than the opposite—based on extensive head-to-head tests.

•For seamless subwoofer sound, use only the speaker cable input, not the RCA input. In addition, connect the two main speakers directly to the main amp output, not to the subwoofer's output. Always fire the subwoofer driver left or right, not at you or down into the floor. Set the crossover at the lowest possible frequency that doesn't leave a bass gap. You'll be amazed at the overall transparency you gain.

• Contrary to manufacturer hype, subwoofer placement is crucial. To get clean bass attacks, subwoofers must be precisely (±1") the same distance from your ear as the midrange driver. Corner placement always leads to boom. Also, subwoofers sound much cleaner on cones than on spikes or rubber feet.

• If you have bi-wirable speakers with brass jumper plates, replace the terrible-sounding plates with bare, unstranded copper wire. For a jumper that's much better yet, see here. If you bi-wire, separate the treble and bass cables by 1' or more; bundling wires will ruin most of the bi-wire advantage. Bi-wiring is worth doing only for cables with limited bass and treble.

• For any separate power supply: listen, then turn it 90 degrees, turn another 90 degrees, etc. One of the four positions will sound way better (due to non-uniform transformer leakage). In addition, separate power supplies are even more vibration-sensitive than the components; see here for the solution.

• You can't believe the extra harshness and grunge you hear due to home appliances "poisoning" the AC power with electrical noise. To really sweeten your sound, try turning off every fluorescent and halogen light in the house, as well as air conditioning, oil burner, electric stove, dimmer and CD boombox; unplug every surge protector, digital TV, computer and U.P.S. (because they all have "sleep" modes). No power conditioner and AC filter stops this "poisoning".

• Weight on top of speakers, amps, CD players, transformers, turntables, and power supplies can tighten bass, clean up treble and clarify midrange detail.

• Too much weight, wrong placement, or wrong materials seriously degrade potential improvements. Don't use lead, sand, concrete, brick, stone, corian or damped laminates. Of course, brass is still best; next iron, then wood.

• The right way to add weight is one (or 1/2) pound at a time. Listen, then add one more. Eventually, one more will deaden everything. Remove the last weight, then move the weights around to find the sweet spots.

• Weights are much more effective if you've replaced rubber feet (or no feet) with wood or brass footers.

• To audibly improve any cheap interconnect, use a razor to carefully peel the thin plastic insulation off the braided metal you'll find underneath. Split 2-channel interconnects and separate the two by several inches. Cut heat shrink and plastic strain reliefs off the back of RCA plugs and remove their metal barrels (if possible). Amoung generic wires, choose the skinniest for best sound.

• For speaker, AC and wall wart power cables always split two-conductor wires and separate by at least 6". Don't forget to keep all wires off artificial fiber rugs and de-static them regularly.

•Never bundle wires, no matter whether AC, speaker or IC. If you must run wires parallel for more than a foot, separate them by 6" or more. Wires that cross at at 45 degrees or more can touch without any sonic degradation.

Technical Questions? Email tweaks@mapleshaderecords.com or call 301-627-7922.

[tboooe]

Wow that was very interesting rav934. I cant attest to everything you suggest but I have tried out your tips on listenting distance and height. I sit pretty close to my speakers (5') and really prefer the full sound I get. I also sit well below the height of my tweeters (I have to slouch in my listening chair).

What do you think about tilting floorstanding speakers back (so the drivers are slanted upwards)? I have heard that this will help with soundstaging. There must be a reason why most of the speaker stands for floorstanders have a modest amount of backwards tilt. Anyone care to comment on this?

[Race Car Driver]

Heh, I read this as I sit on my living room floor with my back against my couch, listening to my 802s......


Me, Im building my rack into the wall behind me, a good 10 feet from my speakers.
Id really like to clean up the look of the room then worry about equal length short speaker wire.

[JKalman]

I suppose if I buy another rack and place them both symmetrically in the correct spaces on either side, they could be used as effective diffusion treatments in the room. Directly behind me, while being one of the best spots for diffusion, unfortunately won't work in my setup because my office is so long and part of it is used for my desks and computers, etc.

[jim777]

• If you have bi-wirable speakers with brass jumper plates, replace the terrible-sounding plates with bare, unstranded copper wire.

Why not just skin off 4 inches of your wire and pass it through both posts instead of using another small piece of wire. No discontinuity. Seams better to me

[JKalman]

I would argue that having an unobstructed soundstage is more beneficial than having longer speaker cable runs.

I agree 100%. I doubt anyone in here is going to use a room so large at home that speaker wire distance is going to ever be an issue. I do however notice very easily how the TV interferes with my system's phantom image, especially when moving the speakers out and back in, it is very easy to hear the 3-Dimensionality, and depth, collapse and grow, and to hear the vocals become more diffuse and gain strength.

[Gump]

Perhaps you might consider having a wall unit built for all your gear. A good drywaller could bring the wall out a couple of feet and then build you niches so you can sink your equipment (including that big Sony TV you previously mentioned getting) . Everything would be flush with the wall and not protruding between the speakers. Other benefits are you can run the speaker wire behind the wall so it looks cleaner.

If done properly it would really look classy, too. Ambiance enhances the listening pleasure!

[JKalman]

Perhaps you might consider having a wall unit built for all your gear. A good drywaller could bring the wall out a couple of feet and then build you niches so you can sink your equipment (including that big Sony TV you previously mentioned getting) . Everything would be flush with the wall and not protruding between the speakers. Other benefits are you can run the speaker wire behind the wall so it looks cleaner.

If done properly it would really look classy, too. Ambiance enhances the listening pleasure!

That wouldn't help much unfortunately since it isn't necessarily simply an issue of being flush with the wall, it is also an issue of the reflectivity of the material. The TV and drywall have different hardness characteristics so the sound waves will react differently depending on which one they bounce off of when they hit the wall.

That is why my best solution down the road for a home theatre, if I decide to transition from a pure audio system back to home theatre, would be a front projector with a retractable screen. The Sony VPL-VW100 would definitely be a consideration if I decide to do this, but first things first, I need to finish getting all the Ayre gear for my system and I need to finish acoustically treating the room thoroughly as well.

[caleb]

Hey RAV 934 - you have got to be taking the P*ss.

I have never heard so much crap put into one reply before.

[aphexist]

Hey RAV 934 - you have got to be taking the P*ss.

I have never heard so much crap put into one reply before.

Considering the fact that he is barely shy of shilling for his snake-oil saturated company, it is not entirely surprising that he is full of crap. That text is a copy/paste job from his website.

[Race Car Driver]

ruh roh... someone said snake oil...


Let me get the popcorn.

[JKalman]

Hey RAV 934 - you have got to be taking the P*ss.

I have never heard so much crap put into one reply before.

Yeah, I pretty much ignored that whole post a few lines into it... Thus, why I never even acknowledged it.

[JKalman]

ruh roh... someone said snake oil...


Let me get the popcorn.

Ah, snake oil, so that's what that greasy stuff is that they put on my popcorn at the Movie Theatres! See, they tell you it is butter, but I knew it wasn't really butter! :