Do you tilt your speakers?

[tboooe]

Hi, first of all Happy New Year to everyone! Here's to a great year and spending more unreasonable amounts of money on audio gear!

I was wondering about speaker tilting. I read that tilting the speaker backwards a bit provides a broader and deeper soundstage. Has anyone tried this?

[Scratch]

I think this is the 1st order crossover thingy. Bass gets slightly delayed by the xover. If your tweeter's at the top & suffers from a lack of alignment, then yes; you can also lay the speaker on its side & toe it in (tweer pointing central of course) I've done that before with excellent results.

Cheers - Scratch

[tboooe]

Scratch:
thanks for the reply. can you please explain further the "1st order crossover thingy"? How does tilting cause this?

also to clarify, you have physically put your speakers on its side so everything is aligned horizonitally??

[EAmin]

Hi, first of all Happy New Year to everyone! Here's to a great year and spending more unreasonable amounts of money on audio gear!

I was wondering about speaker tilting. I read that tilting the speaker backwards a bit provides a broader and deeper soundstage. Has anyone tried this?

My 703s sit on Sound Anchors and are spiked. I raised the front of the speakers higher and like the sound better when they are tilted. The highs are a bit brighter than before, but the bass is tighter.

[Karma]

HI EA,
Not to question what you are hearing but it is a bit wierd. I can understand the increase of high frequencies simply because the tweeter is probably better aligned with your ears.

But the bass?????? I don't understand that at all if the speaker tilt is the only change you made.

Does anybody else understand what is happening here?

Sparky

[grit]

I don't understand it, but then again, I'm not an expert by any means. Perhaps something do to with relections in the room?

[tboooe]

if the speakers are tilted up, wouldnt that make the tweeter less aligned with your ears? Like others here, I dont understand why tilting affects sound. I would love a scientific explanation.

[Karma]

HI tboooe,
Not necessarily. If the tweeter is somewhat misaligned to begin with, the highs would be rolled off a little depending on the amount of misalignment. Tilting the speaker can correct for the misalignment. For example, if the speaker stands are too low (not at ear height) but firing horizontally, they would be misaligned low. Tilting the speaker back so the tweeter is firing slightly up could bring the ears into the proper tweeter axis. This would brighten the sound.

Bass, being essentially non-directional, tends to fill the acoustic space and form pressure zones. Rather than the small scale reflective patterns characteristic of mid range and treble frequencies, bass tends to form large reverberant structures due the long wavelengths. We know these as standing waves (and travelling waves). Moving the speaker can change the pattern of these waves. If you happen to be sitting at a room node where the standing wave forms, you will hear exagerated sound at a particular frequency and its harmonics.

Moving the speaker will change where the standing waves form and will give the imperssion of different (not worse or better) bass response. But merely tilting the speaker should have no effect on the standing wave pattern. Thus, tilting should not change the the bass response. That's what I don't understand.

Sparky

[EAmin]

HI EA,
Not to question what you are hearing but it is a bit wierd. I can understand the increase of high frequencies simply because the tweeter is probably better aligned with your ears.

But the bass?????? I don't understand that at all if the speaker tilt is the only change you made.

Does anybody else understand what is happening here?

Sparky

Hi Karma! My media room is carpeted. I tried the 703s on the Sound Anchors with no spikes. The bass was kinda boomy (like it was just on the carpet directly). I noticed when I spiked the SAs and tilted them up that I had less boominess. The tighter bass may have been a result of the spiking more than the tilting. But I did the two at the same time. I like the sound, and am keeping them in this position. Thanks!

[Karma]

HI EA,
Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure the spiking caused the difference in the bass. It's amazing how such a little thing like spikes can be worth so much sonically. I also spike my speakers. In fact I spike everything in sight! I even spike my amp stand.

On the 805S's one can spike the speakers to the stands and then spike the stands to the floor. For a spike person like me this is the end of the rainbow!

I do not tilt my 805's because the height of the stands provides nearly perfect ear alignment. There is a theory held by some audiophiles that tilting the speakers slightly changes the relative arrival times from the drivers thus providing better phase alignment of wave fronts being simultaniously emitted from two drivers. I'm skeptical that it does any good because the change is small relative to the phase shifts that result from the crossover networks. The theory could be snake oil. But I also think it is harmless.

Sparky

[Scratch]

Sorry for the confusion folks; I meant time alignment. The bass is delayed marginally such that the treble reaches you before the bass signal; it's that slight that an inch or more can correct - if you go fishing especially amongst some older designs, you'll find that a few with time alignment correction simply have separated their tweeter from the baffle and typically reboxed the unit independantly (quite often a box sat on top of the main cabinet) which is set back a little from the bass driver. I'd point out that if you live several thousand metres above sea level, you'll probably want a slightly different setting to someone who lives at the bottom of a mine shaft (air pressure affecting velocity of sound). Although as Sparky says; it is only a very small phase shift, you only have to speak to the SE Tube officionardos to get an idea as to the strength of feeling on these time based "distortions".

also to clarify, you have physically put your speakers on its side so everything is aligned horizonitally??

- depends on your speakers of course, but since many (most?) of us are towing the speakers inwards (such as to form a coincidence just prior to the listening area) the toe-in will partially accomodate the "re-alignment".
Hope that helps.

Cheers - Scratch

[worldys]

I always tilt my floor speakers up at the toe. Have found that the soundstage deepens considerably without affecting imaging. This is true with all the b&w speakers I have owned (9nt, 804, 803, 802). I also have found that with the use of sound anchors (or equivalent floor stands) and proper positioning, I can tighten up the bass considerably.

[EastCoaster]

I'm sure the spiking caused the difference in the bass. It's amazing how such a little thing like spikes can be worth so much sonically. I also spike my speakers. In fact I spike everything in sight! I even spike my amp stand.

On the 805S's one can spike the speakers to the stands and then spike the stands to the floor. For a spike person like me this is the end of the rainbow!

Hi Karma - hope you don't mind if a I ask a newbie question - what's "spiking"? 8O I sure would like to try some of that when my speakers come in....

[tboooe]

worldys, how much do you tilt your speakers back? in other words, how much do you raise the front of the speaker in relation to the rear?

can anyone explain why the soundstage deepens with tilting?

[worldys]

the front usually ends up tilted about 3/4 of an inch, depends a bit on the speaker and stand that i use, i am no audio engineer and only a novice in audio, but to me it seems that having angled sound vibrations hit you sligthly above sitting ear level, gives the perception that they traveled more distance so when you close your eyes, you feel like the stage is set further back, i often toe my speakers slightly in, when when i do that i feel like i get the best of both worlds, a big soundstage that still images well

[Karma]

HI East,
Sorry, this is a bit late, I hope you see it.

About 20 years ago, a small accessory company called the Mod Squad came out with a product called Tip Toes. They were intended to replace the stock mounting pads specifically on speakers. You would screw these sharpened metal studs into the speakers base. The speaker box now would sit on these "spikes".

The idea was the Tip Toes would transfer the vibrational energy very efficiently from the box to a mechanical ground (the floor) thus reducing the coloration from the box. These caught on very quickly and gaied the generic nic name "spikes". Pretty soon people were spiking everything from their tone arms to their amps and equipment stands.

Now almost every speaker comes with spikes. They proved to be very effective especially if the mechanical ground was a slab foundation. Suspended floors were less successful (and fragile). I spike everything that I can. Amps, turntable tonearms, equipment stands, speakers, speaker stands, CD players, and anything else where its possible. The effects can be subtle but are accumlative. The result is a firming up of the sound in a number of ways. Every equipment type reacts differently. Some react negatively. Better image, soundstage, firmer bass, more cohesive mid range. The list goes on.

Next to designer cables, they are one of hi fi's great success stories. The nice thing is they are not expensive...... usually. Of course you can get designer spikes which are priced beyond all reason.

Sparky