How long to wait til I judge my speakers?

[monk_d_syple]

Hi I just got new speakers 604s + lcr600. It will be a week tomorrow. I was wondering how long it takes for the speakers to fully break in. the 604s sound great, the 600 is not quite there yet. Its giving out to low a sound still. I know I know, I have to work on acoustics big time, but I had the 602 5 s3 with lcr60 and was very disappointed. Dealer let me switch, no sweat. the lcr600 sounds about as good as the 60(after 3mths). Will it, like the 60 improve. Oh on another note, uh, should my eardrums be aching after watching a DVD? Currently that is the case with the 600. I'm having to put the bass down to -12. Is it my room size? 3m by 5m. Are the 600/604s too big for my room? I was hoping the 600 would give more detail, dialogue-wise but it just gives more bass. I know I'm not in the 700 and 800 world, but I figured, B&W should be good what ever the series. As I said the 604s sound so much better than 602 5 s3s. I'm hoping the 600 will give me similar satisfaction. Tips are appreciated, I know nothing about audio (I think it shows). I have a good dealer, who'll let me exchange if necessary; so early and precise tips would be very handy. I'm using music fidelity A class 50s amps (5)to run each speaker. Was told that was a definite plus. Denon processor AVR 1905. The dealer said it was an average amp but good processor. Dialogue is key for me, I love movies with dialogue over Action. I'll go crazy if this doesn't improve. To 6, 7 and 800 Joes. What size rooms are you in? Any issues similar to mine? Solution? Cheers everyone. I hope I'm not a bore to all the hardcore audio heads.

[audioqueso]

How long are you playing them a day? I have used the same method for breaking in my speakers (this included my 600 series as well). Hooked them up the first day, did some serious listening to hear all the pros and cons. If you can leave for a weekend and leave them playing with some complex music (think lots of instruments and hard notes), then that would be the easiest way. If not, what I usually do is once I listen to them once, I leave use them for watching tv and watching tv only for about 2 weeks (sometimes longer). Then I listen to my music again to hear the change. Playing over the weekend seems to work the best since it's in a short period of time so you can hear the changes faster. Either way works. Just the tv method requires patience.

[Karma]

HI,
I have read that the 805S's need 300 hours. I don't know if that is true but based on my experience with other speakers, I belive it.

The folks who do reviews professionally play mono white noise through the speakers with the speakers facing one another and spaced as close as possible. They reverse the +- leads on one speaker so the speakers are out of phase. This means the sound from one speaker more or less cancils the sound from the other. Then they turn up the volume (don't go crazy with the volume) a bit then go away for a week or so. The cancilation reduces the irratation factor.

Personally, I just use them normally. I enjoy hearing the speakers gradually tune in but it does take a while. My Martin Logan CLSllA's took about 500 hours to fully brake in but most of the job was done in the first 100 hours. After that the changes were small but over time added up.

Sparky

[monk_d_syple]

Cheers guys,

Well the 604s sound better each day and the 600 is improving. Could it be that our ears are actually adjusting to the sound of the speakers, more than the spkrs improving? Just curious. Oh no one answered the question on whether a room sized 3m by 5m is adequate for 600/604s. Cheers again everyone

[dyazdani]

Your room should be just fine with those speakers. Most rooms need some amount (usually large) of acoustical treatment to sound their best. Some bass traps or broadband absorbers in the corners would probably tighten things up a bit on the low end.

You might also try adjusting your listening position and/or pull the speakers away from the rear wall. Do one thing at a time so you can tell what helps the most.

[Sim reality]

I know there is people that say that it's our "ears" breaking in...

But given that some weeks I listen to my car stereo 5x more then my HT, my "ears" should be more accustomed to my car speakers then my 603s so if they sounded harsh in contrast to my car speakers when I just bought them, they should still have some harshness but they don't.

I think 3m by 5m is fine... If room seems a little small (IE: the speakers are too boomy) try using the bungs and moving it an inch or two away from the wall but it's all personal preference... Think of it like a equilizer... You are mixing the sound to fit your tastes and not someone elses.

[PewterTA]

I would recommend if you listen an hour or two or three a day with them, give yourself about 3 to 4 weeks to really start enjoying them. So about 50 - 100 hours...but the longer the better.

To me the problems you are having with the LCR600 stems from either you not used to it, your current position of the speaker, or your components/wiring. Position has a lot to do with it. You want to make sure the speaker is close to the height you sit at. If not, you want to aim (as much as possible) the speaker in that direction (either up or down depending on where the speaker is placed). Your components could be causing a lot of the problem, perhaps they are not working well with the LCR600. I know mine is clear as day...heck I can easily hear the dialog through all the other noises going on...I can even hear how "boxy" the voices sound coming from it. But it is a good speaker! Using your Denon and Musical Fidelity X-A50 (that's the one you have?) amp is okay, but honestly, the speakers need some more power to them. I'm running the Rotel RMB-1095 to the center 600/604s and it's about perfect for me (Until I get the 800s ). No problems with dialog and no listener fatigue. I've gone almost 8 hours worth of listening with NO fatigue to my ears...maybe a little to my backside, but I can't fault the speakers of that. lol

My room is just about the same size as your, slightly smaller as I'm deciding to build or move for the home theater...so I know those speakers work fine in that setup. Heck I even have 4 602 S3s as surround and they all work in harmony in the room.

[Karma]

Cheers guys,

Well the 604s sound better each day and the 600 is improving. Could it be that our ears are actually adjusting to the sound of the speakers, more than the spkrs improving? Just curious. Oh no one answered the question on whether a room sized 3m by 5m is adequate for 600/604s. Cheers again everyone

HI,
Whether or not we adjust to the speakers is an individual thing. Personally I know what to listen for. I have many years of listening experience auditioning mucho high end systems both mine and professionally. I know my hearing well and I know what to listen for (at least I tell myself so). The better the equipment the easier this becomes.

But really, experience does remove the crap shoot factor to a large extent. After a while your ears become highly tuned, sensitive, objective test tools much like using a distortion analyzer. Critical listening is not mystical. It is discipline combined with methodology. I think if you ask anyone with long experience and they will tell you the same thing. You eventually learn to listen past what you want to hear and hear what is really there.

Then we must account for taste. You and I may never agree on what we think sounds best. We each develop taste in sound reproduction. To some degree physical differences with our hearing may account for some of the disagreement. In the long haul, audio associates whose hearing I respect and who have made different equipment and room decisions assemble fine sounding systems. The differences between their choices and mine are not a matter of quality but of taste. They feel the same about my decisions. To each his own; right? This has been the subject of many late hour discussions.

Sparky

[audioqueso]

I know there is people that say that it's our "ears" breaking in...

Nah, I doubt that cause my method would prove me wrong if it was just our ears.

[JKalman]

A couple of weeks of listening for a few hours a night during the week and a little extra on weekends and the detail really started to bloom on the 802D.

[monk_d_syple]

Hi guys,

cheers for the numerous feedbacks. The 604s are really starting to open up. The sound is panoramic and in that I mean, it evenly covers up the room. And the detail of high pitches and low are much clearer than the 602s. The 600 is improving but I think I need to work on my room for it to be perfect. Uh, some of you gave me tips and tools to purchase, can I get these tools at a dealer or ....? Good day all

[JKalman]

I have a great text that has a chapter which covers the science of room treatments and the physics of sound, it is a book about professional recording.

Total Recording

I'll look through my link library for some sites and post them if I find any as well...

[JKalman]

Here are a few that might help:

B&W FAQ: 2 Channel and Surround Placement

Home Theatre Placement

Speaker Adjustments and other great FAQs

List of Room Treatment Articles

[monk_d_syple]

Cheers again. This is great info. It's really frustrating, buying gear to have a decent system and then finding out you have be an interior decorator too. Well I'll work on all this surely and slowly. On the issue of the center spkr being at ear high, I've seen tonnes of posts where people have their center spkrs almost on the floor. Mine is not ear but about 4ocm above the floor. Would ear height make such a huge difference.

[JKalman]

I hear ya, I really wish I could dedicate a room just for music, but I have to wait till my kids are older and don't need their playroom anymore. Then I'll be able to build a decent sized theatre and a separate dedicated music room (I recently decided the differences between HT and Audio is significant enough to give a separate space to each).

[Karma]

HI,
Ear height placement would be ideal but that would usually make the TV hard to see through the speaker. Not practical. So you do the best you can to get it as close as possible. For instance, my center is mounted just over the top of my HDTV exactly at the lateral center of the screen. This places it above ear height by about 1.5 feet. Not ideal but it's the best I can do.

To partially compensate, the speaker, an HD4S, is tilted down so the tweeter at the top of the enclosure is aimed exactly at the proper ear height at my listening position. The front of the speaker is aligned with the front of the screen.

Even though the position is high, it seems to work well and correlate the dialog from the speaker with the screen activity. I really don't hear a problem.

Sparky

[monk_d_syple]

Well I guess I'll have to get a NEW table for my cntr spkr. Was planning to anyway. On another note, Happy soon to be birthday Sparky.


Everytime I look at 805s I get a twitch. They look so nice. Oh no!

[monk_d_syple]

Well guys I've been working on my room and added furniture in the room beside it. Huge difference. I was wondering, the fact that our speakers produce so much power, could this be the reason why boomy sounds are facors with many people? Therefore wouldn't we be better off with smaller systems. Ex, lcr 60 rather than lcr600 in my case. Or 603 rather than 604s. Both larger systems sounded better than the smaller ones at the dealer. Not convinced at my place yet. But I'll be patient this time. What do you all think? i'd be curious to hear from 800 maestros.


last night I dreamt I owned Rosenut 805s. Ok, I really need help! You guys made me like this. :W

Good wkend to all

[RobP]

Monk , it really wouldnt matter on the size of the system, a smaller system would excite those room nodes and resonances as well, it just may take a little more volume to get them there. Your speakers are great, just get them placed where you need them and then work on the room.