Venting - B&W Audiogon scam

[dan87951]

So I see a set of speakers for sale on audiogon from a new seller (0 feedback)that I want to buy and I email the seller. I get a response back and he says I was the first one to email him and that he will wait for my response until he sells to someone else. So we work out a deal and he agrees to it. I log into my paypal account and get ready to send him $4400 and I click the next page only to find out hes not a verified member (first red flag) so I shoot him a call and he said he was just verifying it now and it will take a few days to go through. I tell him I'm not comfortable sending that large amount of money via paypal to a nonverified member so lets do COD and he agrees (but sounded hesitant on the phone). After wasting a few hours getting the funds in order to get ready to pay for the speakers he calls me and says I got bad news. I said what COD charges alot? He said no "I just forgot I promised the speakers to someone else" I said What?? (second red flag) at this point I said whatever I felt an obvious scam was being detected and said good luck with the sale. I just can't believe these scammers are now resorting to audiogon! I guess my moral of the story is be extra cautious when purchasing from anyone no matter what site its from. Take extra precautions to make sure both you and the seller are safe from fraud even if it means spending a few extra bucks!

[tdiciple]

Hi Dan,

Can you tell us who is the seller?

[dan87951]

Sure can. The sellers name is Reijo and he just opened his account with audiogon as well so he has 0 feedback.

[Rolex]

Not meaning to play the devils advocate here, it may be that he didn't want to mess with COD and felt that lying to you (I forgot I have another buyer) was his way of backing out and selling local, or to someone willing to send money order.

I know that you see scams like this on Ebay all the time, but they aren't as common on audiogon. I think for the most part, the sellers on audiogon are honest sellers, and only recently with the onslaught of members have there been more scams.

Luckily you ended the deal when you thought it was sour.

[Lex]

It's real simple, as a buyer, just say, well I only do business through IEscrow or similar service and I will pay all the fees for it. I will send my money to them, you send your speakers to me only after they say they have my cash. Then when I get my speakers, you get your cash. A con will never agree to it.

Agon is no longer safe harbor from scammers. In fact, the high dollar values there has probably increased greatly the odds of being scammed there.

Doug

[Rolex]

It's real simple, as a buyer, just say, well I only do business through IEscrow or similar service and I will pay all the fees for it. I will send my money to them, you send your speakers to me only after they say they have my cash. Then when I get my speakers, you get your cash. A con will never agree to it.

Agon is no longer safe harbor from scammers. In fact, the high dollar values there has probably increased greatly the odds of being scammed there.

Doug

That's true, but that can be a long drawn out process, and not all Escrows are safe. Plus, I've done business with a fair number of audiogon members before, and have developed relationships. I don't believe escrow is necessary all the time.

Audiogon never really was a safe harbor from scammers, but there are fewer on audiogon than on Ebay. Proportionally, even.

[dyazdani]

I always look at the level of feedback first, I won't buy from anyone who has zero - I don't care what they are selling or how bad I want it. I also check for strange patterns in feedback, such as feedback left by people with low scores themselves or all feedback on the same day, etc.

I have been lucky so far, I have never been scammed on either eBay or Audiogon with any purchase or sale.

The closest I came was when one of the idiots at UPS dropped off the $2000 CD player I had sold (shipped COD) without collecting the money, no one was home. Luckily the buyer was honest and sent it to me via snail mail.

Danish

[tdiciple]

I have to agree in that Escrow is a bit too much for Seller to handle. I have over 6000+ transaction on ebay and none of them are using Escrow.

As a matter of fact, user that requested escrows are actually scammers that are trying to steal the product without paying.

I know that they are many scammers on ebay for B&W Speakers, however, I have not seen the same case on Audiogon. Maybe the fact that they require you to pay before you post, prevent some of that thing to happen.

I have seen Reijo listing, and when I asked about his listings, he just said that it is sold already. So I cannot test whether he is real or not.

I still do believe though that we have to be extra carefull with whatever purchase done on the internet. I cannot even began to tell you how much money I had lose to a dead beat buyers/scammers and the ugly duckling paypal.

[RobP]

Tdiciple, speaking of scams, it looks as if someone listed another scam auction on Ebay using pictures of your setup.

[tdiciple]

The same guy as before. The guy just cannot stop doing this. I don't know what else should I do.

[masterwick]

I saw Reijo's items for sale on Audiogon as well and decided against once he did not respond to my emails requesting additional photos. I try to go with people that care what others think about them and have some sort of integrity.

On ebay, there are general tell-tale signs that an account has been hi-jacked or they are fake selling items. Unfortunately its caveat emptor in this world and most of these people know to use an unlisted/cell phone when you talk to them. Even if you were going to go after them, it makes it difficult to track them down, but I am sure there are ways.

Unfortunately there are plenty of scumbags out and about.

[tdiciple]

I am quite frustrated with the way ebay handle this matter. I have reported ebay regarding this guy, and they just refuse to do anything.

There just no simple way to report this to the police or something. And it is not only my pictures. They let this thing go on and on.

[RNKC]

Damn. I started to shy away from eBay because of the rampant scams on both the buying and selling sides. Now it seems that it might be starting on Audiogon as well. I was hoping we'd have one safe place to deal in the high-end stuff.

[FiberTek]

Tdiciple, what setup is Soundgravy speaking of. I'm currently looking at some B&W's on Ebay and I would hate to get scammed! Thanks.
Jeff

[dyazdani]

That would be this one...

eBay Scam

[tdiciple]

My stolen picture listing is item 5836084726 by blondefem4u43of

Actually, pretty much most of B&W Nautilus series on ebay right now are fraud. You can detect them if they say, they have many, and you have to email them. And you can get it at much lesser price than it should be. (in this case $800.00)

Also if the listing is just for 1 or 3 days, with a lot of different pictures.

The seller gain access to many user with various feedback and try to sell this item continously for the past two month.

IT is pretty scarry out there in the ebay for B&W world.

[SRT-10 Viper]

When buying from ebay... Pay via Paypal with a credit card that protects you. I did this and was scammed $2500. My final cost $0 "Priceless".

[SRT-10 Viper]

Also, look to see last time a transaction was recorded... If it's been a couple years, it could be a stolen id.

[RobP]

I sold a Viking grill awhile back on Ebay and the buyer requested using Escrow.com, It is a ebay approved site. The process was very safe and easy for both the buyer and me. No problems there.

[RobP]

That would be this one...

eBay Scam

I wouldnt worry about anyone winning that auction and getting scammed now. :twisted:

[FiberTek]

Thanks for the reply. Damn, now I found a Musical Fidelity amp that may be a fraud. Same listing on Audiogon & Ebay. I emailed the ebay seller and he says he's the original owner and that's not his listing on Audiogon. This stinks!
Jeff

[dyazdani]

Robert,

That is funny...

[Wizard-of-Odd]

If I am suspicious of a B&W speaker on Ebay, I always due one or more of the following:
- Ask if you can use an escrow service if you pay the fees
- Ask if local pickup is OK, or ask if you can see the speakers
- Contact the seller using Ebay's "ask the seller a question"
Also check out the item location against the Ebay member location. If the price is in GB pounds, buyer location is London and the item location is Illinois, good chance something is wrong.

Peace,

[RobP]

Also, If you do ever buy anything online DO NOT PAY WITH WESTERN UNION!! They can say that they are in Booger Valley Missouri, but really they are in London. I actually got one of these jerks to converse with me on A.I.M, he finally told me how pulled these things off. He basicly makes up a fake ID of the name that he gives you and goes to the WU depot and picks his money up and walks away. :x
He thought it was real funny. He probably doesnt think its funny now, since he was on AOL I copied the whole thing and reported him to AOL and Ebay. That has been about six months now and I have not seen his style of scam auction on Ebay nor have I seen his various names come up on AOL. Maybe they nabbed him. :

[RobP]

Here is a little tool to use to see if that person you are buying from is located where he or she says they are from,

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

you can usually get their IP address from the email header, just put in the address and it will tell you where the email came from. :T

[tdiciple]

Great tool Robert.

Good to know.

Fred

[tdiciple]

BTW, the fraud ebay auction is cancelled and that user is now not a registered user.

Anybody did something today? I know I reported the guy about 1-2 week ago. but not lately.

Please share the way you do it, so we can effectively ends this type of scam easily next time.

[RobP]

I jumped on it yesterday, just get the auction number and report it throught the security center link at the bottom of the page.

[Lex]

That's funny, I just used that tool on Robert's IP, and it says he's really in Iceland. Is that true Robert, you scammin' us? (I'm kidding of course, the preceding was not a real scam alert, it was only a test of the Scammers broadcasting System) BEEEEP end of test.

Lex

[grit]

Unfortunately, internet scams usually cross city, county, and state state lines. This makes determining 'where' the crime takes place very difficult. Authenticating postings on the internet is complicated. Proving the person who listed the items in question never possessed them in the first place is almost impossible. And I don't think there is ANY way to prove they did not ship an item if they claim they did not use a tracking number. All of this makes your local district attorney's office unlikely to submit the case for prosecution, and that's assuming the suspect can even be located. Finally, a guilty verdict in a criminal prosecution will not get you $.01 of your money back. You'll need to file a civil lawsuit. And if some weenie is scamming people out of money, they don't likely have any money with which to repay you.

I've been on the investigating side of these scams, and I've been the victim. In the latter case, the seller had several transactions and an almost 100% positive rating on e-bay. His history was consistant across the last year. Didn't appear hijacked. The ONLY thing I blew was agreeing to send a money order. Kissed $400.00 goodbye. It appeared the guy decided he needed some money and sacrificed his otherwise good e-bay account to do so.

For any future high-end purchases, I'd ask for a photo of the seller next to the item and a photo of the serial number on the item. If I'm selling you my high-end, expensive equipment, I'll do it. Furthermore, any manufacture will tell you if the serial number is valid, and any local police department will run the serial number through the national stolen property database.

Be careful!

[Wizard-of-Odd]

Couple of good ones on Ebay - a pair of N802's and a pair of N804's. Shipping and handling - 4.95 via Priority Mail! Oh yeah, insurance is only 1.30 ............

Kevin

[RobP]

That's funny, I just used that tool on Robert's IP, and it says he's really in Iceland. Is that true Robert, you scammin' us? (I'm kidding of course, the preceding was not a real scam alert, it was only a test of the Scammers broadcasting System) BEEEEP end of test.

Lex

:rofl: They're on to me! Time to run! :rofl:

[PewterTA]

Hee hee, it says it can't locate my address... NICE!

[dan87951]

Wow a crap load of B&W Listings on audiogon just appeared today and look very fishy! Of course all the pictures look familure ie ebay.. I just got a heck of a deal on a set of sig 800's for $3k! Don't worry its legit! haha