Help a newbie: describe your B&W soundstage

[tboooe]

As some of you may know I am now without my speakers. But that is a long, sad story...not fit for unsuspecting ears.

In the meantime, I want to try and learn more about what I should be getting out of my system. I am a relative newbie to this crazy addiction/hobby.

In my quest for knowledge, I humbly request that people describe the soundstage they get with their setup. Please take pity on a newbie and refrain from using lingo as I am not sure what it means.

In particular, I am interested to understand the following:
1. what does a "deep" soundstage sound like? Does this mean you hear different layers of instruments?
2. where does your soundstage begin? Is the music project forward from the speakers or is it flush along the frontal plane?
3. what does a wide soundstage mean? Does this mean music is projected wider than where the speakers physically are?
4. how centered and focused should the music be? In my setup, with very little toe in, I get a very focused sound right in the middle but is it too focused? I think I am losing stereo imaging but I am not sure.

I know someone will say its all up to my preferences but I just want to hear what other people have so that I can learn.

Thanks for your input.

[Briz vegas]

tboooe, I too would not claim to be an expert but I can describe what I can hear from my 705s. I have some CDs where instruments appear to come from wider that the speakers and have always referred to this as a wide soundstage. My soundstage begins forward of the speakers but this also varies with the material as sometimes it is in line.

I think that a pin point central image is a good thing. Listening to the title track from Massive Attack's Blue Lines I hear the different vocals coming from 3 different places between the speakers, one just to the left of center, one just to the right and one central. To me this is good imaging, close your
eyes and you can pinpoint various apparent sources of the sound. The central image varies from CD to CD most likely based on how it was recorded/mixed.

I understand deep to be similar to wide, but with sounds appearing to be further back than the speakers. I do not notice this as much as a wide soundstage, sometimes I wonder about the whole depth thing. I have noticed one thing - whenever I have listened to music in hifi shops the soundstaging and imaging are never as good as they are on my home system.

PS sorry to read that your fab new 804s were a little worse for wear. I hope you get some replacements soon. I would hate to be without my system.

[RobP]

Hey Tboooe,

Instead of trying to describe in words how your system should should image I have a little project for you to help you get a good reference in setting up your speakers correctly, First, find some music that is recorded well, a good cd to use is Sara K's "Play on Words". The last track on this cd is a great recording that shows great stereo separation, and has a awsome soundstage. you can hear where each performer is placed in the room, as well as the space in between them. You can also hear the room signature of the studio which makes you feel as if you are there.

Next, either buy you a set of really good headphones, or visit a dealer that sells them and listen to your chosen reference matierial. You will hear how that recording should sound, you will see the soundstage and where the performers are as well as hear them.This will then give you something to shoot for in setting up your speakers. Just like B&W says "Listen and you will see" :T

[PewterTA]

1. what does a "deep" soundstage sound like? Does this mean you hear different layers of instruments?

Deep refers to the direction straight in front of you. Instruments/singers should sound either closer, or farther away from you. I have one CD I listen to (it's a Dave Matthews CD, can't remember which one), but you can positively tell that the drums are further back than the violin/sax/guitars and Dave Matthew's hims singing. You can tell where each one is in a relative "depth" from where one sits.

2. where does your soundstage begin? Is the music project forward from the speakers or is it flush along the frontal plane?

My sound stage begins (again depth) at the speaker, maybe slightly before it and extends back behind the speaker maybe 10 feet or so (relative to the music as there's not 10ft of space behind my speakers). All the music/sound seems to come from that area when I listen.

3. what does a wide soundstage mean? Does this mean music is projected wider than where the speakers physically are?

Yes, it means that you actually hear sounds "outside" of the physical location of the speakers. This also means that you hear, to what some refer to, a "phantom" center channel. So the singer of a song sounds directly in front of you, yet there is no speaker there. This also refers to the fact that instruments/sounds come from outside of the speakers... I can't tell you how many times I would've sworn noises were made in areas where there are no speakers (inbetween the Left/Right and the Left/Right Surrounds. It's sort of creepy while watching a movie....

4. how centered and focused should the music be? In my setup, with very little toe in, I get a very focused sound right in the middle but is it too focused? I think I am losing stereo imaging but I am not sure.

I think as long as you are getting vocals from the center and other things like cymbals, guitars, whatever you are listening to comes from outside the "center" area, you are okay and actually getting a BETTER stereo image. If everything seems to come from the center than yes, you lost the good stereo definition. It's like listening to a mono sourced TV station on a surround sound system, where everything comes from the center channel, then switching over to a good stereo/DD station and the difference is amazing. A lot of the stereo imaging also goes back to how well the source was recorded... If you pick up some of the CDs and what not listed in the Audio forum here, then you should get a good idea what you should be hearing in the music...

Hope that helps....

And I notice all this from my lowly B&W DM604 S3s...

[tboooe]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the input.

RP, I will get that Sarah K cd.

If my memory serves me right, I dont think I was getting the kind of soundstage that all of you are describing. I think I need to play with positioning more. Hopefully, I can get this speaker thing all sorted out so I can get back to the business of enjoying music.