Got my new 804S, that's the bad news!

[tboooe]

As some of you know, I have been waiting to receive my new 804S speakers. After 2 weeks they finally came. Unfortunately, that is also the bad news. Right away I noticed the boxes were in pretty bad shape! One of the speakers had substantial cosmetic damage behind the speaker grill. It looks like a portion of the grill was pressed and rubbing against the face of the speaker. This caused several very deep scratches. The story gets worse however. So in spite of this, I connect the speakers up anyway. Right away I notice more bass. Great! However, I also notice a lack of highs. Guess what? The other speaker's mid and tweeter does not work!!!! Of course I tried switching the speaker cables (Right to Left, Left to Right), switching polarity, different songs...Nothing fixed it. So what I am left with is a badly damaged speaker which sounds great, and one that looks great but sounds horrible.

Here is where I start to get really frustrated. I call my dealer and right away they start to blame UPS or B&W. I dont really care who is at fault. All I know for sure is that I am not at fault. I paid for new speakers that work so I think I should get what I paid for right? I was expecting my dealer to go ahead and order a replacement speaker pair right away and get them to me as soon as possible. Instead, she is saying I have to wait for UPS to come out and start an investigation. Who knows how long this will take. Even though I am not to blame at all for this, I am the one that has to deal with the inconvenience of taking time off work to meet UPS and having to wait who knows how much longer to get my speakers! I understand these are fairly expensive speakers so it is not easy for my dealer to put out more oney to get another pair. But since it is totally obvious I am not to blame shouldnt they deal with UPS or B&W themselves and leave me out of it?? Obviously, the dealer already took my money for the speakers yet I am not getting any benefit from them. So basically I got nothing for my money.

This is very frustrating...

[shadow]

You buy mail order? If not, you have a very crummy dealer. :M

[Mark_C.]

I'm confused. If you purchased through the dealer, why wouldn't you pick up the speakers from your dealer? Why would they be delivered by UPS? The only time I had brand new Nautilus 804s delivered by UPS to my house was when I purchased them from a dealer on the other side of the country in a completely unauthorized and unethical transaction.

[akhter]

As some of you know, I have been waiting to receive my new 804S speakers. After 2 weeks they finally came. Unfortunately, that is also the bad news. Right away I noticed the boxes were in pretty bad shape! One of the speakers had substantial cosmetic damage behind the speaker grill. It looks like a portion of the grill was pressed and rubbing against the face of the speaker. This caused several very deep scratches. The story gets worse however. So in spite of this, I connect the speakers up anyway. Right away I notice more bass. Great! However, I also notice a lack of highs. Guess what? The other speaker's mid and tweeter does not work!!!! Of course I tried switching the speaker cables (Right to Left, Left to Right), switching polarity, different songs...Nothing fixed it. So what I am left with is a badly damaged speaker which sounds great, and one that looks great but sounds horrible.

Here is where I start to get really frustrated. I call my dealer and right away they start to blame UPS or B&W. I dont really care who is at fault. All I know for sure is that I am not at fault. I paid for new speakers that work so I think I should get what I paid for right? I was expecting my dealer to go ahead and order a replacement speaker pair right away and get them to me as soon as possible. Instead, she is saying I have to wait for UPS to come out and start an investigation. Who knows how long this will take. Even though I am not to blame at all for this, I am the one that has to deal with the inconvenience of taking time off work to meet UPS and having to wait who knows how much longer to get my speakers! I understand these are fairly expensive speakers so it is not easy for my dealer to put out more oney to get another pair. But since it is totally obvious I am not to blame shouldnt they deal with UPS or B&W themselves and leave me out of it?? Obviously, the dealer already took my money for the speakers yet I am not getting any benefit from them. So basically I got nothing for my money.

This is very frustrating...

I you indeed bought from a legitimate dealer, you should call B&W and report them. Also, if you paid by credit card especially by Visa or Amex, call them and dispute the charge. That usually gets their attention.

[george_k]

I agree with akhter,

B&W takes their customers pretty seriously, send them a detailed email about the inciden along with a electronic copy of the receipt, also include your dealer's information. If your dealer is authorized they will take care of it.

[Gump]

That is a tragic tale. I feel terrible for you. If your dealer doesnt step up and do the right thing you should tell them you're going to make a complaint to the Better Business Bureau. And this is the way the stereo gods repay you after going to that wedding too.....sad.

[tboooe]

Thanks guys. I bought from an authorized dealer in another area that I happened to be while on a trip.

I will indeed contact B&W.

Am I wrong for expecting my dealer to send me a new pair without having to wait for the outcome of the UPS investigation?

AND i did attend that crummy wedding...oh why do the stereo gods foresake me sooo!!!????

[Azeke]

UPS is not very good with "fragile items", and their investigations usually provide the consumer with replacement value. Just ensure you have receipts and tracking invoices.

In reference to your question, I would put myself in the dealer shoes, and put the weight on the transporter of the goods, in this case UPS. Wouldn't you?

However, I would maintain a log and contact all parties involved, (UPS, the dealer, B&W), including names, times, dates and any comments. Be patient, I'm sure things will work out for you as long as you are diligent.

Just FYI, if the dealer ends up shipping again, don't have them ship via UPS, request another carrier. Just my humble thoughts.

Good luck,

Azeke

[Cowanrg]

IMO,

its completely the dealer's fault for not having them send with a signature required. if they would have requested a signature, you get to at least inspect the boxes before you sign for the boxes. it makes life a lot easier. i had a customer who had shipping damage from a pair of B&W's, but we had a signature mandatory. he didnt sign, told them to send them back, and all was good.

plus, that dealer should be reported to B&W for their actions. they shouldnt discount and ship speakers out of their area, its against their agreement. fair or not, they have a signed legal document that says they arent allowed to do that.

[RobP]

Hey Tommy, That B&W dealer will eat those, They are not supposed to have items drop-shipped to you for any reason, Every time I need something from my dealer, they order it and call me in when it gets there, as a matter of fact they dont even open the boxes until I get there to witness them opening them. UPS can jack anything thing up, if you shipped a skunk they would loose the stink! I purchased a pair of new in the box N803's from a friend, I shipped them 2nd day air, and they still arrived damaged.

[misterdoggy]

tboooe,

I ship $50,000 a year with UPS and its been 7 years since I had a problem.

Firstly, the "sender" is the "insured" party, not you, and they are the ones to get re-imbursed as being the insured party they have to make the claim. When UPS inspects they will see the damage and will have to accept responsibility as B&W boxes probably pass shipping requirements for that weight.

You have many avenues as well, the dealer sold outside of his area and that could lose him the distribution. You could make this known that you will contact B&W direct. It will have to be their main offices in the USA.

Contact information for B&W (in the UK) http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...ocal.contactus

Their telephone in the UK is
Telephone: +dial 01144 1903221800

If it was a charge by correspondance, meaning that he took your credit card details over the phone, you have more leeway in refusing to pay, but you would have to say he "stole" your card number. You didn't authorize it (or him to sell broken speakers) Still card companies like to settle these things amicably.

Also for the card company if you have proof you sent the speakers back and this shows that the transaction was not completed because of your dis-satifaction, then it is a reason to cancel the charge. If you have the speakers in 'your' possession and try to cancel then the dealer shows the card compnay that you 'accepted' and 'have' the goods in dispute.

There is no question UPS must come and have a insurance inspector look at the damage.

Lastly, none of this what-so-ever has anything to do with the speaker that is malfunctioning as that falls under the guarantee and is covered by B&W.

A good dealer would step up to the plate and order another pair, but a poor dealership might not have the funds and can only take them back and send them back for another pair.

Bummer, basically. I had a pair of 803S' come to me and I sold them to someone else. When I sent them, the boxes really held up perfectly. If I remember they fit in to styrofoam on top and bottom and the grills are several inches from the wall of the carton, so there must be a huge hole in the side to cause such damage.

This had to be evident to the delivery man. It would have been easier to reufse the shipment.

I'm afraid you are between a "rock and a hard place". Your wait continues. :bash:

[tboooe]

thanks for the input everyone. i will wait for the UPS adjuster to see what happens.

on a side note, i dont understand why b&w and some people here feel it is wrong for a dealer to ship outside of their area in my case. i went into this dealership because of the great service and pricing they had and i was not disapponted. they spent over 3 hours with me and was very helpful. when i decided i wanted to 804s, i felt it would have been unethical for me to go my local dealer and buy them since they did nothing to earn the business. i felt that the right thing to do was to buy them from the dealer outside of my area since they invested all of their time on me in spite of the extra hassle of shipping, etc. i dont want to start a controversial topic nor do i intend to offend anyone. i understand that b&w can have whatever rules they want. in my case, i feel that is was "more" right for me to buy from the dealer outside of my area. in fact, before this little fiasco, i was going to make them my exclusive dealer since they were so helpful when i visited their showroom.

[misterdoggy]

thanks for the input everyone. i will wait for the UPS adjuster to see what happens.
i understand that b&w can have whatever rules they want. in my case, i feel that is was "more" right for me to buy from the dealer outside of my area. in fact, before this little fiasco, i was going to make them my exclusive dealer since they were so helpful when i visited their showroom.

Well, If they replace right away and make it easy, they "should" be your dealer. If they don't well.......

Once burned, twice shy

[ChrissB]

This is all cr*p! The truth is that you ordered and agreed to pay for a completely new and perfectly working pair of loudspeakers and what they delivered is something completely different.
Would they be happy if you’d pay them with fake or completely damaged banknotes???
I don’t know what the law in the U.S. says for a situation like this but here in Europe they’d HAVE to give you a brand new pair.
What happened to the speakers BEFORE they get in your possession is (or should be ) none of your business and only their problem!
Are there consumer unions that could advice and help you on that?
I hope everything goes well for you.

[caleb]

You made two mistakes:-

1) You went to the wedding and kissed the wife's ar#4e.

2) You opened boxes which were clearly transit damaged, this puts you at a major disadvantage when it comes to a claim.

You should have not even signed fore the boxes and got the UPS guys down to you right away.

Anyway my heart goes out to you when you have waited for so long for your dream speakers.

[misterdoggy]

tboooe,

You definitely want a "different pair" not these. You don't want "repaired" speakers, but new speakers.

My wife bought a new beetle and it came from Germany with a broken windsheild. They said it was nothing to fix and my wife insisted on getting a new car in perfect condition. I said if they repair it, then no harm (BIG MISTAKE)

The car was a lemon from that day on, the windsheild being out let water in to the fuse box and humidity and short circuits have plagued us ever since.

Moral of the story= NEW PAIR.

Personally I would take the high road and as soon as the UPS man passes (which fufills your obligation) you pack them up and send them to the dealer. Then with proof of return ie: airway bill stating contents, you fax the return receipt to you card company and refuse payment. They have no recourse. They are "stuck" with the lemons and you buy a brand new int he box pair for 10% more from your local guy.

Otherwise the scenario will be as follows: The dealer you bought them from reports to B&W that a speaker was damaged in delivery (not B&W's problem but the dealers responsibility) and that it is covered by insurance, so please repair it at out cost and send it back.

Now is the time to act. !!!!

[tboooe]

Thanks everyone.

I just got off the phone with UPS and I was very pleasantly suprised. Because I made the driver make note of the extensive damage on the boxes, UPS will be taking the product back and paying my dealer the value of the speakers. They said it will take about 5 business days before they notify my dealer. Fantastic! So in theory, I should be getting new speakers!!! Like Misterdoggy said, I will be demanding new ones, NOT repaired ones. Lets hope for the best. Thanks for the support and advice everyone.

BTW, Caleb, my wife as a very nice arse so I definitely dont mind kissing it (and even biting it) once in a while

[PewterTA]

Good to hear tboooe.

I would definitely have requested new speakers from the dealer and the dealer should've HELPED you. Not just said, "do it your own d()&*n self." I'd really consider trying to find another deal.

There is nothing wrong with B&W dealers shipping their products that's up to them. The only thing B&W will get on dealers about is if they are selling to people that have not come into their store to pick up/purchase them. The purchase must be made "in person."

I have confirmed this with many dealers. Besides, what's not to say one moves away, but wants to still support his local (which is now not) dealer that he's maybe dealt with for years...?!?!

Besides, someone you have known and worked with is going to give you a better "deal" on equipment then walking in off the street at a local dealer. Most times that is.

[misterdoggy]

tboooe,

That's great news. UPS is very good about covering their insured items. After all, its not even UPS that is paying, but their insurance company. It usually takes a few weeks at least to process in Europe, but I've not a clue how fasst it could be done there.

Glad there's lots of Arse Kissing in the right places. Glad there will be a happy ending.

Who gets the damaged speakers ?

[tboooe]

Update:

my dealer still refuses to order and send me new speakers until the situation with UPS is sorted out. I find this unacceptable! Like I said earlier, this is not my fault yet I am the one who is suffering. They already took my money for new speakers so I think I deserve to have them. I dont see why my dealer will not deal with UPS independently of me and send me my new speakers!?? The dealer wants me to wait until the situation gets resolved. Clearly, they dont want to spend more money by having to order another set of speakers. They want to make certain UPS refunds the value of the speakers. Well since the dealer is covering their arse, I have no choice but to cover mine. I called my credit card company who will be reversing the charge and notifying the dealer that they are not being paid for the transaction and will not be paid until I take delivery of a new, working set of 804S. Hopefully this will light a fire under their rear ends. If not I will just have to find another dealer.

[Gump]

You were more than patient with them...well done.

[Jeff]

Ultimately, once the new speakers are ordered, I would think it acceptable to have them shipped to the B&W dealer closest to you. The dealer regularly receives deliveries and will take issue any damaged shipping container and if repeated, would reject it on the spot.

Good luck!

[george_k]

I really hope you let B&W know about how your dealer chose to handle this. You'd be doing all of us a favor, nobody should have to go through what you did, not with boutique brands anyway.

[RobP]

Here is a quote from my B&W dealers website, I believe that this type of policy would help prevent mishaps like the one tbooe had.


Important Notice To Our Valued Customers

Please note that in order to maintain the highest standards of customer service, our supplier's prohibit us from selling our products via mail order, over the phone, or over the internet unless you are in our area or have visited our store. In some circumstances, we may provide information and accept payment for product through these methods, but the completion of the sale requires that we personally deliver the product, or the customer must visit our store to pick up their purchase and be fully informed of the products' operational features. We suggest you find a dealer in your area to service your needs.

Our suppliers have specially selected us for our professionalism, customer service, and ability to display and demonstrate their components in a proper environment. Only authorized dealers may stock, sell, and provide warranty service for their components.

[RobP]

Just another comment here on the shipping of any B&W speaker. B&W's packing was not designed to be shipped by a common ground type carrier such as UPS or Fedex, the packaging is simply inadequate. When your dealer receives them they come on a truck on a pallet, which is really the way they should ever be shipped.

As far as the claim goes,your dealer should order you a new set of speakers and let you go on your way, they can handle UPS themselves, UPS will be paying them for the damage, not you. Good Luck!

Robert P.

[caleb]

THat's the right move - cancel the credit card and then see how fast the dealer moves.

Just our of interest this issue tells you what kind of a dealer he was in the first place.

[Andrew M Ward]

Update:

my dealer still refuses to order and send me new speakers until the situation with UPS is sorted out. I find this unacceptable! Like I said earlier, this is not my fault yet I am the one who is suffering. They already took my money for new speakers so I think I deserve to have them. I dont see why my dealer will not deal with UPS independently of me and send me my new speakers!?? The dealer wants me to wait until the situation gets resolved. Clearly, they dont want to spend more money by having to order another set of speakers. They want to make certain UPS refunds the value of the speakers. Well since the dealer is covering their arse, I have no choice but to cover mine. I called my credit card company who will be reversing the charge and notifying the dealer that they are not being paid for the transaction and will not be paid until I take delivery of a new, working set of 804S. Hopefully this will light a fire under their rear ends. If not I will just have to find another dealer.

If any of this "type" behavior becomes evident to B&W your dealer will find himself not a dealer in short order.

All of the above is B.S. behavior

B&W has fired dealers that do millions (and I'm not kidding) for lesser infractions. This must not go unpunnished, please contact the comapny directly and feel free to ask for the "marketing" department for further explanation of your situation, it's that important.

[misterdoggy]

tboooe,

You MUST send the speakers to them. I am a merchant who sells correpondance. In the dispute, they can say you signed and accepted the merchandise. The speakers are in your hands. If the speakers are returned in their hands then they can't say anything except you ordered them and that doesn't fly. Damaged or not, you have possession of merchandise sent. Send them right back and say you have nothing for your money.

Ultimately they can say "look he paid for this and we delivered it". Better that you say "They sent me broken stuff and I sent it back and won't pay for something I don't have"

[Indytown]

tboooe,

You MUST send the speakers to them. I am a merchant who sells correpondance. In the dispute, they can say you signed and accepted the merchandise. The speakers are in your hands. If the speakers are returned in their hands then they can't say anything except you ordered them and that doesn't fly. Damaged or not, you have possession of merchandise sent. Send them right back and say you have nothing for your money.

Ultimately they can say "look he paid for this and we delivered it". Better that you say "They sent me broken stuff and I sent it back and won't pay for something I don't have"

Now that things have been washed out somewhat, you have contacted your credit card company - and they have agreed to stop payment, the claim is filed with UPS and is valid - I would:

1) send the speakers back immediatelty to the dealer as Misterdoggy suggests- INSURED for his cost, not retail value.


2) since they refuse to order a new pair until things get settled; you live in California there MUST BE dealers in a 200 mile radius willing to do business with you.

3) As Andrew Ward mentioned call the marketing department on the east coast, they can assist you in finding a VERY GOOD dealer that will gladly make things right for your PAIN and SUFFERING you have experienced.

Your dealer should be happily energenic that things are being handled by UPS and they will recieve payment.

Audio - speakers in general are personal purchases that cross over many different lines; to some dealers they are a commodity in a box -that's it; to others they are a fine piece of electronics, furniture, art all in one no matter how much volume they do; some dealers hire local professional movers to deliver their goods- what are you looking at $100-150 delivery charge- piece of mind.

I was at a dealers place of business looking at 802D and 800D some time ago; went into this rather nice listening room to audition the pairs; they also had the new HTMD 1 there; long story short, the center channel had dirty shoe prints on top of it; the 802D where dirty and scuffed up.

I would never buy or trust that dealer with my items.

Call marketing, find a new dealer.

One last thought, call the UPS investigator, he or she should have authorized a pickup of your speaker and placed a shipping label on them so you don't incurr additional expense. If this didn't happen make it happen.

Indy

[tboooe]

Thanks everyone! Even though I knew I was doing the right thing and not being unreasonable it is still nice to hear everyone's thougths and supportive posts. As of today, UPS will be picking up the packages and beginning the investigative process. We will see how it goes.

Robert, thanks for the info about the shipping of the speakers. When UPS deliverd them, they were on their sides which I am sure caused some of the cosmetic damage. If and when I get this issue resolved, I will definitely be picking them up. But, how do I get them home? Even with an SUV there is no way I can stand the speakers up. They will have to lay on their sides again.

Regarding calling B&W, I will wait to see how this situation resolves itself. I want to make sure I have an accurate and complete understanding of the entire event. I am still holding out hope that the dealer will do the right thing (maybe I am too optimistic).

To make matters worse, I am now without my amp. I had to send it in for warranty repair. And the topper to all of this?? On Friday I had a plumbing leak (for the 4th time in 3 years) that allowed me to take a shower while eating breakfast in my kitchen. This is a new house that is only 3 years old. Needless to say, I am getting in touch with an attorney that deals with new home construction issues like mine. It definitely sucks to be me right now!

You know, the dealer was actually very nice and helpful (at least the person I dealt with). I am now dealing with the owner who I am sure has a different agenda and I can respect that. The reason why I went outside of my area in the first place was because I am so unsatisfied with my local dealers. They were all not very helpful and their prices were very high.

Thanks again and I will keep everyone posted.

[PewterTA]

You can transport the speakers laying down...

What I did... I opened the tops of the boxes, noted what side was the "front" of the speaker, and made sure I had that side of the box face up when I brought mine home. Not a single flaw on my speakers.

B&Ws packaging is more than adequate to be shipped and transported. It's when UPS/FEDEX drop the packages getting them in and off the truck is when it happens...which is why one should always pick up their speakers themselves.

Trust me I know your pain, I can't stand any of my local dealers for B&W...the one place is great, but they refuse to go much below retail unless you buy a full 7.1 system (which I did at the time, kicking myself now)...

So instead I found a great Rotel/B&W/Martin Logan, etc dealer about 100 miles from me. I've been to his shop three times and every time I'm treated like I'm someone famous. The guys there call me by name and it's just great... So needless to say from now on my purchases are made through them. It's well worth the 200 mile round trip, and borrowing my friend's Silverado to haul the stuff back, just to know I've gotten exactly what I payed for.

Hopefully you can find a great dealer yourself!

[gostan]

Update:
my dealer still refuses to order and send me new speakers until the situation with UPS is sorted out.

My dealer almost always has a pair of top-selling 804's in stock at all times. Unless your Dealer is selling 804S's by the droves, they may be twisting the truth to their own advantage and your disadvantage. If I were you I would immediately: (i) put a cancellation/complaint on my credit card; (ii) ship the speakers back to the dealer collect (after taking numerous pictures of the boxes and the damage); (iii) file a complaint with B&W corporate which would insure that you are able to purchase the 804's for a similar price at a local dealer and (iv) find a new local B&W dealer or choose another loudspeaker and dealer.

Just think, you were unlucky enough to come home from the wedding to this aggravation...and the bride and groom are still whooping it up on their honeymoon.

Seriously, too bad that this had to happen to any forum member. We all dwell on these upgrades and spend too much $$ on this a-v hobby. Trouble with your amp too is a b-buster. Now you cannot give me/us any more updates on how the Cary cd player is sounding.

Hope you solve this dilemma soon.

[sprakash]

With regards to getting the speaker home, if you buy from a local dealer, just have them deliver and set up. I paid $40 to have them set up exactly where I wanted and pick up the trade-in pair.
Quite possibly one of the best 40 bucks I've spend.
Cheers,
SP

[tboooe]

update:

I called UPS today to see what the status of the claim was. According to the lady I spoke with, UPS is claiming that there was insufficient packing material to ship the speakers. But the final determination will be made by their insurance company. At this point, it does not look good though. I was hoping this would be an open and shut case where my dealer would be reimbursed by UPS so they would go ahead and ship me new speakers. Even though I still believe that the dealer should have shipped me new speakers right away I was willing to wait for the outcome of the UPS investigation before really taking action. Now it looks like this situation will only get worse and drag out longer.

so you all think that if I call B&W I can get them to sell me the 804S for the price I got from this dealer? I just want to put this issue to bed and go back to enjoying music.

[Indytown]

update:

I called UPS today to see what the status of the claim was. According to the lady I spoke with, UPS is claiming that there was insufficient packing material to ship the speakers. But the final determination will be made by their insurance company. At this point, it does not look good though. I was hoping this would be an open and shut case where my dealer would be reimbursed by UPS so they would go ahead and ship me new speakers. Even though I still believe that the dealer should have shipped me new speakers right away I was willing to wait for the outcome of the UPS investigation before really taking action. Now it looks like this situation will only get worse and drag out longer.

so you all think that if I call B&W I can get them to sell me the 804S for the price I got from this dealer? I just want to put this issue to bed and go back to enjoying music.

what kind of change did you drop on the speakers; no need to reply; to some dealers they are an item in a box; did they insure the speakers? If they are honest they will say what the condition of the speaker boxes was before shipping.

I don't think they would have accepted the same speakers from B&W in that condition.

Ask the dealer to do a three way conference call with B&W east coast; see what happens.

When you have different piece to the equation and all are not on the same page, try to get them together to cut through the chase.

Indy

[Eliav]

tboooe!
Sorry to hear about your speakers.
It sounds that there is no way other than getting you a new pair to make true justice in your case.
I myself bought my speakers from a dealer located 5 hours from me. I visited his dealership twice and got the amplifire, processor and DVD in the first round, and drove again to pick up the speakers myself on the second round 1 month later. He offered me UPS (!)shipment , fortunatelly, I was warried that something may happen, and went there my self.
I picked up my 803s and HTM3s ( pretty heavy& bulky stuff)and placed them in the rear of a Honda Odessey,the 803swere placed on their backs with no problems at all.
I am sure that patients in your case will pay off, I have no doubt you will eventually get a new pair, after all, there are some reasonable people left out there...
Cheers
Eliav

[miner]

update:

I called UPS today to see what the status of the claim was. According to the lady I spoke with, UPS is claiming that there was insufficient packing material to ship the speakers. But the final determination will be made by their insurance company. At this point, it does not look good though. I was hoping this would be an open and shut case where my dealer would be reimbursed by UPS so they would go ahead and ship me new speakers. Even though I still believe that the dealer should have shipped me new speakers right away I was willing to wait for the outcome of the UPS investigation before really taking action. Now it looks like this situation will only get worse and drag out longer.

so you all think that if I call B&W I can get them to sell me the 804S for the price I got from this dealer? I just want to put this issue to bed and go back to enjoying music.

BS on the packing material. They are completely surrounded by substantial styrofoam. The damage was caused by the way they were handle. PERIOD. I have seen how packages are handle at a UPS center inMesquite, TX. I'll never ship with UPS.

[george_k]

I have seen how packages are handle at a UPS center inMesquite, TX. I'll never ship with UPS.

All I can picture is Jim Carrey in the opening scene of Ace Ventura.

[miner]

Last week I rcvd a UPS delivered package from a friend in Tucson. It was a Saki wine set - bottle of saki, 2 cups & a mini-pitcher. All broken. UPS denied claim because items were fragile (all packed in peanuts) AND words 'FRAGILE - HANDLE CAREFULLY' printed on all sides. I suppose the loaders can't read. Don't give up on your claim. Your dealer should be handling this issue for you.

[Dan White]

Another question I would pose to the dealer is thier return policy if your not happy with any items weather or not damaged or incorectly shipped product do you get your money back?

[tboooe]

dan white: according to their policy, the best I can get is a store credit. that does not help me since i may not want to buy anything from them anymore after this fiasco. this is why i went directly to my credit card company to get the charge off my account.

[misterdoggy]

tboooe,
Here's the to do list in this order:
1. Send back the speakers
2. Stop the credit card charges
3. Stop troubling yourself with the claim because you are not the sender
4. Take the $$ and buy from someone locally and go and get them
5. Take the little lady out for a Romantic dinner and get blasted

In this order please
Bruce

[EvanFew]

Tboooe,

I'm so sorry to hear about your story. This situation is completely unacceptable, and not at all your fault. This should have been a glorious experience that brought nothing but pleasure for you.

After six long months of waiting for Paradigm to finish delivering my Signature set up, I finally gave up last week, and just exchanged them for a set of 803D's, HTM2D and DS8S's. I am of course, in absolute heaven.

I see by your profile that we live very close to each other. If you would like, I could give you a referral to my dealer whom I'm very fond of. Nice bunch of guys who really know their stuff. They also gave me a very fair deal. Good luck with your dilemma.

Evan

[tboooe]

Bruce, I am going to start with #5 and some booze into that equation and hopefully I will finally get some luck!

As for everything else, I have already returned the speakers via UPS and had my credit company reverse the charges. I am going to call B&W to see if they will ship me new speakers to a local dealer for the same price I paid for them.

evanfew: I would appreciate a referral to your dealer. Thank you.

[misterdoggy]

Bruce, I am going to start with #5 and some booze into that equation and hopefully I will finally get some luck!

As for everything else, I have already returned the speakers via UPS and had my credit company reverse the charges. I am going to call B&W to see if they will ship me new speakers to a local dealer for the same price I paid for them.

tboooe,

I'm pretty certain that B&W policy would not be to interfere with pricing from any dealer. Because dealer "X" is ready to make $5.00, doesn't mean they can insist on another dealer living up to that deal. That deal was between you and that dealer and now its past history.

A dealer has other considerations to think about when selling which makes their margins ie: insurance, guarantees, cost of running their business etc which dictate their margins.

Shop for the best deal and you probably can come up with a good price. I bought everything I have in Germany and I live in France, so evrything was shipped UPS and not a thing has ever been damaged. I buy absolutely everything correspondance and no worries.

Krell from Saudi Arabia and the USA
Ayre D-1Xe DVd player from Indonesia
B&W's from Germany
Halo Parasound from USA
and much more All shipped UPS

I ship $50,000 a year with UPS and I haven't had anything damaged or lost for 7 years now.

I wouldn't hesitate if a good deal presented itself from ordering long distance again. B&W boxes are built for shipping. That's how all the dealers get them ??