803s lows preception vary with standing/sitting ?

[Eliav]

I have a new pair of 803s(4 days old) driven by a rotel 1095, they both off the rear wall~ 3 feet, the lows are relatively flat when listened to in sitting position, it becomes warm and smooth (boomy?) when I stand up or walk around the room,. I tried spikes on/off, away and close to rear wall - definitely different but still no change with the sit/stand acoustics. Is it standing waves? room acoustics ? anybody has any ideas ?

Thanks

Eliav

[Zoran]

Since the listening position obviously does change your perception, it should be room acoustics in some percent..., but give them at least 150 houres intensive break-in to get the best. In my experience with 803S, bass response with 1 meter clear of the back wall should be tough and tuneful - no boominess with 803S. Look at my personal review of 803S overhere for further set of impressions.

You bought an awesome speaker. Cons!

Zoran, Macedonia

[Eliav]

Thanks Zoran
I have read your review on these speakers which had made me even more excited to get my new 803s, I am still exploring them and changing their position ocassionally. their highs and mids are sweet and amazingly open, I still am not sure about the lower frequencies, some CD's like pink floyd's "the wall" have tight ,clear and beautiful lower bass,certainly not boomy, some more gentle stuff such as human vocals with background guitars sound a bit flat and lack of that smooth warm touch of bass you would expect coming from the strings , surprisingly, when i stand up, I do hear this missing touch.I guess it is room acoustics.
In your experience, will bass perception change after the speaker has been broken in ?
Thanks again
Eliav

[rumman]

Thanks Zoran
I have read your review on these speakers which had made me even more excited to get my new 803s, I am still exploring them and changing their position ocassionally. their highs and mids are sweet and amazingly open, I still am not sure about the lower frequencies, some CD's like pink floyd's "the wall" have tight ,clear and beautiful lower bass,certainly not boomy, some more gentle stuff such as human vocals with background guitars sound a bit flat and lack of that smooth warm touch of bass you would expect coming from the strings , surprisingly, when i stand up, I do hear this missing touch.I guess it is room acoustics.
In your experience, will bass perception change after the speaker has been broken in ?
Thanks again
Eliav

I have the N804, and have the exact same issue. Moving around helped a bit, but still its not as nice as standing, or sitting a bit further back from my primary sitting position. I plan on getting a Velodyne DD-10 sub with room correction to sort this out once and for all. I believe this is caused by much more reflect bass getting to me when standing or in the other position. Breaking in won't help--I've got over 600hrs on them

[Eliav]

Hi Rumman !
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have managed to minimize the problem albeit no to completely eliminate it, by placing my sitting position exatcly in a spot where it forms a 60 degree triangle with my front speakers, I also made a very mild inward tilt of the speaker, much less than I had them before, this added much better imaging.
As for the subwoofer : I use the Velodyne SPL1200II for HT, I prefer "pure" stereo generated from my front ones with a "Bypass" mode on my processor for stereo music. I am sure though that a sub is oterwise a great solution.
I am still trying different positions until the sweetest spot is found. I will keep you posted if I find anything new

Thanks
Eliav

[Zoran]

Eliav,

You are perceiving the bass as somewhat dry, blossomless, cold - if understood corectly (sorry, English is not my mother tongue, so I lack finest "word-tools" to express subtle nuances in an idea...)...?
The fact that you're feeling something different while standing probably confirmes that room acoustics may be trouble maker here... Beside, I have acquired (owned variety of Rotel amps, recently sold RC-1090/RB-1080 combo) strong opinion that Rotel gear, particularly amps (and receivers I'd guess) have a certain brand sonic footprint very similar IMO in way you're describing your Rotel 1095/803S sound...
Could you try another brand amp - Parasound, Classe...? Or, if wanting remain stick to Rotel, the RB-1090 (warmest Rotel, according many reviews throughout press and audio sites).

Good luck - breaking-in will help of course, but cannot change the basic nature of sound.

Zoran, Macedonia

[Eliav]

Thanks Zoran,your input is highly appreciated.
You have perfectly described what I feel about the color of the lower frequencies, very "dry" ,flat,"cold" though tight strong and low.I think I will have to agree with you that this is probably coming fro my 5 days old Rotel amplifier.
I auditioned the speakers with Rotel against a 6500$ tube Maintosh amplifier, the Mcintosh sounded great, full, and warm ,although to my ears the difference was not overwhelming, at least not to a point where I would decide to add 4500$ on the Rotel (~ 2000$).
Since the system is 5 days old, I guess I will stick to the "flat"/'Cold" Rotel for a while.
I am getting used to the system sound and learning more of it every day, it is amazingly open, sometimes harsh, very much detailed and somewhat ...flat.
I guess there is some psychology behind listening experience with a given Hi Fi gear,I will probably have to go through an "ear training" process.. after this I will probably be more knowledgeable/experienced to make my final judgement.

Thanks again
Eliav

[mr_m687]

I have a pair of 804S's they have over 150 hours on them and still sound as you desribe. To me these speakers are just very open without a lot of life to them. I guess I'm saying they are kind of boring to listen to and most of the time hurt your ears. What amp/preamp combos have people found that make these speakers sound smooth, detailed, with great bass. Don't think it's possible with this brand of speaker but willing to research.

[Eliav]

Hi
I guess the beauty of B&W speakers is being "boring" - colorless and as natural as can be,this is why I chose them.
the other components such as amp. processor, cables and room acoustics should make them sound nice and warm. it is apparently a difficult and a very expensive task to integrate and correctly match all of the above and make it work perfectly to one's heart's ( or shall i say ear's) content. I am very much encouraged with the new digital amplification coming our way, it is described to be as good as the bigger most expensive SS amps with relatively affordable price.
In the mean time, I am going to continue exploring my 803s and my Rotel gear,and extract the maximum music / fun out of these guys...
Cheers

Eliav

[stantheman2]

IMHO, I find B&W speakers very revealing, with tight bass. With that type and capability of speaker, changes in software and electronics can affect perceived sound quality rather dramatically. With speakers with a more distinct sonic "character", that character can overwhelm differences in software and electronics.

I am running 600 series B&Ws in a 5+1 HT arrangement. I was originally using a JVC DVD player and a Denon receiver. With that gear the sound was full, but the bass was not too tight, and music CDs sounded somewhat lifeless. I now have a Denon DVD player and a Rotel receiver. The sound is less "full" but the bass is much tighter and the speakers seem "faster". Some recordings do now sound "thin" compared to when I was using the Denon, but other recordings sound very full. I have come to the conclusion that the Rotel/B&W combination simply does a better job of simply passing through whatever was recorded, whereas the Denon added a "fullness" to every recording.

[Eliav]

with my short experience with B&W/Rotel, some CD's sounds just right, such as Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton "unplugged" , and some sound really "thin" and flat. In my opinion, the fact that some CD's does sound full and alive indicates that the system IS capable of producing great balanced sound. with other CD's , I guess it is the recording ( system input), or may be it was supposed to sound "thin" in the first place..we're probably used to hear it differently...
I came from a pioneer integrated amp, pioneer dvd -player and Infiniti Kappa 6.1 speakers where everything was so boomy and bombastic, lyrics sometimes could be hardly recognized,and bass smeared all over the place. For me, The sharp transition into a refined detailed and more accurate system is definitely a graet acoustic experience, I just love it !
Eliav

[akhter]

I have a new pair of 803s(4 days old) driven by a rotel 1095, they both off the rear wall~ 3 feet, the lows are relatively flat when listened to in sitting position, it becomes warm and smooth (boomy?) when I stand up or walk around the room,. I tried spikes on/off, away and close to rear wall - definitely different but still no change with the sit/stand acoustics. Is it standing waves? room acoustics ? anybody has any ideas ?

Thanks

Eliav

One thing that did improve the mid/bass at the listening position was moving the speakers to within 1 ft. of the side walls and 2ft of rear walls and with a slight toe-in. I think because mostly large windows on one side and an open hallway on the other side, the bass was 'leaking' out of the room, but moving them closer to the side wall caused them to bounce off and come to the sweetspot. If this is a option for you (even to temporarily test) it might be worth finding out.

[Eliav]

Thanks Akhter !
You're so right !, I have moved it towards the sidewalls keeping it 3 ft away from the rear wall and ~ 1ft from the side walls, I have given them a slight tilt inwards - great ! much much better, lower punch comes into my chest and ears !!
before, I could feel it rocking my sofa and missing my ears level, I knew I was missing something.
I do have a big glass door aside my left front, What does glass usually do to sound waves ? is it " better" off glass walls or near ?

Thanks

Eliav