Center HTM2 over TV- Too High

[geointl]

I am currently in the process of moving/upgrading my system from the upstairs family room to a dedicated home theater in the finished basement.
I am currently using a 60" Sony XBR LCD rear projection and I want to put it on a piece of furniture that is roughly 24" high, that will bring the top of my unit to around 67". I have N805 as my mains on B&W stands and a HTM2 for the center. I am upgrading my current system to include a Rotel RSP-1068 pre and a Rotel RMB-1095 Amp. My sub will be a Velodyne DD-15 and my surrounds will be the B&W CCM80 in-ceiling units.

My question is that I plan on putting my HTM2 on a shelf over the viewing screen. Is that too high? My main seating area is 13' from the screen.

Thanks
Geointl

[junior77blue]

I would think so..but the other alternative is to put it below the tv. I'm assumming the tv is a table top?

[geointl]

The furniture I am thinking of getting is from Bush furniture and the center opening/shelf is too small for the HTM2.

Yes, it is a table to unit.

[junior77blue]

Well, you have 2 options...

Purchase the bush unit and place the HTM2 over the top. Or purchase a different stand that 'will' work for you.

Take a look at this...I'm sure there are better/worse units out there. But this is what I'm using for my 60" hitachi & HTM2. It works good for me, maybe a bit high. They make a smaller (lower) version as well. The HTM2 fits in there perfectly, assuming were talking abou the old HTM2, not the new series. You can purchase it without the doors as well, or fully enclosed. Very flexible, including infinately adjustable shelves.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SALTR30BA

[geointl]

I must have a new HTM2 it's width is almost 20". I would like to put the center under the screen, but I have not found the a stand that I like that would fit it.
Here is what I am looking at

http://www.bush-furniture-online.com/bush_VS31543.html

[Fife]

Get a Sound Anchor center channel stand and place it in front of your Wega and Bush stand.

That is what my friend did and move your 805's a few feet out in front of the tv.

[geointl]

Thanks for the suggestion... I thought of that also and then I remembered my 7 year old triplets and decided that would not be such a good idea.

I would sleep better at night with my center channel in a cabinet or up above the TV. :Z

How will the HTM2 sound inside a cabinet? Would it be better to mount it above the screen? Up high, safe and sound

[junior77blue]

That would be the 'best' option for SQ, but maybe not for space.

I would take a look around for 'other' furniture. I'm guessing ther has to be something that will work.

I need to see the HTM2, but here's an option...not a very good one, but an option. The shelves in the salamander unit are through shelves...meaning you can place the speaker in the center and have it over hang into the next shelf. I'm not sure if the actual driver would be blocked by doing this. Not to mention losing the shelf space on either side for components.

Just an idea...

[jlee]

How will the HTM2 sound inside a cabinet? Would it be better to mount it above the screen? Up high, safe and sound

It will still sound good relative to other center channels out there , but not at it's best that's for sure. For best sound, mount above the screen with a wall or ceiling mount and point downwards so the midrange bullet points towards the listener's ears. Yes, it's a lot of work, but nobody said getting the best sound was easy...

[junior77blue]

What's the negative effect of having the speaker in the cabinet?

[gostan]

I have my HTM1 on the B&W HTM1 stand just in front of my 50" Sony GWIII rear projection lcd. Sounds find and looks good to me! Putting such a large speaker on top of the Sony is not really too viable. If you put it under the Sony (which cannot be placed too over 23+/-") then your center will be way too low and muffled.

[geointl]

Thanks for all the great responses...

I think I am leaning towards the above the screen setup. I was thinking a shelf, but the mount sounds good also. Does anyone have or know about a wall mount that works with the HTM2 Nautilus.

Thanks again

[jlee]

junior77blue,

The negative effects are as follows:

1. The whole cabinet will resonate with the speaker and color the sound. To test this, shut off all speakers except the center speaker and disconnect the high freq. lead. Only play bass through the HTM2 and see how the cabinet and glass make all that extraneous noise... that will be coloring the sound the whole time even if you have trouble hearing it with all the other speakers going.

2. The speaker needs to breathe to be able to produce it's intended sound. Without adequate air around the speaker, the freq. response will be thrown off. This won't necessarily sound "bad" but just not "optimum". I have a friend who has his center speaker on the FLOOR because he's too lazy to build a bracket and mount it on the wall and because he got a Plasma TV that would end up WAY too high because of his lack of thought on his rack system.... we need to pump up the center 3dB just to even it out with the mains, and it actually sounds ok... but there is no way that system with the center like that is anywhere near it's potential.

3. If it's in the cabinet, it's doubtful the speaker can be pointed up to point at the listeners ears. This will throw off the frequency response. If you look at the B&W specs, response is within 2dB within 10 degrees either way. So you want to keep within that 10 deg. range, ideally have it at 0 deg. pointing directly at your ears. Even if you pump up the center 1-2dB to make up for that drop in response, the freq. curve will not be the same as when the speaker is at the correct height or pointed to the correct height... certain freq. will be emphasized more than others and it's just not optimum.

4. You will get all sorts of reflections within the cabinet that may come out where the front of the speaker is that will color the sound and/or screwup the frequency response. It is almost like changing the cabinet of the speaker... it's like a cabinet within another cabinet. With the speaker out in the open, you get reflections off the walls and ceiling but these serve to provide a sense of space to the recording... and it's in an environment where the sound engineers designed, tested, and fine tuned the speaker to sound it's best. They did not design the speaker to sound it's best in another cabinet.

[junior77blue]

Thanks for taking the time to descibe this to me.

A couple of follow up questions referencing your points.

1) My particular cabinet is the bare minimum, i.e. no glass or sides or front panels. Just shelves and collumns supporting the shelves, i.e. an open design. Thereby, reducing the amount of resonances and surface reflections.

2) I don't quite follow this point. Does this still apply now knowing my comments to point one?

3) Understood, and well presented. Howerver, I 'could' tilt it one way or another with shims. Granted, what is the 'recommended' height for an HTM2s?

4) Agreed, specifically with the tweeter mounted as it is on the 800 series.

[jlee]

junior77blue,

1. Having no glass or side panels definitely helps. That will definitely cut down on the rattles. Even without glass, you may want to check for resonant noises with just bass playing. The other factor is that even though the cabinet may not rattle, placing the HTM2 in it will likely prevent it from producing tight, pitch accurate bass as compared to putting it on a stand. The more "still" you can make the speaker, the more accurate it will sound at all frequencies... because if the speaker moves back and forth while it's drivers also move back and forth to produce sound, the sound gets "smeared" so to speak. To test this, put the speaker in the cabinet, and then push on the front and see how easy it is to "rock back and forth".... you want it as solid as possible.

2. This is kind of hard to explain, but a speaker produces sound by moving air... to produce deep bass, it needs to move a lot of air. When it's in a cabinet like that, the air is sort of "trapped" in that area and the speaker cannot produce the intended sound properly. Midrange and treble likely don't get affected by the closed in area,but bass definitely does. So the freq. response curve would be altered (some freq. emphasized, some deemphasized... not "flat" so to speak). This is not to say it will sound "bad" just not optimum.

3. You could probably tilt the speaker up to 4 deg. with some blue dots or tack. Recommended height is midrange bullt at ear level (some people will tell you tweeter at ear level, but I have found midrange at ear level to be better). This is more or less in line with the 802, 801, and 800 where the midrange is more or less at ear level when seated, not the tweeter.

Hope that helps.

[Mark_C.]

This is what I did. I installed a small shelf on the wall behind my Sony. The center channel is tilted at a downward angle (thanks to a few rubber door stops under its rear). I've used this setup for nearly two years without a problem, although I have been looking at the Salamander triple 20 because it's 5 inches lower than my current Sanus stand.

[geointl]

I just bought a Salamander double 20 for my set up. I also purchased a black Vogel's TV Wall Mount TVB 234 to mount my HTM2 over my TV.

It is perfect for the HTM2, even has a small lip in the front so when you angle it down it won't slide off. :T