How do I bi wire B&W's correctly?

[Spookyslow]

I'm new to the idea of biwiring and want to make sure I don't foul anything up. I'm sure someone out there can give me some advice on how to bi wire my B&W's.

Thanks in Advance!

[alkalay]

Biwiring

Hi Spookyslow,

If you have no problem connecting your speakers the very old fashion way, you should have no problem biwiring them.

As you did not specify what feeds your B&W's there are 3 possibilities regarding your amp/receiver. In any case you should:
a. Take out the two connectors at each of your speakers, connecting the two sets of terminals.
b. Run two pairs of wires from your amp/receiver to each speaker.
c. Connect each set of wire (+ and -) to each of the terminals. That's two sets of wires to two pairs of terminals at each speaker one for LH and one for HF (that's low freq. and high freq. respectively)

Now about the amp receiver:
1. It is a "Biwire Ready" and has two pairs of outs for each speaker. In that case you should simply run a set of wire from each pair of terminals at your amp/receiver to each set on each speaker. That's two sets from each channel at your amp/receiver to each speaker.

2. The amp/receiver has A/B speakers that can be connected to it. Same as with the first case just connect one set of terminals on each speaker to the A terminals and the other one to the B on your amp/receiver. Make sure both A and B sets of speakers are set to "On" at the amp/receiver.

3. The amp/receiver has only one set of terminals per channel. In that case connect the two pairs of wire to the terminals at the amp/receiver in a parallel way. Again should be done to each channel.

Hope it helps, feel free to PM me if you like.

Added:
Just wanted to make sure that + goes to + and - to - !
Added again:
If any parallel connections are done make sure that +'s are connected together as so -'s. (wanna say that + cable connected only with + cable as - cable only with a - one as well).

Itai.

[greggz]

How to Bi-Wire

[Spookyslow]

Now that's a great loooking schematic!

Thanks Much

[PewterTA]

Wouldn't you too get the same effect if you removed the links and placed speaker wire inbetween the binding posts? I just don't really see what the difference is running two wires to a speaker when it's off the same "amped" channel?

[Stoney]

I read somewhere that leaving the negative shorting link in place at the speaker end connection is helpfull. Something about effectively increasing the wire guage on the return path while leaving the feeds at the positive terminals separate. Sorry, can't vouch for the authenticity of this suggestion. I didn't have the patience to try and comprehend the description and explanation given when I read it. Perhaps someone in the forum can comment.

Lots of interesting debates can be found at various forums by searching on Bi-wiring. Will try and post some I have found later.

Found where I read this suggestion, It was posted by greggz (see post below) in another thread quoting Jon Risch.

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index.htm

[greggz]

Wouldn't you too get the same effect if you removed the links and placed speaker wire inbetween the binding posts? I just don't really see what the difference is running two wires to a speaker when it's off the same "amped" channel?

Biwiring works by reducing of the tendency for strong bass signals to overwhelm the rest of the audio signal. The larger, more powerful bass signal can greatly affect the integrity of the much lower-energy components of both the midrange and fragile treble information. Running separate wires from the amplifier can have a profound impact on relieving the tweeter circuit from the back flush of EMF (elector-motive force) generated by the woofer. When the audio signal to the woofer ceases, such as when a loud bass note is finished, the woofer tries to stop moving. In trying to stop, it actually goes through a process of "settling" because it is too massive to just stop instantly. As it settles, it moves forward and backward repeatedly until it can completely come to rest. During this movement, as the voice coil is moving through the field of the magnet, it generates its own signal. That generated signal is sent backward up the woofer wires and into the crossover, where it corrupts the rest of the music signal.

Excerpted from here http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

[Blazar]

this thread is degenerating into voodoo...

bi-wiring is nonsense. spend the money on a better amp. perhaps even bi-amp.

plain bi-wiring is worthless.

[BRB]

Voodoo? Worthless? It made no SMALL difference in my system! I have no idea how or why it works but the difference is not all that subtle. I've made steady improvements including decent interconnects, amp upgrades, source upgrades and finally bi-wired the speakers. All had impact! What began as a very bright tinny pair of B&W 804's evolved into a wonderfully smooth, balanced, beautiful system. I'm not returning my bi-wire cables!

BRB
McIntosh MA6900, Meridian G08, B&W 804's, Monster 1.4 bi-wires, MonsterM1000i interconnects.

[watchthewaves]

FWIW, B&W, in the N804 manual, states:
Bi-wiring is the preferred method of
connection and involves the use of
separate cables from the amplifier to each
pair of terminals. The separation of the
signal paths improves the resolution of lowlevel
detail and allows the user to optimise
the type of cable to the frequency range of
use.

Blazar,
When you say bi-wiring is nonsense, are you disagreeing with the reason given for bi-wiring or are you saying that even if that was not disputed, you can't hear a difference in your system? That's 2 very different things there.

[Stevebez]

What I don't understand is if there is a common source i.e. the amplifier what is the point of bringing the split of power delivery of the low & high end back from the speaker terminals to the amplifier? i.e. all you are doing is increasing the lengths of cables of the high and low ends... if this was so great than way not have reams of cable inside the speaker cabinet?

If you use two separate amps for high end and low end then I think there is more to be gained but this is more of an active system set-up than bi-wired.

Have to say I am quite scepticle of this bi-wired busniess.

Rgds Steve.

[Spookyslow]

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/local.faq/ObjectID/F5CA2E9F-3D20-11D4-A67F00D0B7473B37

The link above was my reason for bi-wiring. For what it's worth, I hear a huge difference with biwiring, but I also purchased a Rotel 1075 at the same time I biwired.

I'm certainly objective enough to credit the 1075 for most of this improvement, but I'm sure the biwiring has had some effect. Besides, what's B&W have to gain from recommending biwiring?

[perato]

I have never tried bi-wiring speakers but I do not think it would make an audible improvement, unless you also bi-amp. The link below is for a cable company that says bi-wiring is not very useful. Here is an excerpt:

"However, in our [Cobalt Cable's] opinion, there are only a few situations where bi-wiring makes sense and MANY situations where bi-wiring is just hype. Here is what we think the complete story is about bi-wiring, and why it really does not make any sense for most people's equipment. The simple explanation for why the advantages of bi-wiring are very slight or nonexistent is that most people only have speakers built for bi-wiring, while their amplification is not. By using the same amplifier channel for both sets of bi-wire cables (both sets are connected to the same binding posts on the amplifier or receiver), the same electrical path is being used for both sets of terminals on each speaker, thus negating the core advantages of bi-wiring."

http://www.cobaltcable.com/product/single_speaker_cable.htm

HTGuides disdains discussions about specific brands of cables (which this is not. I am not recommending any specific brand of cable). If this post or thread gets cut I will continue the thread at audioholics.com.

[Spookyslow]

For what it's worth (no offense intended), I'm going to follow the advice of the company who manufacture's my speakers---not cable company x.

If B&W recommends it, I don't see why it's not worth giving it a shot. I don't recall reading anywhere that it could adversly effect performance.

However, I absolutely agree that bi amping would improve performance...but I don't think anyone would argue that...

[Blazar]

I tried bi-wiring my 802's already... no audible difference.

That little pair of wires you use on the nautilus series to connect the binding posts IS "bi-wiring". If you don't realize this then you don't know anything about electronics or electricity.

Now there ARE a variety of reasons to bi-AMP speakers, particularly if you can bypass the crossovers in the speaker itself and use an electronic crossover between the pre-amp and the amps. This is generally only recommended if you know exactly what the speaker crossover frequencies are. Even then it might be difficult to attain results since bypassing the crossovers in the speaker alters the way the manufacturer "tuned" the system to work coherently.

Basically I tihnk ALL audiophile level speakers should have the crossovers REMOVED... The only reason they don't do this is because most people don't want to BI or TRI amp their speakers... you need more amps. It's simply a selling issue.

Look up the way the active Meridian speakers or the B&W NAUTILUS (snailshell) work. Those are a pretty good reference for how audiophile systems SHOULD be built.

People that throw their money away on expensive cables just want a quick and easy fix and so are a nice target for snake oil vendors. What is interesting is the fact that wiring INSIDE the pre-amp, amp, and speakers is most often times "inferior" to the interconnects and speaker cables.

[caleb]

Cables and forums

I think that discussions on cables be they bi-wire, tri-wire or whatever are a source of endless discussion by those in favour and those against and 'ner the twain shall meet.

Whatever sounds best is what IS best.

CALEB

[perato]

Well said, Blazar! You must be reading Audioholics!