B&W 805s power handelling

[Ash]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I would like to say that this is great forum with alot of great people.

I would like to start by explaining my system it is main 805s, center HTM2, surrounds LCR60 S3, Sub B&W ASW1000 and Amp is a cheap $250 Pioneer and wires are regular Monster XP. I know that this system has many fundimental weaknesses, but I'm taking it step by step as I want to afford some other luxuries such as food :P .

Naturally, I want to upgrade my Amp & surrounds first, and after alot of thinking I'm considering the options of getting N804s for the mains and pushing the 805s to the surround position. The other option os to buy better surround (maybe 705s) and a better sub. But with my experience I think I prefer tight and defined bass in comparison to the boomy bass of a sub such as the ASW1000 (its ok for movies though).

With N804 option, a good amp is important, and I would want to get the most out of them. Therefore, I considered the Rotel RMB-1095 with (200w x 5) and thus the dilemma.

Would this amp work well with N804 as main and HTM2 and 805s (surround) as later two have only 120 watts. Wont they blow up when used with an amp with 200w power while loud listening.

Sorry for writing my life story hehe.

[sikoniko]

I do not recommend mixing the htm2 with the 804's. If you are in a position where you couldn't upgrade to the htm1, I would recommend that you just get more 805's or SCM1's instead of going to the 804's. This would also allow you to upgrade your amp in a more economical manner.

You shouldnt have any problems using the 1095 w/ the htm2 and 805's.

[Aussie Geoff]

Ash,

I agree with Sikoniko re the HTM2 not being the best match for the 804s. However if you want 804s then trade your HTM2 in for a HTM1 and move the 805s etc to be surrounds with some SCM1s.. Heck - you could even use your HTM2 as a surround back in a 6.1 system!

Re your question on the Rotel RMB-1095 - yes it will drive the 804s fine (if you do a search we have many happy users of the 804s with the 1095). You can get better amps etc for more money - and we also have people who will help advise you on that (e.g. Earthquake Cinenova Grandes 300W x 5 channel or Brytsons, or Parasound etc.. But everyone has a budget...

Geoff

[Jeff]

Ash, you did not mention what type of pre/pro your using. Is the pioneer just an amp or is it a receiver? If your Pioneer is a receiver, given that price range you will NOT have pre-outs to use an external amp. Also, if it's a receiver you have not yet begun to hear what your 805's can do.

If your Pioneer is an external amp, again, you have yet to tap the potential of your B&W's. That is unless it's one of the great Pioneer amps of the 1970's. Purchasing the 1095 would be a wonderful upgrade. Your significant other should get you on video the first time you power it up. You won't be able to get that smile off your face.

Don't give the idea 200 wpc will blow your speakers. Your ears will tell you to stop long before you get there. If you have a 400 hp Corvette you wouldn't use all those horses getting to work. Ok, maybe sometimes. But when choosing an amp, lots of excess power is a GOOD THING. It's like fertilizer for you speakers. They will thrive. :T If you purchased the Rotel 1090 two channel amp at 380 wpc, you 805's would sound even better.

I would not purchase the 804's yet. Use the 1095 for a couple months and get use to the sound. You may feel the 804's are not necessary. Perhaps purchasing a better pre/pro would be a better use for the extra cash. If your able to preview the 1095 in you home before you buy, DO IT!

The sub you have is not a bad sub. Perheps a change in location would be beneficial or just turning it down when listening to 2 channal music. Again, once the 1095 is connected you may find yourself taking your HT system in a different direction.

One final note, I'm not familiar with Monster xp cables. But there may be a need for an upgrade there.

Hope this helps. Jeff

[Aussie Geoff]

Jeff,

Excellent points... Keep making posts they add some real value! :T

Especaially re the Pioneer Receiver and getting the RMB-1095 first... The $250 Pioneer has to be a weak link in the system and the 1095 gives an immediate upgrade now with oportunities for replacing the Pioneer with something much better again (like a RSP-1068 )

Geoff

[Ash]

That's some great points you made fellas thanks.

Jeff,that info is excellent and really helps THANKS, as I was always afraid to buy strong amps in excess of 200w and this really can change my planning for the next amp. I will definately go with buying a new amp at first, perhaps (RMB-1095) and a processor (RSP-1068) and will see how that go.

You see guys my Pioneer is a budget receiver and doesn't have pre-outs, and Geoff is right it is the weak link, actually the only strong link is the baby Nautilus speakers.

As far as the 804s go I think sikoniko's point is valid, I will only upgrade if I can get the HTM1 to go with it.

[DrBoom]

If you use your setup mostly for mulitchannel and HT, then it would be best to stay with 805's / HTM2.
But if you play a lot of stereo music, then I would definately recommend the 804's (even with the HTM2 in place) because there is no absolutely contest between the 805 and 804 for stereo listening.
I have 804's / HTM2 / 805's and to be honest, it's not THAT bad of a match.
You can hear that the center doesn't sound as good as the fronts, but I don't watch that many movies anyway, and for music the 804's are clearly better.

[sikoniko]

I found the htm2 to sound funny when matched with the 804's. When something panned across the front the sound was BIG small BIG. Just didn't sound right to me.

[junior77blue]

I agree with Dr. Boom....don't sell your stereo speakers short just because you have the htm-2. 804 is definately a much more capable speaker than the 805 as it should be costing more and being a floorstander vs. a bookshelf.

Is there a difference yes, will the htm-1 be better, probably yes. But there is always going to be a different 'sound' from each speaker due to room placement, acoustics, objects located near the speaker... etc...

Demo the speakers yourself and see if the difference is that great.

[Ash]

The reason why I started considering to upgrade my speakers is my surround LCR60 S3. You see I only bought these because I was a bigginer in audio and I bought the LCR initially as the center channel, 805s as the main and for the surrounds I had the LM1. The dealer that I got the speakers from did npt give me any advice and just wanted to sell me anything (didn't even have a listening room).

When I got the system home, I know that I have made some big mistakes. I understood the importance of the center channel as the LCR struggled to compete with the 805s and the LM1, well what can I say, my younger brother has them now . Therefore, I knew that I had to change the LCR with the HTM2 and I did then I went a bit cheap and bought another LCR to complete the surround. The sound of course was much better. However, again I learnd that the surrounds are also important and atleast the driver size should match the 805s.

Not to get me wrong to me the whole system sounds great, even though many components are no match for the speakers. I mean its like I was blind and just started seeing again, I really can't imagine how much better can they get with a really good setup.

Anyway I still noticed that the LCR was struggling with the Nautilus speakers, specially when I used the system in multi-channel music listening. (I even listen to CDS in multi-channel, I could never lieten to music in Stereo as my amp really sucks in that department, I also wonder about this alot, can stereo mode sound better than surround, if you had a good setup????).

back to what I was saying the LCRs are not cutting it and have to be changed with a better ones to match the 805s. However I started thinking why should I invest heavily on my surrounds when I can just push the budget a bit and upgrade the mains to 804, and push the 805s to the back.

I mean I suffered alot trying to get a good bass sound from my system. It is either too little or too much (with the sub). I could never enjoy the 805s perfectly. I need that tight and lovely bass, I hate boomy and undefined bass. Thats why I wanted the 804s.

Then another problem accured to me (if I buy the 804), as until now I only listen to music in surround mode (don't know about quality sound), I figures that I will have problems with HTM2 and the 804 as their bass extention is different the 805s 56kH and the 804 45kH. And in multi channel music the center channel is the most important, Therefore I would have to cross over to sub at HTM2 level not the 804 and thus losing out on the extra bass.

That made me really stuck and I started considering the HTM1.

[junior77blue]

Hmm....does multi-channel music really depend on teh center channel that much?? I disagree.

Granted, the HTM1 is a better speaker than the HTM2. But the majority of sound still does come from the front L&R. The rears typically add ambience and reflections. I guess it depends on the disc your listenting too and how it was engineeered. But my setup consists of 804s, HTM2, 705s for rear channels. Is it perfect, no...is it good most definately YES.

I would put the 805s in the rears and purchase 804s or possibly 803s up front.

[sikoniko]

Keep in mind that this is all a slippery slope. You upgrade to 804's, you know that the htm1 is a better match than the htm2 so you will always have that thought in the back of your head.

If you went w/ the 805's, you could use that difference and get a Rotel 1067, which would power your 805's and be done. That would be ideal for multi-channel audio, because all of your speakers would timbre match perfectly.

The one thing I really like about the new series is that there is a center to match each section of the new line. I imagine the 802's and up probably suffered from some inbalance due to the htm1 being mated up w/ them.

[Twincam]

Currently I have the same speaker setup as DrBoom in my living room, and I can only second his opinions. If stereo music is very important for you, the 804's are clearly better than 805. And like he said, the HTM2 is not that bad for HT together with 804's. But of course the HTM1 is without doubt a better center speaker and the ideal match. In my case, 2-channel music was very important, and I had (unfortunately) absolutely no space for the HTM1.

I would think about what are most important to you, 2-channel music or HT. 804 and HTM1 is fantastic for both music and HT use. If you take the more careful approach and stay with your current speakers I think you will benefit a lot with a better amp. The 1095 is good of course, but even a 1075 will be fine, and the RSX1067 is not a bad suggestion either. Then you could spend your money on upgrading your sub to a ASW800/825 for example. But like already mentioned in this thread, a different location of the sub can make quite a difference.

In the end I would listen to the different combinations that you have in mind, and I would also discuss possible "future upgrade steps" together with your dealer.

Best regards

TC

[Ash]

Thanks alot for all this info guys it was very helpful and will help me significantly in my next upgrade. I appreciate it