My Wavecor Ardent with center build

[dar47]

Ah I see,

In your case the The SR7006 is being used as a pre-pro with the amplification coming from the Thule so no other receiver upgrade is needed as the SR7006 is already a good sounding receiver as far as receivers go especially for movie content. I have the AV7005 and chose it for sound quality. Sounds like you first want a new center channel for movies and that is fine. First things first. :W

For music especially with those amazing Ardents coming I would look to add later an external dac and pre-amp with HT bypass or dac/pre amp into the mix . This gets you off the receiver's built in dac and provides the best path for your HTPC source for music only. The idea is all music is routed through a quality stand alone dac. The pre-amp with HT bypass allows you to pass 7.1 content for movies straight through the pre-amp from Blue ray, etc to the Receiver then to the Thule as if you didn't have a pre-amp connected.

When high quality music payback is on the menu, your taking the receiver (week link) out of the signal path by going HTPC - DAC - Pre-amp - to 2.1 channels of your Thule. It is a big step up using my NAD M51 DAC compared to the AV7005 to do D/A conversion and no receiver can touch it. You can get a pre-amp that has base management like my Xsp-1 or put something else in line like your destroyer for base management. Switching just gets harder if you add the destroyer in.

I am using a notebook to dac right now for a music source but will be adding an HTPC next and will just use USB for music to M51 and HDMI to AV7005 for movie content, switching is easy and no D/A conversion from the HTPC, more than one way to skin a cat but this works well. When your Ardents are done you can borrow or get a loaner quality stand alone dac to see the difference before you spend more. Amplification is last on the list I would think. I'm not going to comment on the tube thing as for me this is moving backwards in sound quality.

[CraigJ]

Tek,

Thanks for sharing your excellent build. I found this kind of funny to read and it pays to be persistent; http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ll=1#post68275

Are the Adents going in the same room that you had the B&Ws in?

Cj

[TEK]

Tek,

Thanks for sharing your excellent build. I found this kind of funny to read and it pays to be persistent; http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ll=1#post68275

Are the Adents going in the same room that you had the B&Ws in?

Cj

He, he....
Yes, the original thought go way back, 12 years I think. At that time I had never build anything. Still not very much experience, but after some furniture's, 3 sub builds - where 2 are with the faceted design - and 2 more children, I'm starting to get some distant idea about what I'm doing

Bringing back some memories.
This was from the first sub build. Still have that sub - it's placed in the back of the theater.
I built it in the garage at winter time, as that was the only place I had. Remember that we had a shared garage and that I hang plastic between to stop to much of the MDF dust to get over to the other side. Did not help very much... And the car has to be out in the snow. Wifi was not to happy about that.
The sub has a 1000w plate amp and a 18" Aurasound driver.



.-)
I'm not quite sure what room you were referring to.
Back in those days I had this room:

The big "box" in the center, before the chairs, is the sub from the previous picture.

Christmas 2012 we moved into our new house. I now have a 27m2 theater room with quite sound proofed walls, as well as a approx 30m2 workshop where I actually can build stuff without having to let the car stand out in the snow :-)
And then I built two sub's with facets. These are 15" Rythmik Audio Servo subs.


And I build myself some sound absorbent posters

[TEK]

And then the router table...


Now, this is my current setup (also having B&W SCM as side and back speakers that is not visible on the pictures).
Sorry about the bad picture quality.




As you can see, I still have the B&W 803. The Wavecor Ardent's will replace those good and old B&W...

Hmm, that was an interesting trip down memory lane. Thanks for reminding me :-)

[JonMarsh]

Those trips can be pretty handy for putting things in perspective... a lot can happen in 12 years!

In 2002 I had just finished the MkII 8" two way, in Woodstyle cabinet,



And was starting to work on the version with the HiVi M8a...




That project became an article for AudioExpress magazine...

That evolved into the M8ta somewhat later (a lot later!)






which has been built by a number of people... god have mercy on their souls and mine! :W

My daughter and her husband (as of last Friday!) have that black set of MkII 8" two ways with the Accuton tweeters.


Though they both have Facebook accounts, out of deference to their privacy I won't post a picture they took in the hotel room in Santorini after the ceremony. They looked happy, though... :W

[Carl V]

where did the original Ardent in Maple End up?
the one we listened to in Denver at Thomas' house.
YOU schelped 'em out & back...lotta grunt work.

[JonMarsh]

I've still got them, converted to use the Scanspeak Illuminator drivers- I since borrowed those for the newest Arvo Part build, which has not completed development. A little project called the Isiris side tracked me, followed up by the Wavecor Ardent.

I'm collecting together a bunch of stuff to measure in a couple of weeks, besides the backlog of stuff discussed since January, also the SW223BD02, by itself and with the Scanspeak PR, the Seas coax driver, and probably the Pioneers, too, and the MTM configuration with the 9700's and the RAAL tweeter, and the Seas LROY 10" and PR. Oh, and the PR223BD02, with the SW223BD02, but that combo may need another enclosure build. I'll need to order another MDF test cab from PE.

[Renron]

Jon,
When you do all that testing, (Yeah right, like you'll have any spare time) could you squeeze in a SS12MU/4731?
Ron

[JonMarsh]

It's in the list already, though I didn't mention it- there's a blank baffle for 0.75 cu ft PE box reserved!

[---k---]

So Jon, You submitting an application to be a Part's Express Design Team Member?

[Renron]

He's got to do something with his time when (if) they let him retire.
Thanks Jon.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

So Jon, You submitting an application to be a Part's Express Design Team Member?

Heck, if it got a little spiff with everything of theirs I use or test, I could retire now... the cabs are real time savers for test setups, though it looks like I'm going to bite the bullet for the next "bookshelf" and build it from scratch- already starting on panel fabrication, gluing up 12" LBL on edge to make 24" wide boards. All I need is about 18", but you know how it goes... they'll be pretty small compared with your avatar projects, but the PE 1 cu ft isn't quite big enough...

Another thing really handy is their various knock down MDF subwoofer cabinets- with a little additional build up, quite useful.

[TEK]

To get a little bit back on track. Now the erse iron coils is back in stock at Parts-Express. So is the tweeters for the In-Khan-Neatos.
So today I have submittet the last order to purchase all items needed to build the Wavecor Ardent as well as the In-Khan-Neatos.

When it comes to the building process, I have not had time to do any more work on them. There have been so much going on with a LOT of birthday parties as well as get-togethers with school and kindergarden.
When it comes to birthday parties I think that all parent in the kindergarden have adjusted the birth time for their child to the summer. That is probably a result of a politic that states that children only starts in kindergarden after they are one year old, and that they only get submittet into kindergarden one time a year (after the summer).

[JonMarsh]

There have been so much going on with a LOT of birthday parties as well as get-togethers with school and kindergarden.
When it comes to birthday parties I think that all parent in the kindergarden have adjusted the birth time for their child to the summer. That is probably a result of a politic that states that children only starts in kindergarden after they are one year old, and that they only get submittet into kindergarden one time a year (after the summer).

Totally plausible... that's more planning than I think I'm good for, though! :W

[---k---]

Leave it to the Norwegians.

[Renron]

When opportunity knocks................

[TEK]

In Norway everyone is able to plan the week their child should be born, thats the norwegian way of doing things :W

Now, lets get back on track!
I'm done gluing up and sanding down the mdf side panels and are now gluing on the tops.
I have been testing/prepearing how I should create good pressure when I'm going to apply the veneer.
The idea, that is beeing tested on the picture below, is to first add the veneer, then add a soft layer on top of the veneer and finally add a lit of pressure on top of that.
The soft layer should then absorb anything in the substrate that is not perfectly flat and cause the veneer to get a good and even pressure to the substrate.

I think it's working, but it is a bit hard to get the pressure evenly all over the area with just one pressure point.



Hmm, I really dont get why the picture is sideways. On my phone, before uploading it, it is correctly rotated.

[JonMarsh]

Are you uploading directly from Phone? I always send pics to Mac, check balance and resolution, tweak as needed, then upload. I see what you're experiencing from others frequently, so don't feel like the lone ranger...

[TEK]

Directly from iPhone 5...

[TEK]

As there is little progress on the build, I thought I should upload this picture instead...
My youngest meant that the dog needed to dress up - the dog - not so much :-)


And if you are wondering why there is little progress... this is the reason:


I may also include some of the local wild-life for you


Soon there will be some actual progress, I promise ;-)

[JonMarsh]

I may also include some of the local wild-life for you

Will that include those polar bears? I mean, here it's the end of June, and you DO still have snow on the ground, so the polar bears and penguins should be nearby, right?

When will spring arrive? In July? :W

[Renron]

Beautiful country views, it's 106*F today. I miss the snows of Lake Tahoe.
Ron

[TEK]

Time to get a little bit back on track.
Got started on the front panels.

Used my festool circle saw to cut the bottom first, then used the speaker as a template to find the other cuts. Finally bolted it to the front baffle and sanded it flush with the baffel.
Got one prepared today, hopfully the next one will be done soon...

[JonMarsh]

Looking very good, TEK, but you know, I have to say, it's almost like cheating using Festool saws; I like good gear, as you know, but at what they sell for over here, I can't afford them- or at least, I'm not willing to afford them. My loss, I suppose...

[Steve Manning]

Looking very good, TEK, but you know, I have to say, it's almost like cheating using Festool saws; I like good gear, as you know, but at what they sell for over here, I can't afford them- or at least, I'm not willing to afford them. My loss, I suppose...

+1 on that Jon ..... I drool all over the stuff every time I go into the local Woodcraft store. I think they need to hand out bibs as you enter the door.

[TEK]

"Almost like cheating"...
And this comes from those who have cnc'ed their parts ;-)

That aside, yes - it's a lovely tool. Can't afford it myself either. It was a present for my 40-years celebration...

[JonMarsh]

+1 on that Jon ..... I drool all over the stuff every time I go into the local Woodcraft store. I think they need to hand out bibs as you enter the door.

That's the extent of my exposure to them, too, in the former Woodcraft store (now gone, closed by the owners who wanted to retire, couldn't find a buyer).

Lovely gear, alas, I have no chance to get one for a 40th birthday, as that date is passed and gone decades ago! :W

[TEK]

Decades, in plural?
Good to be the youngster in the group ;-)

No - need some input from the ardent wavecor design team...
I have made some grills - but I did some changesvfrom the drawings and now I wonder if I have to start over again or if I'm good to go as they are.

You can see how they are from the pictures.
I have two issues that I' wondering about.
1) I did a shortcut and made the hole for the mid-tone as a circle instead of square. Will this affect the sound in any negative way?
2) the cutout for the lowest bass element is approx 3mm smaller than the outside of the element instead of a bit larger. Will this affect the sound in any negative way?

[dar47]

Hum, A couple of things I would do (being picky)but you probably can make it work.

1. I don't like the point angle at the bottom it gives you nothing to attach grill cloth close too the edge if your using screen spline like us. Start the angle lower you have room before the facet cut so you can have more meat. You may get a little larger bottom hole but the one there shouldn't affect sound.

2. It's not necessary to have felt around the mid but the circle cut doesn't give you much to mine out the grill for felt around the tweet. I would cut another one square so you can have a nice pocket for tweet felt. Notice Ben did square grill cutout and round felt cut. Helps for magnet points mounting close to the mids too.

3. Not much at the top around the tweet, you could decrease the diameter of the cut out for spleen and felt and or use a thinner grill material with edge angle that does not go right through the material thickness. Maybe leave and 4mm of no angle cut through it? That will not be seen as it's against the cab.

Sorry you put a lot into those I don't want to shoot you for it. 8O

[TEK]

Thanks for the input. Lets see if I understand you right.
1. You are mainly concerned that I will not be able to fasten the grill cloth.
I'm bit unsure myself - I think I will have to try it out.
One option is to adress the pointy angle as Avalon do:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a8/21/ba/a821ba2a764f7afb6beb4849ababbfe3.jpg

Will give it a try and see how it plays out.

2 If I understand you correct the problem is how to attach the felt to the grill?
Do you know where I can find pictures or something of ben's solution?

All in all, it seems that the main concerns, from your point of view is whetever I will be able to attach the grill cloth as well as the felt for the tweeter/mid. I does not see any concerns regarding the sound.
If that is correct I think my best choice of action is to go ahead and ser if I can get it to work or not. If not, I'll just start over with more knowledge :-)
I think I will try attaching the grill cloth

[knowledgebass]

I have yet to finish grills for my Ansonica build but I've been thinking of using heavy kraft paper to hold the felt in place in the tweeter opening. If necessary I'll give it a coat of epoxy if it's not stiff enough.

[dar47]

The felt is the last little bit of tweeter sound refinement, you can run without it. I was assessing the grill based on our method of attaching grill cloth and felt. Here you can see how the felt sits in a pocket in the grill flush with the baffle.





You don't have to use the screen spline method to attach your grill cloth, for example you can place a small bead of hot glue on the edge and press the cloth into the glue slowly as you stretch and work the cloth around the grill. I have used this and it works well. The only thing is if your using magnets to hold your grill on, the spline keeps the grill flush to the baffle and provide good contact for the magnets to grab. Nothing wrong with grill clips either. Note a little space around the edge of the grill to create the slot to put the spine into and how flush both felt and grill cloth end up being.

[Renron]

Dar47, that baffle is amazing. Perfection in design. I assume it was done on a CNC?
Ron

[benthe8track]

Dar47, that baffle is amazing. Perfection in design. I assume it was done on a CNC?
Ron

CNC for the MDF and laser cut the felt (which stinks like burning hair apparently). Luckily the only CNC mishap we had was on the 20 dollar sheet of 3/8" MDF and not on the LBL.
BTW CNC is not cheating when you design, program, and operate it yourself

[dar47]

Yes it was, but based on a previous grill i did by hand. Ben sure made it pretty.

By hand use a 3/16" up cutting spiral bit or similar in a laminate trimmer for the spline slot, just clamp a straight edge and take 2 passes increasing depth. (seem to be the best fit when spine and grill cloth are pressed in. Trim cloth against the spine after pressing it in.

For the felt pocket, mark a pattern on the back side of the grill with your felt cut to size as a guide. Freehand the first pas with a laminate trimmer close to the line then you can plow out the rest with a router. If you take it slow you can make it pretty too.8O

[TEK]

Thanks a lot for the pictures and the input.
That helps me a lot! Going on vecation for a couple of weeks in just hours, so I will not have time to assess my options before that. Will take this on as soon as I'm back!

[Renron]

(which stinks like burning hair apparently). Oh that was too funnny, spit water out my nose laughing...
BTW CNC is not cheating when you design, program, and operate it yourself Never thought it was, most of us are just jealous.

Dar47, Your freehand work is impressive, thanks for the explanation of the spline groove. There is a lot of talent amongst our members.

Ron

[dar47]

Thanks, Ron

A laminate trim is only $100 and besides trim veneer and edges precisely it's a easy scroll saw as you just tilt it on it's base and plunge it where you want to start. Get the bit speed right and it's very hard to let it get away from you when dadoing. If you don't like freehand just make a pattern to follow. Not sure if they have bushing guides for them though, that would be even easier for a pretty job.:W

[JonMarsh]

Thanks, Ron

A laminate trim is only $100 and besides trim veneer and edges precisely it's a easy scroll saw as you just tilt it on it's base and plunge it where you want to start. Get the bit speed right and it's very hard to let it get away from you when dadoing. If you don't like freehand just make a pattern to follow. Not sure if they have bushing guides for them though, that would be even easier for a pretty job.:W

The Bosch Colt laminate trim routers have a ton of accessories for them, including bushing guides; that's one reason I have two of them.

[Renron]

That explains how you get so much done, one for each hand.

[JonMarsh]

It's a lot easier with the Bosch's than with the Hitachi M12V (have two of those, too) I have to go into a training routine a couple of weeks ahead of time to use the Hitachi's that way... :W

[TEK]

What is the difference between alaminate trim router and a regular router?
Should you have both?

[TEK]

Based on the feedback I have taken the first attemt and used that to test if I would be able to fasten the fabric to the frame.
That was good practice and I lerned a few tip that I hope will help me getting a good result on the actual frame.
From the tests it does seem that the "sharp edge" at the bottom will be a problem.
This is from the test:

[JonMarsh]

What is the difference between alaminate trim router and a regular router?
Should you have both?

A laminate trim router is a smaller tool, easily held in one hand, and normally only a 1/4" shank- a Bosch Colt is a good example, though they may call it something else in Europe.



I have three of these, setup for different tasks- it's my favorite laminate router, though I have some others, including DeWalt and Porter-Cable.

I'm the wrong guy to ask if you ought to have these as well as a regular router. :W If I could only have three routers, it would be the DeWalt DW621, one of the big Hitachi routers (M12V is the version I own) and a Bosch Colt. Because I like to set up a router for a task and leave it that way, i have about a dozen routers acquired over the years... maybe more. It's not really hard to do, or particularly painful- just buy one or two a year. When you're over sixty, you can have quite a collection... :w

[Steve Manning]

Though I don't have multiple trim routers I do have multiple routers ........ I also have the Bosch trim router and have several jigs set up for it for flush trimming, etc. As Jon said it's easier to handle due to it's smaller size. I also have 3 full size routers, each dedicated to specific tasks ....... seems like you can never have too many routers!