Help, muddy sound from center speaker

[timeslip]

I am frustrated by the sound from my center speaker, as it is difficult to to hear the vocals clearly. Here is a picture of how I have placed my center channel speaker, I understand this may not be the ideal place. What suggestions do you guys have? I am using a Rotel RSX 1056 with a B&W CM Center speaker.

http://www.vahan.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album161&id=IMG_1050

Thanks,

[Danbry39]

I don't know if this will help, but have you tried directing the sound a bit upward so that it is aimed at your ears rather than straight out?

By the way, your home theater is a pleasure to look at. Very nice looking.

[brucek]

I assume you've been through a basic speaker distance and level setup using an SPL meter, and are confident the phasing of your speaker wires are correct? Have you used any of the audio tests with the AVIA dvd?

You have excellent equipment, so it shouldn't sound muddy..

[timeslip]

Thanks for all the quick responses, here are the answers to some of your questions/suggestions. Thanks for the compliments as well, this is my first attempt at a entry level high end home theatre system.

1) I need to get a hold of that AVIA dvd and try to set it up.

2) Using the SPL meter is a good suggestion, I will try that method as well.

3) Ultimately I would like to raise the center channel speaker up, but that would require raising the screen too. I have the screen at this specific height, so that is it is eye level without raising your head up.

4) I checked to make sure the speaker cables are in correctly, as that was my first guess.

5) As a side note.. I also have very high ceilings, and a stone tile floor. You can see in my picture that the room is also very open.

Maybe muddy is not the correct word to use, but it is just hard to understand the vocals when watching movies/tv. The only way i've been able to over come this, is to turn it up.

[Danbry39]

When I said to aim the speakers to ear level, I meant tilting the front of the speaker so that it was aimed at your head. No need to raise the whole speaker. Sorry for not communicating more clearly.

It does sound as if your center channel might need to be callibrated with Avia or some other software. It may be that the volume on the center just needs to be turned up, like you indicated.

Good luck!!!

[JonMarsh]

Two possible problems I see here, neither easy to fix...

One, side lying MTM's generally have some problems in the crossover region because the horizontal dispersion is rather narrow, due to the driver spacing. Unfortunately, with typically used crossover frequencies, this falls right in the presence region, which is necessary for intelligibility.





The averaged response (green trace) for the CM center seems to indicate that B&W kicked up the tweeter level a bit to try to help with intelligibility, and possibly the off axis response; HT Mag liked them, but this measurement is quasi-anechoic.

Now, the problme may be that in your room, this close to the floor, you'll be getting some indirect sound, especially with your hard floors, which results in ground bounce and comb filtering. This will further roughen the frequency responce and reduce intellibility. You might try an experiment by putting a heavy throw rug in front of the system just as a test; see if there's any difference. Angling the cabinet up a little might help, too.

Because of the way movies are mixed these days, the center channel speaker is quite important to the overall sound field, and shouldn't be the after thought that it usually is in most manufacturer's speaker lines, and in most HT setups. Sometimes it's better to have a phantom center than one which is less than optimal in performance and placement. You may want to experiment with that, too.

Regards,

Jon

[aud19]

I say first step, tilt it so that it's properly aimed at the listening position. Second step, pick up a copy of AVIA or Digital Video Essentials and an SPL meter from Ratshack and properly calibrate the speaker levels (double check distance/delay settings as well). Third step, (if the dialog is still not as clear as you'd like) experiment with a thick throw rug as Jon mentioned to reduce floor reflections. Unfortunately dealing with the ceiling is a much bigger problem but hopefully these other steps will remedy the situation. You may want to experiment with moving the centre a little further out from the wall as well by placing it on something sturdy, further out in the room. Being so close to that wall could be giving you problems as well.

Jason

[Bing Fung]

Another thing is you may need a bigger center channel to fill the space.

My room is small, however I notice my CC6 can get boxy and compressed sounding when I crank up the volume to a louder than normal level. Granted the CC6 is basically an entry/mid level Speaker, and it does sound adequate at normal SPL levels, but it is the limiting speaker in my system right now.

Your space seems rather large, and the speaker could be taxed trying to fill it. Not saying thats the fact, rather a possibility.

[ht_addict]

You have to get your hands on a SPL and use the test tones in your receiver or pre/pro to calibrate all our speakers properly. After that then you can see if something else has to be done to improve the center channel. Personally I use so self-adhesive door stops to tilt my center channel up towards my ears. They look like this(3rd one down)



ht_addict

[brucek]

I'm presently using the brown door wedge version of the official center channel tilting aid.............. :roll:

[aarsoe]

Timeslip

Looking at your picture I can see that your center speaker is placed on a shelf. I dont know how the speaker is attached to this shelf or if the shelf is made of solid wood, but if you have just placed it on top and if the shelf is not made of solid wood and therefore have a tendency to ring, then try to attach it someway so that the speaker can not slide around or vibrate. Even the smallest movement may create exactly what you are describing.
Now before you beging putting nails/screws etc. try some bluetack or something similar that can be removed again without damaging the shelf or speaker.
Sometimes this can have an amasing effect..

[ht_addict]

Taking another look at the picture of the setup the one thing I noticed is the speaker is rear ported. What you maybe experiencing is muddy bass because the speaker is too close to the wall. Try taking the speaker of the wall mount and place it a couple feet infront closer to the seating position. Do the same with the mains to keep everything equal and see if you hear a difference. If it helps you may want to look at getting a port plug for the center to cut down on the bass. Also have you set the center to small in your setup?

ht_addict

[Bam!]

Hey!

I think there are a couple of things wrong...

That speaker cable....it's one of the copper 12 gauge whatevers It seems ain ?

Try some silver cables...I know Cats offer them the forum sponsor
also I find your speakers in general way too close to the wall especially the center....

Lifting the the front of the center channel would help....but the cable will do much more!

[Blazar]

The likelihood that changing the speaker cable will fix "muddiness" is remote...

The problem he is describing is much more global.


Some people prefer standard hardware store speaker cable to expensive cable when compared in double blind fashion. At the very least many people can't even tell the difference between one speaker cable and another.

I vote for the throw rug and moving the speaker away from the wall. Use that footstool you have laying around and try and move the center channel position away from the wall and see what happens. Adjust your pre-amp crossover to allow less low frequencies into such a small speaker.

[Kingdaddy]

Get those speakers away from the back wall, way too close, they should be at least a few feet from the wall. Then I would try the tilt, then vertical alignment for the CC.

[Clive]

In addition check to see if the audio compression (In the DVD player menu) is turned "on/off". I keep mine "off" Also, check dynamic ranges. Some of these players have the option to extend the range of the vocals.

0.02c

[ranasjsu]

Little Help

I am frustrated by the sound from my center speaker, as it is difficult to to hear the vocals clearly. Here is a picture of how I have placed my center channel speaker, I understand this may not be the ideal place. What suggestions do you guys have? I am using a Rotel RSX 1056 with a B&W CM Center speaker.

http://www.vahan.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album161&id=IMG_1050

Thanks,

Someone wrote a piece about this.

https://www.thedebuguy.com/blog/zkje5z0tjqj4ali1j42xfew05abk8w