How many of you use powered subs with your speakers?

[caleb1995]

I have Sonus Faber speakers and am debating purchasing an REL subwoofer.

Can those of you who have powered subs with high-end speakers comment on how much a benefit it is? Is it $1800 better? What kind of music is it more beneficial for? I haven't done a demo yet which I plan to do but wanted to get your thoughts and commemts.

FYI, I'm primarily interested in 2-channel listening but also watch movies in surround. Thanks.

[LEVESQUE]

I use a Paradigm Servo-15 with my Paradigm Signature S8. And I will probably buy a 2nd sub soon.

For 2 ch music, I only use the S8, w/o the sub. But for HT, I cross everything at 80 and leave the sub shake everything!

And I also have 2 bass-shakers in each chair, because I really think that a big part of a good movie experience is to feel the bass flowing through you.

But for multi-ch music (DVD-A and SACD) I really prefer sending a full-range signal to all the speakers, even to my center (Signature C5). Awesome experience.

For music, it's really a matter of preference. But for HT, you really need a good sub.

Try each configuaration and see what you prefer. It's the best and only way to know...

[Sonnie Parker]

$1800 better?

There's a thread around here somewhere that we were discussing subs and the various cost. I was one of those that probably spent way too much and could have possibly gotten all I needed for $1000 less money.

Check out Adire, Velodyne, SVS (and there's probably others)... they all have some powered subs in the $500 range that supposedly will knock your socks off.

I will say if I had it to do all over again I would not pay $1600 for my Velodyne HGS-15... although I got a good deal, I think I would have been satisfied with spending less money for one or possibly buying two of the less expensive ones.

[Burke Strickland]

When I bought my Velodyne FSR-18, the dealer said it was most likely the only sub I'd ever need unless I moved into Grand Central Station. Then I might need to add another one. :>) He was right. It lays down a really DEEP authoritative, solid bass foundation for both music and movies. Since I like clean, powerful bass, it was worth the close-to-$1800 investment.

I like pipe organ music, and while my main speakers are wonderfully cohesive from top to bottom, they just don't play the lowest octave (20 hz - 40 hz) where the big pipes are at a listenable volume. Also, for soundtracks, getting the impact of "below the threshold of human hearing" frequencies that you FEEL when a volcano erupts or a bomb explodes (or a little girl taps on an aquarium), :>) a capable sub is essential. Believe me, this Velodyne is "capable".

The FSR-18 is basically the HGS-18 with a matte black instead of piano gloss finish -- and a lower price tag. It incorporated the HGS-series technology as a market test before that line was introduced. It passed the test. :>) I was lucky to catch it on sale locally when the FSR product line was being phased out and Velodyne had authorized their dealers to match internet pricing.

Aside from being very pleased with the performance of my sub in my own listening environment, I was impressed when our Houston HT group went to visit Cello's half million dollar display room featuring their "if you have to ask the price you can't afford them" components, and saw that their humongous main speakers were augmented by a pair of Velodyne FSR-18's.

I have experienced a number of other subs that work very effectively with the systems they were in, including models from Vandersteen, SVS, REL, Paradigm, NHT and some smaller sized servo controlled Velodynes. It is possible to get effective bass with smaller and less expensive subs, but you need to be careful about adjusting them so they don't bottom out on the really strong passages.

Of course, careful placement and setup is essential to get the most out of any sub. Even though some have told me it is "overkill" for my listening space, my sub has never bottomed out. I'd rather have more capability built-in that I don't always use than always be wishing I had more, or having to "soft peddle" the high impact passages because I had "cheaped out" on a sub.

While it would be ridiculous to put an $1800 sub with a $300 "Home Theater In A Box" system, if you like bass and you've already spent a fair amount on decent speakers and electronics, spending some more on a sub is a good investment. Bottom line -- if you like bass, it is worth every dollar to get the best sub you can find that integrates well with your system. (That said, it also pays to shop around to find the best deal for a given performance level.)

Enjoy!

Burke

[Phasor]

I have two Vandersteen 2w's mated with Vandersteen 2CE Signatures for the front left and right. And a Vandersteen V2W for the LFE channel. Rotel amps drive them all except the amps in the subs.

Phasor

[David Meek]

I do, I do!

I'm running Aerial Acoustics 7B mains with a Velodyne FSR-15 (the little brother to Burke's). The Aerials play down to about 30-35 Hz, so they handle most musical chores by themselves - with the exceptions of deep organ passages, etc. For movies though, the Velodyne gets used 100%. That 20-35% Hz range is used a lot in films and a good sub is essential for getting the most out of the soundtrack.

[Sonnie Parker]

Tom Nousaine (well known for his sub testing) has done some fairly extensive testing of subs and continues to add to his chart. While this is not the complete chart, it does include the top candidates he has tested. Keep in mind that there are probably several very good subs out there that he has yet to test.

[Bing Fung]

I do as well, run a sub with my mains.

Of particular note was I use to have a Energy powered sub that I sold before I had completed building my own sub. During that time I played familiar music CD's and noticed that my system actually had a slightly better quality of bass (though less of it) and I really noticed more nuances in the tracks with ou tthe sub. I suppose it's what a person wants in the sound.

HT with out the sub really lacked :

[Shane Martin]

Up until last month I was running a subwoofer(M&K Mx90) with my mains. My mains would play down to 23 or so..

Since I planned to upgrade I sold the sub off and I've been w/o for the past month or so. Let me tell you its extremely difficult to live w/o a subwoofer(for me). Others might feel differently but even the folks that I know that have high end $8k++ speakers use a subwoofer with their music setups.

$1,800 better is a subjective term. I could watch movies and music w/o a subwoofer no problem but I would like it much better with a quality subwoofer.

If I was buying a sub(which doesn't appear to be happening for a few weeks..), I will be considering the subs from the direct companies like SVS, Adire, HSU and Onix Rocket(AV123.com). There is far more bang for my $$ than the high dollar subs. In general I think they offer you 2x the sub for 1/2 the money of a commerical offering. If you are not in the USA it becomes a bit more cost prohitibitive to go this route but I know of a guy in the UK as well as several others in Europe who bypassed the REL offering(which is super popular over there) to go for the SVS option.

[spiffnme]

Yep...

I sure do...I currently have a Hsu VTF-2, and LOVE it. I'll be keeping this one until for a long while, and when I do "upgrade" I'll likely get another Hsu. Tremendous bang for your buck with their products.

[Chris D]

I absolutely believe in separate subwoofers. Whether you choose to use powered or passive subs makes little difference in use, as it's just a matter of where the amplifier is located. You may choose depending on what kind of wires you want to run.

Me personally, I've always used powered subs. I first had a Klipsch 15" KSW-15 (not their current RSW-15) for my theater. This one is now in the bedroom theater setup, and I've got a pair of SVS PC-Ultra subwoofers now in my theater.

I subscribe to the idea that you should use subwoofers to do what they're designed to do, deep bass in music and movies, and use speakers for what they're designed to do--mid and high tones.

[Bob]

Integrating subs into a two channel system is really a complex undertaking and not as simple as just plopping one into the room. RELs are interesting in that you can use the same sub for your LFE channel and as a suppliment to your two channel setup. I have had two sets of them at various times when I had a HT. Notice I said you can use them as a suppliment, I didn't say integrate. They don't use a passive crossover so your speakers are still getting the full range signal. They will enable you to have more bass but, you don't get the benifit of better mids and highs that you can with subs using passive crossovers. You get some benifit of being able to find a more optimum spot for placement but not the same as you would using crossovers.
For the price, I think they can be benificial to most systems and I would use them again if I had speakers that were a bit anemic in the bass or I had a problematic room that would benifit from moving the subs to a different spot than the main speakers. I found two were better than one in trying to blend them in with the speakers I had at the time. For $1800 you should be able to get a pair used.
If you want to have a pretty good idea on how to use subs in a two channel system go herehttp://audioperfectionist.com/pages/freejournals.html download the free journals and read them.
Now, if what you are trying to acheive is just strong chest compressing bass like you hear when a 18year old low rider kid pulls up to you with his car audio system blasting away, then it is real simple. Just buy whatever sub pushes the most air for the least amount of money and plop it in one of the room corners where it will be loudest but, not necessarily the best integration.

[Rock Dog]

Me too! I run a Mirage BPS-400. It's a dual 12" with the subs running "bi-polar" if you will, or maybe out of phase is a better description. But my mains (Mirage OM-6) also have dual 8" powered subs in them. I just installed a new pre-pro and am playing with the crosover points at the moment. Currently crossing at 100Hz. I let the mains go a little deeper, but keep the rest of the 7.1 package crossing over there. I don't use the sub for two channel. The OM-6s handle that task just fine. :T

[jimmyp58]

I use Def Tech BP7000SC's for mains and Def Tech C/L/R 3000 for center ... they have subs built in plus I use a Def Tech SuperCube Reference as a primary sub in the front of my HT along with a B&W ASW-600 as a rear HT sub.

Jim