12 volt trigger outlet

[Nolan B]

Does anyone know of a product which is an outlet/powerbar that can be switched via a 12 volt trigger? I searched mono price and google but couldnt find anything. I want it to be controlled via the trigger on my processor.

[Kevin D]

Niles and Xantech both make pieces that do it. Hell, you can find cheap AMX pieces that do it if you add a small relay on Ebay (PC1, UPC20) .

That said, are you wanting to turn on more then 10amps? A simple 10a relay in a project box will take be the same thing.

Kevin D.

[Glen B]

Another option is the Smart Strip power strip, which can accomplish the same thing at a very modest cost, and you get the benefit of surge protection. The Smart Strip has a control outlet into which you plug a controlling/triggering device like preamp or receiver. When the controlling device is turned on, the control outlet senses the current draw and this turns on the other outlets on the power strip. Google "Smart Strip power strip" to find a retailer that has the best price.

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LCG3-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B0006PUDQK

[Nolan B]

Niles and Xantech both make pieces that do it. Hell, you can find cheap AMX pieces that do it on Ebay (PC1, UPC20).

That said, are you wanting to turn on more then 10amps? A simple 10a relay in a project box will take be the same thing.

Kevin D.

Holly crap...can you believe I looked into a single switched outlet from Niles and they wanted $219.00 for it! I had to has the guy three times if we were talking about the same thing....i mean this should be a $20-30 max article! no?

can you explain your second idea a little more? Its less them 10 amps for sure.

[Nolan B]

Another option is the Smart Strip power strip, which can accomplish the same thing at a very modest cost, and you get the benefit of surge protection. The Smart Strip has a control outlet into which you plug a controlling/triggering device like preamp or receiver. When the controlling device is turned on, the control outlet senses the current draw and this turns on the other outlets on the power strip. Google "Smart Strip power strip" to find a retailer that has the best price.

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LC.../dp/B0006PUDQK

good idea, but doesnt quite work in the applications I am needing.

[Glen B]

Can you elaborate on what you're looking to do ?

With the relay option, you use the 12V trigger to drive a relay that has a 12V DC coil and contacts rated for the maximum load to be switched (120V AC/?A). When the trigger is on, it energizes the relay coil, closing the contacts and vice versa when the trigger is off.

A snubber circuit connected in parallel with the relay contacts is also highly recommended in order to reduce damage from the arcing that occurs at the contact points each time the load is switched.

Suggested parts values for the snubber are a 100 Ω ½ watt resistor in series with a 0.1uf/250V X rated cap (i.e. a cap rated for use on the AC mains). Digi-Key has a 0.1uf/275V X rated cap, part # BC1601-ND that I've used in this application.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC1601-ND

[Nolan B]

I am trying to control the back lighting I have behind my plasma. I have three lights and all three are connected to each other and lead to 1 cable.

Currently I have it hooked up to the switched outlet in my Rotel 1040 and it works great. Problem is I want to use the "switched outlet" on my 1040 for my sub and amp and unfortunately the switched outlets are also the high current outlets, so that leaves my lights needing to be controlled by something else.

The smart switch power bar wont work because there are two many variations of when I need the back lights on and off and its all programed very well through my processor.

[Glen B]

Nolan, I've got a triggering solution for you that I put together from parts I had laying around. Its includes a 120V/5A relay on a small board. a snubber, fuse to protect the relay contacts from excessive load, and standoffs for mounting in a project box.

The most suitable fuse value I had on hand was a 4 amp (fast blow). The board has two wires going to the trigger and two wires for connection in series with the load.

I tested it with the 12V trigger of my Belkin conditioner and 100W lightbulb as the load and it worked fine. You can have this at no charge, just reimburse me for postage. PM if you're interested.

[CupCak3]

Niles and Xantech both make pieces that do it. Hell, you can find cheap AMX pieces that do it on Ebay (PC1, UPC20).

That said, are you wanting to turn on more then 10amps? A simple 10a relay in a project box will take be the same thing.

Kevin D.

Are there any good solutions for current draws above 10 amps that aren't really expensive? I'd like to do something with my EP2500 but everything I've found so far as too small of a draw or too expensive.

[Nolan B]

Nolan, I've got a triggering solution for you that I put together from parts I had laying around. Its includes a 120V/5A relay on a small board. a snubber, fuse to protect the relay contacts from excessive load, and standoffs for mounting in a project box.

The most suitable fuse value I had on hand was a 4 amp (fast blow). The board has two wires going to the trigger and two wires for connection in series with the load.

I tested it with the 12V trigger of my Belkin conditioner and 100W lightbulb as the load and it worked fine. You can have this at no charge, just reimburse me for postage. PM if you're interested.

Thanks! thats very generous of you.

[Glen B]

Are there any good solutions for current draws above 10 amps that aren't really expensive? I'd like to do something with my EP2500 but everything I've found so far as too small of a draw or too expensive.

For inexpensive your best bet is probably DIY. You can get a relay from DigiKey with a 12V coil and 250V/30A contacts and drive it directly from a 12V trigger or via a 9V-12V wall wart plugged into a switched outlet. Just be forewarned that the trigger outputs from some preamps may not provide enough current to drive the relay coil, in which case you would have to use the wall wart.

As previously mentioned, you will also need to connect a series cap and resistor (snubber) across the relay contacts to help suppress arcing that can damage and even fuse them. This is not hard to implement for anyone with basic electrical knowledege and decent soldering skills.

[mgb]

Don't mean to hijack, but I'm planning to implement a similar relay (120vac with 12vdc trigger) inside a special project and I'm wondering, Glen, if you could possibly post a reverse picture of the triggering solution you put together for Nolan? I'm very green when it comes to circuits and I need some visual aids ops:

Also, I've read that it is important to place a reversed diode in parallel with the relay to avoid a reverse voltage spike. But what kind of diode, with what specs?

A diagram or schematic for this type of thing would be wonderful...

[Glen B]

Here is the schematic. A diode is required when the relay coil is driven by a transistor or IC, to protect the semiconductor from destruction by voltage spikes. The 12V trigger from a preamp or a wall wart may have semiconductor parts such as a voltage regulator that may need such protection, so to be on the safe side, it would not hurt to install a diode. Any common 1A diode such as 1N4001, 1N4004 or 1N4007 will work. Remember to observe proper polarity with connection of the controlling voltage (i.e., positive to the cathode side of the diode). If you're switching 120V AC, you will need the snubber cap to be X rated, 250V for use on the AC mains. If you're switching 12V, the cap will of course be a regular cap.

[mgb]

Thanks Glen. Much appreciated :T

[boingolover]

I just finished a setup that should be good for 20A , but I'm using a solid state relay rather than a mechanical relay. This should eliminate any possibility of arcing, which should also eliminate the need for a snubber circuit, should never fail and I should think that the diode would be irrelevant here as well. Additionally, the current needed to switch is much less than its mechanical cousin so there should be no need for an additional wall wart off the switched a/c. The down side of this setup is it's more expensive to build and also generates a lot more heat when conducting anywhere near its rated 20A, so I had to use a large heatsink. You could probably forego the heatsink if you used a sufficiently large metal project box. Mine was plastic. The parts I used were:

Omron G3NE-220T-US-DC12 20A rated 12V SSR
Omron Y92B-N100 heatsink

I ordered these from mouser electronics, got them both for just under $40 shipped.

I'm curious to get your thoughts on whether or not I should need any sort of isolation with this scenario.

Nathan

[Glen B]

The wall wart mentioned above is for use when the controlling equipment does not have a trigger output. You plug the wall wart into a switched outlet of the controlling preamp or receiver, and the wall wart is used to drive the relay, whether mechanical or solid state. I personally don't like the idea of placing devices that operate at household line voltage in plastic and wood enclosures. I would have used a metal enclosure.

[boingolover]

The wall wart mentioned above is for use when the controlling equipment does not have a trigger output. You plug the wall wart into a switched outlet of the controlling preamp or receiver, and the wall wart is used to drive the relay, whether mechanical or solid state. I personally don't like the idea of placing devices that operate at household line voltage in plastic and wood enclosures. I would have used a metal enclosure.

re the wall wart, earlier you mentioned that in some cases the 12V supplied by the trigger outs doesn't supply enough mA to fire a mechanical relay. For an SSR this shouldn't be an issue, they use very little power.

Re plastic vs. metal, one positive aspect of plastic is that it doesn't conduct. Of course, it does melt. Between the ventilation holes I drilled and the large horkin' heatsink, I'm not worried. Besides, I couldn't find any suitable metal project boxes locally for less then $50. Ratshack had plastic project boxes for about $7. That said, if anyone has any suggestions on good sources for inexpensive metal project boxes, I'd definitely consider one for the next go round. Plastic is a pain to drill / cut.

But back to the original question, can anyone think of any compelling reasons to do any sort of isolation with an SSR?

Nathan

[Glen B]

You're right. This thread is a couple of months old, it was the end of a hectic workday, and I did not go back and read my own post above; I was thinking of another situation. I like metal enclosures for line voltage electrical because they will contain flames and not burn. As long as the box is properly grounded, the conduction aspect should not be an issue. I see no reason to isolate the SSR.

[boingolover]

You're right. This thread is a couple of months old, it was the end of a hectic workday, and I did not go back and read my own post above; I was thinking of another situation. I like metal enclosures for line voltage electrical because they will contain flames and not burn. As long as the box is properly grounded, the conduction aspect should not be an issue. I see no reason to isolate the SSR.

Thanks for the response Glen. So, I have to ask, where do you find your metal project boxes? Do you have a good source for inexpensive ones?

[Glen B]

I get metal project boxes and smaller chassis from Parts Express. For anything small involving 120V, my preferred enclosure where practical is steel electrical junction box, 4" square or larger. Here's a DC blocker I made recently as a favor to someone at another forum where I used a 4" steel junction box and cover.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=PROJECT%20BOXES&srchExt=&perPage=9&sortBy=3&layout=grid&page=2&srchPrice=&srchCat=&srchMfg=&srchPromo=

[boingolover]

I get metal project boxes and smaller chassis from Parts Express. For anything small involving 120V, my preferred enclosure where practical is steel electrical junction box, 4" square or larger. Here's a DC blocker I made recently as a favor to someone at another forum where I used a 4" steel junction box and cover.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...fg=&srchPromo=

very tidy! here are some pics of the plastic box, which is fairly large by comparison, but it needed to be to house the gargantuan heatsink.



The Hammond 1411X would have been about the right size to dissipate the heat. Too bad it's $30, but still a lot cheaper than the prices I found locally.

[Glen B]

Looks good. :T

[brad1138]

Niles and Xantech both make pieces that do it. Hell, you can find cheap AMX pieces that do it on Ebay (PC1, UPC20).

That said, are you wanting to turn on more then 10amps? A simple 10a relay in a project box will take be the same thing.

Kevin D.

Sorry to resurrect this ancient thread, but on the recommendation above, I bought 3 AMX-PC1s from Ebay. The problem is, they work backwards.... When I turn the PrePro on, they go off, when I turn the PrePro off, they go on.... (I have a Emotiva UMC-200, if I turn the trigger(s) off in the settings the PC1s come on...)

I have tried every combination of dip switch settings. Settings other than default (as per manual from their web site) are worse.

There is next to nothing about these anywhere online, this is the only place I could find anyone talking about them.

Although they have a website, I think the company is out of business, their forum was closed in 2006...

The manual on their site is a "quick start guide", but I can't find any more elaborate OM...

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[brad1138]

I think I figured it out.... The AMX-PC1 does not run off of a 12v trigger (as Kevin D said it did). It powers on when you short the 1st 2 pins together. When I plug the mono plug into the PrePro, enough of a short is present to turn it on (comes on even if PrePro isn't plugged in). When I turn on my Prepro, the 12v either eliminates the short, or overloads something in the PC1, turning it off..... Looking at the owner's guide, there is no mention of 12v trigger, only a short is mentioned. It is a crappy manual.

I know I am responsible for what I buy, but I am a little irritated that I wasted $60 due to a bogus recommendation above. You might edit it so no one else makes this mistake.

If I am wrong, I apologize and please let me know, but I don't think I am.

[wkhanna]

Glen's knowledge has been well proven over the years here.
however, he has not posted in a while.

hopefully, one of other members with the requisite expertise will be able to lend light to this issue.

[Kevin D]

Sorry my post implied it would work out of the box, but a small relay is needed to use those with a 12v trigger. You would just need one to trigger all three PC1s, unless you were triggering them separately.

Kevin D,

[brad1138]

Sorry my post implied it would work out of the box, but a small relay is needed to use those with a 12v trigger. You would just need one to trigger all three PC1s, unless you were triggering them separately.

Kevin D,

Thanks. I ended up ordering an "Iot relay" (http://www.digital-loggers.com/iot.html) which I got confirmation from the manufacturer will run on 100 mA (the max output of my trigger).

But, I would rather use the PC-1s. Can you point me to the type of relay I would need. I am not very knowledgeable in that area.

Thanks again,
Brad

[brad1138]

If I google 12v dc normally open relay, I get tons of results, but they all seem to be rated for 120V and seem like much heftier than I need. And I can't find info on minimum required mA to activate it.

[Kevin D]

Look for the Altronix RBSN, looks like coil draw is 15ma. I usually use the RB610, but they only sell them in blocks of 6 so that may be too many for you.

The rating will not matter really, since all your doing a triggering a dry contact closure on the PC-1.

If you can solder, you can always get an appropriate reed relay like the one on the RBSN and incorporate it direct into the trigger cable. It would be small, cheaper, and discrete.

Kevin D.

[brad1138]

Thanks, I had found similar ones as I searched. This one is only 30 mA and I like the connections, more straight forward:

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ELK-912

Now, it would be nice if there was a nice little plastic housing for them...

[Kevin D]

Nice find. Only 1" square I would be tempted to just heat shrink it inline.

Kevin