(Warner) Going Blu-Ray Only

[comeup]

On my way home from work today I heard on the radio that Warner decided to go with Blu-Ray and that they cover 20% of the market. Sony, Disney, and Warner that's a lot of Blu-Rays I still don't have one yet but leaning towards the Blu-Ray. My son does have the Ps3 and I hooked it up to my Elite once and now my mouth is watering and it wasn't the picture that got to me it was the sound didn't know they sounded that good with a optical connection. I think I'm going Blu-Ray

[comeup]

sorry, didn't realize someone posted this topic already

[sirbogey]

sounds like it's time to get a BluRay player soon... will be nice to see what Toshiba's got to say

[Dean McManis]

That's totally lame! I just started watching my Blade Runner HD-DVD disc set yesterday and there is a special insert that specifically says that Warner is completely supporting HD-DVD, and now only a few months later they back out and do this!

Details:

Warner had previously adopted a neutral stance, releasing movies in both the Blu-ray and rival HD DVD formats. Disney, Sony, Lions Gate Entertainment and 20th Century Fox are exclusive Blu-ray providers, while Paramount and DreamWorks Animation signed deals in August to sell movies exclusively in the HD DVD format for the next 18 months.

So it means that there are going to be unavailable movies for both formats, at least for the next 2 years or so.

Which is stupid.

[comeup]

I believe Warner will support HD DVD for another year or so

[Ovation]

Officially, until May 2008. Realistically, they will release those HD DVDs already in production but I doubt they will start up any new production lines.

[ricky_rocket]

Officially, until May 2008. Realistically, they will release those HD DVDs already in production but I doubt they will start up any new production lines.

With all the studio support (Sony, MGM, Disney, 20th Cent. Fox, Warner Bros. NewLine) Blu Ray represent 70% of the potenial home market. Blu Ray has won the war.

HD DVD will die a slow death. By 2010 I bet it will be extinct.

[Hdale85]

And I bet not long after that Blu-Ray will be dead as well. Maybe 2012-2015.

[Race Car Driver]

Iim fine with a bluray investment until 2015, thats 7 years from now.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I've got both already.

[comeup]

Bought a Blu-Ray player a few weeks ago and only Bought two movies since then can't get myself to spend more than 20$ on a movie and if both don't come down on prices both will be dead. I just bought three movies tonight, (DVD VIDEO 8O )

[PewterTA]

Blu Ray (or HD-DVD for that matter) will only be around for another 4 years max. They have Terabyte flash drives coming out, MB data lines in production and the "on-demand" video streaming (in HD) already here.

I just don't see much use in the next few years of producing a disc when it's so cheaper/easier to host the movie on a server and stream it. Also much easier to put it on a "flash-type" device that they can have you "rent" and then send back to put a different movie on and send back out.

Just seems both formats are going to go away pretty quickly...especially since there's "beyond HD" that's coming closer to be put out in products (beyond 1080p) that will, I think, be coming as soon as the analog signals go away.

[George Bellefontaine]

I don't think hi-def discs will disappear altogether. There are still a lot of people who aren't into computers, and there are still and will continue to be people, like me, who want to collect, and like browsing the titles at local outlets. The thing is, this stupid war has to end completely with Universal and Paramount gooing blu, and then prices have to come down to earth. But regardless of how long they last, it sure is great having the " film " experience on a big screen in your own home theater. :T

[Lex]

That's fine Pewter, but don't you remember how well Circuit City's "rental" stratagy worked out with the discs that were activated for 48 hours or something?

I don't really want to use bandwidth to watch a movie, I don't want to watch it on my computer, and I don't want a computer in my home theater. So?

[littlesaint]

That's fine Pewter, but don't you remember how well Circuit City's "rental" stratagy worked out with the discs that were activated for 48 hours or something?

I don't really want to use bandwidth to watch a movie, I don't want to watch it on my computer, and I don't want a computer in my home theater. So?

If you use a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player, you technically already have a computer in your home theater.

CES already had numerous examples of set-top boxes to facilitate streaming or downloading of media for viewing on a HDTV. Broadcast/cable TV has reached a saturation point as far as available spectrum. The way to "fix" this, is to eliminate it altogether and use the spectrum for broadband streaming of IPv6 multicast channels. This allows for more than enough bandwidth for HD, whether as multicasts, on-demand streaming, or downloads over broadband. The technology is already here (Internet2), it's just a matter of re-working the infrastructure.

[Lex]

Well, ok, if you want to get technical, but I think you know what I meant. I don't want to boot windoze in my system, thanks. Frankly, I have had lockups on my HD units too, not really great, but at least I don't have to run system scans yet. Technically, my TiVo is also a computer, but again, not a windoze.

Ok, let me rephrase this, I am NOT interested in downloading movies. I'm not RENTING movies.

I mean really? The WHOLE purpose of HD DVD or BD is "movie ownership". If I just want to rent a movie? I got that already on DirecTV, in HD. Granted, the audio format is limited, and I have to watch what is available, true, but it's acceptable for a rental. So, they need to sell someone else besides me. :-)

[Ovation]

It doesn't matter how much broadband is available--internet is not even in the majority of households yet. Add to that the fact that really high speed internet is EXPENSIVE (a lot more than a Netflix subscription) AND you have to turn your HT into a computer network... Moreover, UNLIKE music downloads--which are yours to keep on at least ONE device (don't get me started about what I think of those limitations)--MOVIE downloads appear to be headed for the same system as my current VOD arrangement with my cable company. I "download" the movie and get to watch it for 24 hours. Then it's BYE-BYE. I can make a poor copy of it if I want, but I don't want a POOR copy.

I don't download lo-res limited use music files--why would I want to do the same with movies? And make no mistake, downloaded movies in "HD" will likely be 720p with extreme compression, at best (it's not like the music download model has not down-rezzed audio or anything)--not like the beautiful versions of Blade Runner, Casablanca and many others currently available on disc. NO THANKS. Until and unless I can get at least the same quality I now get with HDM discs AND I can make a physical copy as a backup in case my "hard drive" (whether the standard ones used now or the newly emerging large "flash" drives) fails--fuggedaboutit. I will NOT rely one drive to store ALL my movies. That's just madness.

[Hdale85]

Add to that the fact that really high speed internet is EXPENSIVE

This is just not true I have a 15Mbit ADSL2+ line and its like 45 bucks as month. Verizon is rolling out ther FiOS everywhere and it has about the same price/speed. They also offer connections up to like 40Mbit. So the speed is there at a reasonable price.

[littlesaint]

...

I don't download lo-res limited use music files--why would I want to do the same with movies? And make no mistake, downloaded movies in "HD" will likely be 720p with extreme compression, at best (it's not like the music download model has not down-rezzed audio or anything)--not like the beautiful versions of Blade Runner, Casablanca and many others currently available on disc. NO THANKS. Until and unless I can get at least the same quality I now get with HDM discs AND I can make a physical copy as a backup in case my "hard drive" (whether the standard ones used now or the newly emerging large "flash" drives) fails--fuggedaboutit. I will NOT rely one drive to store ALL my movies. That's just madness.

Stop thinking in todays technology. A Blu-ray film requires 50Mbps of peak bandwidth. Average bandwidth comes in at around 35Mbps. This is with VC-1 compression, that still has room for improvement. The latest spec for cable modem technology increases bandwidth to 150Mbps. What the final model is going to be is TBD. However, your HT is going to turn into a network no matter what. The providers are already working to switch to IP based multicast networks for delivering "channels". If the bandwidth supports HD quality, why fight it? It's not too hard to envision an archival system that allows backup to disc in the form of HD-DVD or BD with appropriate DRM. No doubt there will still be direct-to-disc distribution, but all of the studios are already signed on to download distribution (as Apple has shown). Neither HD-DVD or BD can claim the same consensus.

[george_k]

Bought two movies since then can't get myself to spend more than 20$

I agree, the movies are too pricey!

I've only bought 2 blu-ray movies so far as well (departed and 300). I bought them mostly because you couldn't rent them at the time. I've had my PS3 since Dec of last year.

Just yesterday, I was thinking of picking up 3:10 Yuma but it costs $28 up here, I could rent it from Blockbuster twice for $12-13, so it's a no-brainer that the better option for me is to rent. I don't think I'll be buying any more movies until they come down in price, I guess we've all be spoiled with the price of DVD's lately.

[george_k]

I just don't see much use in the next few years of producing a disc when it's so cheaper/easier to host the movie on a server and stream it. Also much easier to put it on a "flash-type" device that they can have you "rent" and then send back to put a different movie on and send back out.

The latest spec for cable modem technology increases bandwidth to 150Mbps.

These are both interesting points for different reasons.

The concept of on-demand access is truly nice conceptually speaking, I highly doubt it won't come without it's set of annoyances. The nice thing about discs is that they work pretty much all the time. There's no intermediary systems that may hiccup or at worst fail miserably.

The 150Mbps you mention is the theoretical bandwidth, whether cable providers actually deliver it is a totally different story. Case in point, my current DSL subscription is supposedly rated at 5Mbps but, the fastest I've ever been able to download *keyword ever* (5 years with the same company) was around 500-600 Kbps (0.5-0.6 Mbps)

Another limitation with cable internet is the so-called "bandwidth sharing" between your house and whatever other houses are connected to the same sub-station.

On top of it all you'll also have to deal with slowed content providing servers when demand picks up (i.e. Apple). Could you imagine how slow the servers will be on the release day of a blockbuster movie? It will definitely make streaming/downloading a pain. I already experience a similar problem on the PS3 with Sony's Playstation Store. Every time they release a new system update or must-have demo it takes way longer for me to get it than it would under normal (non-peak demand) circumstances. Another recent example was the series of Xbox Live outages you may have heard about over the Christmas holiday. Basically, MS was unprepared for the amount of demand that was placed on their networks.

From a consumer perspective I don't see the benefit of content based distribution, I agree that is cheaper but whether its easier for the consumer is debatable :-)

Maybe I'm old school but if they continue to have a disc option moving forward, I will continue to support that alternative.

[George Bellefontaine]

Maybe I'm old school but if they continue to have a disc option moving forward, I will continue to support that alternative.

Same here, and you can bet that alternative will be around for many many moons.

[Race Car Driver]

Same here, and you can bet that alternative will be around for many many moons.

Chalk another one up for discs. :T

[Ovation]

Stop thinking in todays technology. A Blu-ray film requires 50Mbps of peak bandwidth. Average bandwidth comes in at around 35Mbps. This is with VC-1 compression, that still has room for improvement. The latest spec for cable modem technology increases bandwidth to 150Mbps. What the final model is going to be is TBD. However, your HT is going to turn into a network no matter what. The providers are already working to switch to IP based multicast networks for delivering "channels". If the bandwidth supports HD quality, why fight it? It's not too hard to envision an archival system that allows backup to disc in the form of HD-DVD or BD with appropriate DRM. No doubt there will still be direct-to-disc distribution, but all of the studios are already signed on to download distribution (as Apple has shown). Neither HD-DVD or BD can claim the same consensus.

Not where I live. If I want that kind of ACTUAL speed (not theoretical), I have pony up about 75$/month--I'll take zip.ca (our version of Netflix) at 25$/month, thank you. For all other purposes, my regular "hi-speed" internet connection is fine at 20$/month.

As for an "archival system"--the current DRM music models are NOT promising. Again. NO THANKS. And the quality will NOT be what it is on HDM--I guarantee it. It will be the video equivalent of 128kbps mp3 to .wav (where the .wav file represents what we get on HDM). I don't want "HD lite" no matter HOW convenient it may be.

[H.T.C]

I don't think hi-def discs will disappear altogether. There are still a lot of people who aren't into computers, and there are still and will continue to be people, like me, who want to collect, and like browsing the titles at local outlets. The thing is, this stupid war has to end completely with Universal and Paramount gooing blu, and then prices have to come down to earth. But regardless of how long they last, it sure is great having the " film " experience on a big screen in your own home theater. :T

Woolworths,uk, has issued a statement that hd-dvd is online sales only and blue ray in stores because of units sold.

[Lex]

Ovation, well said, I will continue to think in terms of today's technologies, becasue that is what we have, and the fact is, I'm a programmer analyst at the office, when I turn on my theater it's for mindless entertainment, not to become an analyst at home too!!! I realized this very quickly when I made a futile attempt at HTPC, what a waist of good resources that was. Computing and home theater belong separate as far as I am concerned. Joining the two technologies is self defeating IMO.

Now if they want to put it into a plug and play box, I'll consider it, but I am still not renting movies. I may rent effectively by having Showtime, but that's it for me, why would I want to pay for a rental for just me? It's totally cost inefficient.

[Hdale85]

Downloading HD content isn't going to require anything thats remotely as complicated or as hard to keep working as an HTPC. Things like the apple tv and what not will become normal and with services like IPTV is where HD media will eventually go. Although can't say I'd be happy with it I like discs. Point is though that HTPC's have never really taken off so well and I don't see them as becoming something that is going to be common.

[comeup]

Another one for disc here and I love collecting and think Blu-Ray will win the war, also I think downloading movies will be around thanks to Apple, although I have not done it yet.

Again I say this Blu-Ray discs are too expensive why are they charging so much? I hardly ever see people buying Hi Def material. The other day I saw someone at Best Buy returning a Sony Blu-Ray player and I asked why are you returning this player thinking it was a problem with it and he told me that the discs are too expensive and not enough to choose from.

I think prices will eventually go down, but for now even though I have a Blu-Ray player I will keep buying regular dvd videos and buy Blu-Ray discs with movies that I will really enjoy can't wait to see (I Am Legend) on Blu-Ray.

I see businesses kill themselves all the time charging too much or being greedy, example an Arco gas station by my house is charging 3.13 a gallon and across the street a Shell station is charging 3.30 a gallon with no customers and the Arco station has a line going into the street with customers buying gas, coffee, food etc. I know the owner at the Shell station can drop his prices a little because I buy gas from a different Shell around the corner for 3.19 a gallon. He is killing his business with greed wanting every penny for his product instead of selling for volume.

Warner and everyone else needs to drop prices so we can start buying, hell my Denon 3910 dvd player dam near has a good as picture as my Blu-Ray its a heck of an up converting player. Dvd video is still really good with a High End dvd player and don't forget about (Oppo).

Go Blu-Ray, but drop prices

[audioqueso]

Sometimes this forum group is funny.

First, we forget that a lot of members in this forum spoil overselves.

This is just not true I have a 15Mbit ADSL2+ line and its like 45 bucks as month.

Doug, what are you talking about? That is expensive compared to most basic high-speed internet that start at $20. It's not, but in general $45 is a lot for internet.
----------------------------------------------
Then, we forget that most of us here have spent waaaayyyy too much on audio toys.

...bought two movies since then can't get myself to spend more than 20$ on a movie

I agree, the movies are too pricey!

----------------------------------------------
But it's all good. :T

[comeup]

Audioqueso,

(I think Doug is saying he has DSL+phone service for 45 bucs)

When I buy movies I usually buy 3 or 4 at a time and with Blu-Ray discs that could be an easy 140 Bucs at 35$ a piece. With dvd video sometimes I walk out the store spending no more than30-50$ for four movies (BIG Difference). I see movies on sale all the time 4.99, 7.99, 9.99 no more than 20$ at Best Buy but Blu-Ray are 25 & up. new releases 34.99 each. ouch

[Hdale85]

Actually its a package for phone and ADSL2+ (type of dsl service capable of speeds of 15+ MBPS) the total package is 59.99 a month so I don't consider that expensive considering I get unlimited long distance and all that and show me a 15MB internet connection for near that cheap? I don't consider 45 bucks a month expensive when people are spending 100+ a month on cable/satellite alone.

[audioqueso]

Gotcha! (to both of you) :T

But back to the subject, when DVDs became popular they were always released at $25-30. Now they're $20 for new releases. BR and HD discs are both selling at about the same price DVDs were at first. It'll lower with time... and by then, THD will be out by then. :B :B

...either way, Sony got it right this time.

[Chris D]

I have a 15Mbit ADSL2+ line and its like 45 bucks as month

Wow, I'm jealous! I have to pay about $60 per month just for 756 Kbps DSL. Is this uber-speed internet coming to everyone nation-wide? I haven't heard about it! I'd hate to tell J6P that "yeah, streaming HD video is now the only way to get HD movies... too bad you don't live in a major metropolitan area to use it."

Again I say this Blu-Ray discs are too expensive why are they charging so much? I hardly ever see people buying Hi Def material.

That's exactly why it's so expensive. Both the BD and HD-DVD executives to me in person that the discs are more expensive because it doesn't yet have the larger volume of DVD or VHS. I didn't think about it until later, but I should have asked them, "So... you're telling me you'll commit to dropping prices as volume increases?"

Maybe I'm old school but if they continue to have a disc option moving forward, I will continue to support that alternative.

And another one here... I'll be a disc guy, just like now I buy discs, not MP3.

[impala454]

Two words: Memory Cards. They're getting smaller, higher capacity, and cheap. IMHO they will replace optical discs at some point. Until then, I'll enjoy HD-DVD/Blu-ray

[Lagare Lout]

This is just not true I have a 15Mbit ADSL2+ line and its like 45 bucks as month. Verizon is rolling out ther FiOS everywhere and it has about the same price/speed. They also offer connections up to like 40Mbit. So the speed is there at a reasonable price.

Don't know about the US, but here in Australia a $70 plan will be limited to about 12 Gb total data at 1.5mbps, choked to 64kbps thereafter. Makes driving three or four hours and paying $50 for a blu ray disc look like an exercise in time management and frugality...

For those of us who want quality audio and video, internet based servers are not going to be the answer for some time.

Back on topic, blu ray discs are around USD$35 in Australia, if a range of 'classic' discs were released at $USD20-25 I think there would be greater adoption by the mass market. At present the format is pricing itself out of the market at least here in Oz.

[H.T.C]

Two words: Memory Cards. They're getting smaller, higher capacity, and cheap. IMHO they will replace optical discs at some point. Until then, I'll enjoy HD-DVD/Blu-ray

Good point ,was thinking when that would occur now that 50 gig cards are just around the corner. The media is easier to keep and needs less room with the best point being no or hardly any machanical failure "except for card malfuction" being that there is no lazer or even tray holder to move.

It was tried over ten years ago but could not fit more than 55 minutes on the av card.

[audioqueso]

Honestly, based on US trends, I doubt memory cards will ever replace DVD,BD, etc discs. At least not in the US. Look at zip disks and MDs. MDs were just that. It died in the US.

[Chris D]

Don't know about the US, but here in Australia a $70 plan will be limited to about 12 Gb total data at 1.5mbps, choked to 64kbps thereafter. Makes driving three or four hours and paying $50 for a blu ray disc look like an exercise in time management and frugality...

For those of us who want quality audio and video, internet based servers are not going to be the answer for some time.

Good point... for internet streaming video to really become "the way of the future" for HD video, you're not only going to have to have capable internet connections/bandwith for everyone in the United States, you'll have to provide mega-fast internet to everyone in the WORLD.

Right now, anybody in the entire world, if they wanted HD video bad enough, could have a high-def disc player and TV shipped to them. Only limitation would be whether they had electricity to plug it in somewhere. In order for HD streaming video to become a reality, you'll have to follow a checklist...
- Do you have mega-fast internet available at your house?
- Are less than 100 people in your neighborhood currently using the internet, so they won't clog up the bandwith?
- Are you running at least Windows XP or higher, or Mac OS X or higher?
- Do you have at least 2 GB memory?
- Do you have at least a 2.4 Ghz processor?
- Do you have a video card with at least ......

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

full HD internet video would be a reality only for privileged few, and those who want to spend big bucks to get and maintain the right equipment and services. I myself wouldn't even be one of the lucky few, no matter HOW much moneyI spent, as I doubt we'll get mega-fast internet where I live for at LEAST another 5 years, if not more!!!

[comeup]

Also,

about downloading movies

I think the (average person) will not take the time to learn how to do all this. Ask my wife to download a movie and put it on a disc yea right she wouldn't know where to start. Most don't know. I can't see it flying. It's so easy to just put a disc in the drive.....

[Hdale85]

Umm it would be a graphical interface where you click the movie you want and it downloads automatically the box connects to your T.V and there is no burning to discs.

[TNRRClassic]

Someone had better put up some good satellites if HD downloads are to be successful, because the majority of the land area of North America has no other alternative for high speed internet. For those living in metro areas, it may be unimaginable, but reaching 12k on dialup can be a challenge for a lot of people. ISDN at 128k was the high speed option until $70 per month satellite service became available. I think that physical media will remain viable for some time when you take rural areas into consideration. Imagine the internet conditions for the rest of the world.

[Hdale85]

I don't think satellite internet can go over a certain speed due to latency issues and what not.

[Ovation]

I don't think satellite internet can go over a certain speed due to latency issues and what not.

Which is a further argument AGAINST the complete supplanting of physical media by downloads. I can imagine that flash drives of sufficient size and reliability will supplant optical discs but that would still remain a PHYSICAL medium. When they make memory cards/USB drives/whatever format at 50 gigs for a price that is profitable for the studios to pre-load them with films in HD, then I can see current HDM going by the wayside. However, just as some players already can read some of these flash drives from digital cameras, I would think that "dual format" players will be developed. It would take little to add to a Blu-ray (or even HD DVD) player the necessary gear while they could also make iPod sized (if they wanted--though some people would still like a device that fits their rack and has a numerical display on it) device strictly for the new format. I don't mind if that is where things go. As long as A) I can still buy the movie in a physical format and B) the CE companies don't fight over the format itself (although with small flash drives, there's no reason there can't be multiple interfaces on the same device, just like on a PC today).

[George Bellefontaine]

I don't mind if that is where things go. As long as A) I can still buy the movie in a physical format and B) the CE companies don't fight over the format itself (although with small flash drives, there's no reason there can't be multiple interfaces on the same device, just like on a PC today).

Yeah, that would be ok with me, too.

[H.T.C]

It appears the animation movie studio adv has gone blue-ray only.