Sibilance with Sony 777ES

[DavidY]

Besides keeping the volume down, how can "fix" this problem with my Sony 777ES receiver and Paradigm Reference speakers?

It only happens occassionally, in particular with female vocals. Last night, the problem was very evident with Sarah Brightman's commentary on her "One Night in Eden" DVD. Otherwise, the DVD worked out fine, may be a touch bright/forward in her vocals. BTW, my Sony's EQ settings are the same as the factory settings (i.e., no adjustments).

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dave

[Lexman]

Sell it? Honestly, I am not sure I understand the problem. But I am not a huge Sony advocate now, so I would recommend taking one Elite and call me in the morning.

Lex

[Andrew Pratt]

Well here's another option, what interconnects and speaker cable are you using? You might be surprised at the differences that you can hear with different analog interconnects. MIT speaker cables may help tone down the brightness with the coils they use inline on the cables. Is the problem mainly with DVD's or with CD's as well?Are you using the DAC in the CD player or the Sony's? Try swapping those around and see if the other DAC helps. If you're using the CD players DAC then definitely try different interconnects as they can be significant differences in sound b/t various brands/types etc.

[KennyG]

Sony and Paradigm together is a recipe for sibilance problems, I would imagine the louder you listen the worse everything starts to sound, and if you enjoy your music at a high level your ears probably fatigue pretty fast and you either turn it down or turn it off.
Sony has a sound that is forward in the treble regions, or an other word used to discribe it is "Bright". Team that up with a bright sounding speaker, which Paradigm is, and now you have a sound that can be piercing, and at times grating. My daughter's system also uses Paradigm, but, teamed with a Denon reciever the sound is somewhat more tame in the high regions.
Andrew's idea with the cables may save the day.

[John Holmes]

I Had the same problem in my system. As Andrew stated I tried some MIT speaker wire and in my system it helped. You may also try something to "deadin" the room a tad.




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[ThomasW]

Well, here I go again...........

[rant on]
I've got 2 Sony receivers, and Jon's Sony 9000ES power amp was recently here for a long audition. In addition there are 2 Sony TAN-220 power amps running effects channels. These use the BTL (balanced transformerless) bridging circuits.

Also I've had Denon equipment for decades. This includes their biggest integrated amp and 2-POA-4400's and 2-POA 6600's monoblocks.

Now all these various devices have powered everything from the big ESL's, to any number of my DIY cone/dome projects.

The point is that Sony's amps aren't hot or sibilant. They do tend to be somewhat revealing of the source. Some people mistake this for hot. The Denon amps actually tend to be less revealing. Some people would equate that with "soft"
[/rant off]

"Gee Thomas, that's great, but get to the real point"

Ok, ok,

Now that that's off my chest, my recommendation is, first consider the DVD player and the source material. DVD's are not a pure PCM signal, the 5.1 DD signals are compressed. This most often manifests itself as problems in the treble.

Do you hear the same problems with CD in the DVD player? How about CD's in a CD player in the same system?

Also you only mention certain software and "female" voices. There is great variation in the overall tonal balance between sources. So solving a problem for one or two titles may cause additional problems for others, ie too soft.

There nothing wrong with using the built in EQ. Try a 7500Hz(7.5Khz) setting and drop the level 3db, play the DVD again, see what happens.

Andrew's suggestion about trying different wires is a good global solution, if the problem is with ALL sources.

I use this myself because I don't like the "sound" from any pre/pro. So I use a "darker" interconnect from the pre/pro as compared to the rest of the "audio only" system.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Lexman]

Yes, Accoustics should not be discounted John. Your right.

In fact, they are number one in terms of the sound we reproduce. You would be surprised what a few blankets thrown around the room on furniture alone can do! Let alone insulatory blinds, perimeter rugs. Even a macrome' wall hanging as well as adding soft furniture and/or more furniture. All these things can have the impact of softening what you hear. For some equipment, the environment needs to be.... yes Tuned. Personally, I am fortunate that my equipment, all be it great equipment, matches very well accoustically with my environment. That is of course, the best of both worlds. Room measured parameters say my room has some nulls and that sort of thing, but to the ear, it's quite nice I think.

Additionally, you might consider a different speaker, if you can afford that option. Something with a soft dome tweeter comes to mind towards taming "revealing" electronics.

I think that's a little better answer than my first one.


Lex

[DavidY]

Thanks for all the great replies.

Lex, I had found the Pioneer 26TX's midrange to be a touch aggressive with both male and female vocals (auditioned with Studio/60 V.2). Also, a few problems with bad soldering and overrated power put me off. As noted below, I love my Paradigm Reference speakers. Very dynamics and crisp sounding. I guess there is a fine line between what I really like and listener fatigue. The Marantz SR19 was a bit dull to me. Or maybe I am just too picky.

Andrew, I am using a number of different interconnects including Radioshack Golds, Phoenix Gold, Ultralink Challenger. Speaker wire is Ultralink Reference and Monster XP. At moderately high volumes (-25dB below reference -- I live in an apartment), it seems a lot of DVD's gets a bit crisp/bright. However, the Sarah Brightman's DVD was extremely bad during the commentary (at only moderate volumes). With my previous Technics receiver, the Toshiba DVD player was quite bright for CD's. Not sure what it's like with the Sony 777ES. No digital out on CD player.

Kenny, I had auditioned the Denon 4800. It was very good, not great. Thought the bass was a bit loose and the sound a touch dull IMO. I really the dynamic sound of the Paradigm's. IMO, I think that the Sony is pretty neutral with a hint of being bright. The Technics was noticeably brighter, even at 75dB.

John, my room is probably quite lively (bare walls with regular carpeting). Any suggestions to deaden it?

Thomas, the brightness or sibilance seems to be more noticeable with female vocals. I would love to adjust the EQ settings. But I don't want to change them without knowing what I am doing. Too much guesswork. Do you know if there is a MP3 file that plays 5 to 10 seconds at various frequencies between, say 1KHz and 20KHz (lower is better). Then with a RS sound meter, I can adjust the EQ settings accordingly. I think that TerryC at HTF has a MP3 file that does frequencies below 80 or 100Hz (however, I had problems downloading it -- way too slow even on ADSL).

Dave

[Lexman]

Dave, I did give you some suggestions above on specifics relating to accoustics. Add to that hanging decorative quilts.

You may well be right on the mids and Elites. The Elites can tend to the warm side perhaps. For my application in the bedroom, mine serves me very well. I finish watching things late at night. That's about all I do with it. But then I like a pronounced mid-range. It certainly does sound like you did your homework before choosing your receiver. That's great, glad to hear it. It's what sounds best to you that matters most!

Lex

[John Holmes]

DavidY,
Lex hit easiest and cheap way to go (and my favorite:B). I have put blankets on the walls and added throw pillows to see if it would help...it did! You might also try using the wonderful search guide of this forum to find some accoustic panels. They are a good investment for a lively room. I know www.audioadvisor.com had a great deal on some about six weeks ago.

Also I have a 27tx matched with some M&K LCR. They sound is quite laid back which surprised me using a THX speaker. But again I do have MIT wire in line too.




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[Andrew Pratt]

Well try and add something on those walls and see if it helps. You might also try a pair of MIT speaker cables which will help tame those high feq's.

[ThomasW]

David

If you have a laptop with a sound card or can get a line out from your PC to the receiver download the "tone generator" from here

http://www.nch.com.au/action/index.html

The file is only 203kb. Don't use square waves use sine waves.

If all you're doing is dropping the top end a little, just trust your ears. You can always return to the default settings if you get lost.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Lexman]

Thanks John.

Lex

[John Holmes]

Lex,
:W




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[DavidY]

Based on your opinions, I will try to do the following:

1. Deaden the room with sound absorbing wall hangings and such.

2. Since I don't have a laptop, I will have to play by ear with the EQ settings. Besides the flexible bass management, that's one of the main reasons why I had purchased the Sony 777ES.

3. Borrow some MIT interconnects (or speaker cable? - forgot which) from a friend.

Thanks for all your help. It is very much appreciated.

Dave