Need upgrade advise

**Lex** · 19 March 2002, 09:23 Tuesday

Hey Bob, way to upgrade.

What is it about the Marantz that turned you off? Curious.

I am not familiar with the mid-line 5 channel you mentioned. Shelborne I think.

I am very familiar with AMP5, and somewhat familiar with Bryston, though never actually heard one.

I think the first question that rises is this. Do you plan to change speakers at some point soon? That could well influence your amplifier choice. I think Def Tech tend to the brighter side, with their metal dome tweeters, and thus may not be a great candidate for a wide open transparent amp such as the AMP5. This is only speculation. They may in fact sound great with the amp, I can't say for sure.

Any way you can audition any of these? It would be best if you could with your speakers.

Finally, if you want an amp that you can be happy with for 20 years, get the Proceed or the Bryston. That's my take regardless of speakers and pre-amp. Those things will likely change later, but amps can be like rocks. Plant a good one, and don't move it.

Absolutely love my Proceeds.

Lex

**Markj** · 19 March 2002, 12:15 Tuesday

What is it that you think your current amps are doing? There is no question that the Proceed and Bryston amps are excellent. But is there a reason to go with these amps. If your speakers are a difficult load and you like playing them loud, would be a good reason to go with the better amps. By difficult load I mean the speakers are low efficiency in the 86dbs or drop below 4 ohms, or if you are planning to replace your current speakers with speakers that are a difficult load.

There is nothing wrong with pride of ownership either, if you want a Proceed or Bryston then get them.

**Bob Santos** · 20 March 2002, 00:29 Wednesday

Actually I havent even listened to the MM9000 yet..LOL
The weakest part of my system has for a while been amplification.
I bought the Marantz on impulse just because I wanted to replace my amp, and it happened to cost just about exactly what I had in my pocket. I know it's probably a decent am, and definately a step up from my previous HK Pa5800. My original amp plan was to wait
and get something I know I will be happy with for years to come.
I just dont feel I will get that with the Marantz. All I have read about it says it's not in the same leauge as the offerings from B&K
Rotel, parasound, and others in the $2000 range.
So I got to thinking....If I am not happy knowing that there is better than what I have for a bit more, then I will probably feel the same if I get say a B&k Ref7250, or say a Rotel 1095. That has me thinking I should look a bit higher, where any move mould be more lateral, than upgrade. So I thought to look in the league of the Bryston, and Proceed. In this range I would probably need to go used, so auditioning wont be an option. Or if I go new I would have to go to a different dealer than my favorite one, so a in home would probably also not be possible.

So most of this week I did lots of reading, and researching.
And today I decided to order a Odyssey Stratos HT3.
I read about these amps for hours, and not a bad word was said.
Nothing but rave reviews. They are a factory direct only company, and have a 30 day return policy. So If I am not happy with it I can send it back. If I am happy I will order a 2ch for my surrounds, then another for my rear surrounds.
If you are not familiar with them here is thier website
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html

Lex, Heres my take on a transparent amp.
The way I figure if you dont like the sound of your speakers with a transparent amp, then you dont like the sound of your speakers.

**ThomasW** · 20 March 2002, 02:13 Wednesday

Certainly wish you'd of have mentioned that you were considering the Stratos in your earlier post.....

If you're on a waiting list I'd suggest rethinking the order. Stratos have a 'cult' following so sometimes the truth is difficult to find.

I've auditioned the Stratos and it's certainly not transparent. It's a pretty good amp for systems that aren't too revealing.

My understanding is that somewhere they Odyessy claims the amp runs in class "A" mode at lower output levels. That's impossible given how cool it operates. They have a low number of output devices/channel, this means that they are being worked pretty hard when the amp is running at high volumes.

It's not that its a bad amp but it's certainly not in the same league as some of the other amps you listed including the Sherbourn

Be prepared because Klaus claims the Stratos must be left on 24/7 in order to sound good (it's a 'synergy' thing so he claims :roll: ). And it takes weeks and weeks of break in time, again according to Klaus.

klaus also claims that they don't use a bigger power transformer because when they tried one it screwed up the bass. That's either an out and out lie to justify not upgrading the transformer or it's indictive of a significant design issue with the amp.

Jon Marsh has expressed concerns about the circuit topology of the amp. But Klaus refuses to discuss technical aspects of the design, claiming that he's only the mfgr's rep and not not qualified to discuss technical issues. Sounds like a stall to Jon and me.

So as usual caveat emptor......

theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

**Bob Santos** · 20 March 2002, 02:34 Wednesday

Thomas,
Thanks for the heads up.
That is the first negative thing I have heard about these amps.
I just placed the order today. There is a 6 to 8 week wait for it, so I have some time to re-think.

Thanks again

**Lex** · 20 March 2002, 09:12 Wednesday

claiming that he's only the mfgr's rep and not not qualified to discuss technical issues

Hmmm, that's certainly not how the claims seemed. It was basically, we manufacture this stuff according to the web site. I was hesitant to say it could be any more than a Parasound rated amp, at the prices charged. But I hate to be to negative about something I haven't even seen or heard.

If it takes weeks and weeks to break in, what 5 weeks? So, the return period is up?

Good point on transparency Bob. Hey, how about Aragon Bob? Jon and Thomas think the world of Aragon, and both are users. Might want to give them consideration. Less than the price of a Proceed, but maybe every bit as good.

Lex

**ThomasW** · 20 March 2002, 11:05 Wednesday

We did a fairly comprehensive day long shootout between an older Aragon 8008ST and a new Stratos with the cap upgrade.

The audio system used for the shootout was a tri-amped set of Apogee fullrange ribbons = $25,000/pr. A Sony XA-777ES SACD player and the new Lexicon MC-12 pre/pro. The amp shootout was done having the Aragon vs the Stratos driving the mid/tweeter section of the Apogees.

The Aragon offered a level of control over the speakers that the Stratos couldn't provide. Although slightly 'etched' (common complaint against stock Aragons) sounding; there were levels of detail, depth, and soundstage that were evident with the Aragon that didn't exist with the Stratos.

In the end we put a Ayre V-5 in the system and it opened up a whole new world of musicality. As detailed and controlled as the Aragon, but significantly more musical. Understand that this is an appples vs oranges comparsion because the used Aragon ST cost $1200 and a Ayre V-5 is $4000.

Now whether or not these differences would be audible in less revealing systems is of course up for debate. The goal of the shootout was to have the most absolutely revealing loudspeaker system available, so that differences in components could be easily heard. To that end the shootout was a complete success. In my book the Apogee fullranges are the finest loud speaker I've ever heard. Too bad the company no longer exists.......

A little addendum regarding Klaus. According to him everything in the audio world must function with complete 'synergy' for a system to sound right. So there must be a 'synergy' between the cables, wire, front end components, amps, loudspeakers etc, etc. And if the synergy isn't there, the system can't function up to it's full potential. Trying to pin him down on what he means ends by this ends up with a flurry of nonsensical psycho-babble.

theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

**Bob Santos** · 20 March 2002, 15:35 Wednesday

Thomas,
Thanks for providing that info.
It sure does seem that maybe the Odyssey isn't all I hoped it would be.
I figured better be safe than sorry, and e-mailed them to cancell my order. Plus when I explained to my wife that there would we would end up having 3 power amps in our living room to get a 7 ch system she wasn't very happy

Ok so back to the drawing board

Lex, The Aragons are definately something I will consider. They have a new line of amps coming out that look promising.
Hopefully the new amps under Klipsh's ownership will be a;; that the older ones are.
They also have thier Stage One pre/pro coming that looks to be real nice.

**ThomasW** · 20 March 2002, 15:51 Wednesday

Bob

The 'new' Aragons are basically new cosmetic faces put on the previous designs. A very good catch would be a NOS (new old stock) 8008-5B. These are going for about $2500. That's 5-200 watt channels. Be aware that this amps weighs in at 107 lbs.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampsmult&1021533164&class&3&4&

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1021420736&class&3&4&

In addition to the Sherbourn look at the Anthem amps from Sonic Frontiers. These are very good too.

Good luck
Thomas

theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

**P-Dub** · 20 March 2002, 15:54 Wednesday

Bob: What did you do with your PA5800?

Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

**Bob Santos** · 20 March 2002, 16:59 Wednesday

Paul, I sold my Hk.

Thomas, Thanks for the info on the Aragon's.
I didnt know the new models used the same design.

Since I do have the Marantz , and my HT wont be set back up for a good 3-4 weeks. I should be in no hurry to purchase.
But you kow how it is when you have HT money in your pocket. Cat wait to get rid of it. LOL
So I am gonna spend a little more time researching.

Need upgrade advise

Need upgrade advise

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