Wallstreet Journal - Sales Figures for new format

[Nolan B]

This is the first article I have read that compares sales figures. Thought it would be an interesting read for you.

Looks like HD DVD way out sold BD. Think this has something to do with the LG dual disc player?

"About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD-DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out."

[JonMarsh]

Interesting numbers. I wonder how the attach rates for disks compare for the different players, including PS3. I've heard that HD-DVD attach rates are pretty high.

[Chris D]

Jon, what do you mean by "attach rates"?

The numbers seems to be equalizing, but yes, HD-DVD is ahead. You can monitor the "DVD HD Wars" daily at Amazon.

[Nolan B]

Jon, what do you mean by "attach rates"?

The numbers seems to be equalizing, but yes, HD-DVD is ahead. You can monitor the "DVD HD Wars" daily at Amazon.

I understand attach rates to mean the average number of HD DVDs someone with a HD DVD player owns. The number was apx 8 back in Oct.

[JonMarsh]

They have estimated attach rates and a variety of other figures- of course, there are loons out there with attach rates in the 30's and 40's, too. And the quoted attach rate in October I think was only using sales for one quarter- which means an annual attach rate might look rather like my own- over 40 titles. Still a lot I'm looking forward to.

I'm looking at this a lot like SACD- I like and prefer "Hi Rez" content, and although even on this forum you see so many people talking about how SACD is dead, it has thousands of titles out, and more being released every month- my "attach rate" on my two SACD players would be my total titles divided by number of players, right? That's an attach rate around 150 disks, then. And I've got a list of disks to order that's constantly updated because of these new releases. Fortunately, on SACD they're releasing a lot of the kinds of music I want to hear.

We'll see how HD-DVD and BR go- when hybrid titles or hybrid players are out, I'll probably bite; for now, the cost/performance structure and lack of finalized specs have me only investing in HD-DVD, holding off on Blu Ray. I expect Blu Ray to do better than DVD-A, which is nowhere compared with SACD, but long term will both co-exist, just as multiple consoles and other media co-exist? Who knows? Maybe the Warner hybrid disks, if they can be done inexpensively enough, and Sony doesn't put up patent roadblocks, is the way to go.

[Nick M]

Vancouver - So there are currently 425,000 machines in homes capable of Blu-Ray, and 270,000 capable of HD-DVD? How does that make HD-DVD the sales champ?

Do they track number of actual discs sold? I think that would be a better method given the early stages we're in.

I don't own either, but I'm watching with great interest as things unfold. :T

[George Bellefontaine]

Do they track number of actual discs sold? I think that would be a better method given the early stages we're in.

You can get that here, Nicholas:

https://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

[Nolan B]

Vancouver - So there are currently 425,000 machines in homes capable of Blu-Ray, and 270,000 capable of HD-DVD? How does that make HD-DVD the sales champ?

Do they track number of actual discs sold? I think that would be a better method given the early stages we're in.

I don't own either, but I'm watching with great interest as things unfold. :T

I understand your point, and believe me so does sony. They, infact, used this as a major argurment to win studios. And why not?

What has unfolded (and I personally Believe) is just because someone who buys a PS3 has the ability to buy BD doesnt mean they will. Its much more real to compare the inerest in products that exlusively play HD content i.e. Someone with a 360 addon is much more likely to buy a HD movie then someoe with a PS3. It was a hope, not reality, that automatically most PS3 owners would catch onto buying BD. In reality it was a trojan horse that was empty.

You need to seperate the PS3 numbers from the stand alone player sales because PS3 owners in reality bought the PS3 for games. Not BD movies. Its not to say gamers dont buy movies, they do. Its to ask: does someone buy a PS3 for movies, for games or both? The reality is they buy one for games.

Proof? Samsung, Pionner, Sony and the addition of the 1.3 million PS3s shodl have by all accounts crushed the two machines made by Toshiba and the MS addon. They did not.If they did the market would see no need for a comdo player or comdo discs, and sites like thedvdwars would show HD DVD sales ahead 100% of the time.

http://www.thedvdwars.com

One a side note. I have been to all the retailers in my city that sell both formats, and I have been their often. I always ask what they are selling more of. The answer without hesitation has always been HD DVD.

[chrispy35]

I had read somewhere that one of the big problems Sony was facing was that their plan of recovering the loss on the PS3 by selling games was not turning out exactly as planned since a large % of PS3s buyers did not buy any games at the same time (i.e. bought it as a subsidized stand-alone BD player).

Chris P.

[Hdale85]

My thoughts are that people don't really like watching movies on game consoles. Its some what of a pain, If you don't have a remote you have to pull out the controller. And they are very noisy most of the time. I've heard the demo PS3 at the store and its pretty loud! This is why I think all those PS3 consoles are not going to be used to play BD disks. Maybe a portion of them but I really don't think they should count them all granted they are capable of playing the movies! As for the HD-DVD add on well of course they are all going to play the movies because thats the only thing the add on does for the console.

[Nolan B]

I had read somewhere that one of the big problems Sony was facing was that their plan of recovering the loss on the PS3 by selling games was not turning out exactly as planned since a large % of PS3s buyers did not buy any games at the same time (i.e. bought it as a subsidized stand-alone BD player).

Chris P.

This is a perfect example of a Sony press release "Its not that our PS3 games are selling because of few games, or poor games to choose from, its becuase everyone is buying PS3s for BD" --- Why not release the huge sales numbers. I would say with 1.3 million consoles and most bought for movies this war would be way over.

[Nick M]

I think it's too early to tell either way. As prices continue to plummet on HDTV LCD's, the demand on HD sources will increase and I think we will see more concrete indicators and less speculation.

[Chris D]

You need to seperate the PS3 numbers from the stand alone player sales because PS3 owners in reality bought the PS3 for games. Not BD movies.

Nope... I bought mine primarily as a BD player.

[Nolan B]

Nope... I bought mine primarily as a BD player.

No offense this with response, but when speaking about large numbers you need to be general. Sure there are acceptions to the rule but that doesnt mean the rule isnt true.

This is like saying people who bought the 360 since the launch of the addon did so to buy the addon. 1.5% of 360 owners bought addons to watch HD DVDs. I think its reasonable to assume the same percent bought the PS3 in order to watch BD.

Until numbers are printed to show different I just feel that is a more reasonable assumption.

[Chris D]

Well, we often don't see the whole picture. There's more than one of us that was considering getting into the HD disc world. You can pay $400 - $1200 or more for a standalone HD player, or you could buy either the X360 *or* PS3, both with HD capabilities for $499 - $599, and have a game player on top of it. Seems like a deal... that why myself and others bought them. The minority, sure, but we're out there, and not relegated to one specific camp or the other.