Joe 6-Pack And Focus Groups - What's The Point?

[David Meek]

At our Houston HT meet this last weekend, one of our more distinguished regular members - Mr. Bill Cushman, projector reviewer for Widescreen Review magazine - was commenting on various projector manufacturer's and responses they got from focus groups. One really bugged me (and Bill also, I believe) at the time and got me to pondering the whole purpose - and viability - of focus groups.

The comment that "got me" (I'm paraphrasing here) was to the effect that the focus groups preferred the images they saw with the blacks crushed together into a uniform color - no subtle shadings to give depth and substance to the image!!! Arghhhhh! :M Now, my question is this: Why have a focus group that is comprised of people that aren't in the target market window? Why have Joe 6-Pack or someone not at least educated enough to recognize an accurate image in a "focus group" when by most standards he won't own a projector or high-end display to begin with? You are skewing your results by aiming at an absolute lowest common denominator which will not be in the percentile that purchases your product! You are lowering your product capabilities to the point that your projected purchasers won't be interested in the product because it doesn't meet their expectations. I'm not being elitist here - my family comes from large East and Central Texas farming/ranching roots - I'm just trying to be rational and understand why skewed "focus groups" like this are so important to these companies....

rant off - for now

[George Bellefontaine]

Some of these so-called expert marketing survey companies employee kids with university marketing degrees and unfortunately the real world is far from the ideals presented in textbooks. Focus groups are useless if they are not made up of people keenely aware of the subject of the group. Obviously these marketing gurus don't yet realize this and what results is a shameless waste of time and money for the projector mfgrs. who contract their services.

[Andrew Pratt]

The problem also is that while they might prefer that sort of image they likely would never notice one way or the other in a real world environment (ie at home) so why lower your standards for a group that doesn't care. I don't mind buying a TV set with a setting that boosts contast and brightness to an unreasonable level as that's what sells on the sales floor...so long as there's a setting that isn't set that way or is at least easy to change. I'd rather see them all sold at a less harmfull setting but fact is Joe likes it boosted unnaturally

[H.T.C]

It is most likley that the intense picture they see on best buys,circuit city floors etc is what they believe to be accurate and so want to reproduce at home with not being told by sales people is that the increase in picture briteness is because of the floor lighting being too brite for a televison to display its proper levels or settings.

[Foxman]

It is most likley that the intense picture they see on best buys,circuit city floors etc is what they believe to be accurate and so want to reproduce at home with not being told by sales people is that the increase in picture briteness is because of the floor lighting being too brite for a televison to display its proper levels or settings.

Bingo. Joe six pack and countless thousands of other consumers are spending their hard earned money buying all this stuff without really knowing how to setup or calibrate any of it. I know of some people that never realized you needed to calibrate your CRT RPTV and werent happy with the picture.

Blame it on BB & Circuit, blame it on pop culture but you have to blame it on the consumer somewhat. Unfortunatly a lot of "sales" associates at major retailers really don't know their products. This has never been more true than with multichannel music. My guess is that maybe 10% of big retailers sales associates know what they are doing v/s probably 85% in a brick and morter.

Sorry, I just felt the need to overgenalize an entire industry.
:T

[Shane Martin]

Foxman is entirely accurate IMHO.

The point is that they are the majority of buyers out there(ignorant yes) but they are the vast majority of folks out there buying xyz product.

[CJ Paul]

I think I'm in agreement with Foxman and Shane... My guess would be that there is one major inaccuracy in your argument. J6P IS buying these products. The number of people buying a DVD player that even NOTICE that it has something like the CUE is such a small percentage. We as enthusiasts are NOT where the companies make the bulk of their money. On top of which, a lot of enthusiasts exhibit no brand loyalty at all. If you have 3 Sony products in your system, you are still going to research that new TV and buy the best bang for the buck for you. They'd rather have a customer that's going to blindly keep coming back.

If you dont think the enthusiast is the vocal minority in this type of issue, all you have to do is look at edge enhancment. There is NO reason to add edge enhancement to a DVD. It doesnt improve the picture on ANY set, and it makes it horrible on large, accurate TV's but the studios still add it to a majority of releases. Why? because the videophile is but a gnat buzzing in their ear compared to the swarming masses of regular consumers.

[Chris D]

I agree with most. Another dumbing down of the public. And Andrew, you said it right--why have focus groups of people that just don't care?

[David Meek]

Hmmm, maybe I need to clarify a bit.

My concern here is with front-projector and other high-end displays. J6P isn't going to walk into a dedicated A/V store and audition their lineup of over $8K projectors/displays. He/she is going to stumble into BestBuy and get the "finest purtiest brightest flat pitcher" that they can for their money. They'll take it back to their trailer and live happily ever after.

What I'm referring to is why manufacturers go to the trouble of forming focus groups for their high-end products and stock them with people that haven't a clue about what comprises a high-end-capable display and what the resulting image should look like. If these companies want a true read on their products, they - at the least - need to get responses from a group composed primarily of people that would be interested in the capabilities, and capable of, purchasing one of their displays/projectors. That's just smart use of demographics - otherwise, they're just whistling in the dark.

[CJ Paul]

David, I get what you are saying, I just disagree. J6P is not money dependant to me. Its just a state of knowledge in a particular hobby. Many of us are probably J6P when it comes to other products, like cars for examples. Many auto enthusiasts feel that ALL american cars ride too soft and are bummed that you cant get a midsize with a stick-shift. But who do you think is in the focus group when they determine the stiffness of the supsension? When I was in my local "hi-fi" store a few times back, several people came in to look at high end projectors $5k-$10k. I can tell you without hesitation that they were J6P. They were just J6P with a lot of money. HT was NOT they're hobby and the only difference between them and the guy getting his TV at Wal-Mart is the size of his paycheck. WE as enthusiasts ARE the minority.

[Shane Martin]

Cj,
Excellent post. J6p is state of mind.

[CJ Paul]

Thanks Shane. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I used to be on the other side of this fence. I still TOTALLY wish, like all of you I'm sure, that they would work with enthusiasts in the field when designing products, but I've learned over the years that frankly, we are not a companies best customers. We are picky, demanding, and unloyal. And, I dont mean that in a bad way, that's just the way it is.

[David Meek]

CJ, no arguments here. Just good discussion. :T We happen to have different opinions, that's all.

When I look at a company's high-end offerings, they are saying to me that "these are the best we can produce". What's the point of NOT getting informed opinions from the people that can judge their offerings with a semblance of knowledge? If you are going to offer up your finest for reactions, make the reactions valid within the framework of what the offering's capable of producing. Having someone that's not an experienced racing driver test drive an Indy car will get you lots of "wow" reactions, but it won't get you something you can use to better the car. In fact, it'll have the long-term effect of slowing or minimizing improvements as the manufacturers won't have valid comparative data to base modifications on. Same here, IMO.

[CJ Paul]

Good point David. Also, I meant to include, but forgot to, a counter to my own analogy. Because consumer electronics are usually inherently adjustable, its not like a car where if you make the suspension on a Buick as stiff as that of a Mazda Miata, people are going to be upset. You could have a consumer setting and a videophile setting. There is no reason why you have to have blacker than black and propper shadow detail totally outside the range of settings. If people want crushed blacks, they can select a setting. Its like those older RPTVs where you had to cut a wire to disable scan velocity modulation. Why not have a damned setting?

[Foxman]

I would add that I agree that it would be nice if these companies chose to use informed buyers for their focus groups, but I understand that by in large they don't and won't.

I liked the car analogy BTW.