New 'box' for my CD collection

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  • cochinada
    Senior Member
    • May 2014
    • 658

    New 'box' for my CD collection

    Hello,

    After much pondering and for the reasons detailed in this other thread I've decided to take the digital route, that is to say, to rip my entire CD collection (>4000).

    Basically for those who have not follow my quest for the best sound I can achieve in my living room, it all started because of improving the acoustics. For that purpose I will need to gain some space getting rid of some furniture where all my CD's are kept. So, it's a 2 in 1 situation as at the same time I will gain much easier accessibility to my music library.

    For now my top priority is just music. I have an old Oppo BDP-83 that does the job well for viewing movies. That doesn't mean in the future I won't be interested in ripping those as well but I have my job cut out already and I will think of that when and if the time comes.

    So, my requisites are:

    - silent box.
    - stylish box and not too big.
    - enough capacity. Aiming for 3TB just to be on the safe side and allow room for grow.
    - redundancy for safe data keeping (RAID 1).
    - no wifi (I don't like radiations).
    - remote via IR and using my TV screen as monitor and GUI (nice and appealing interface is a must).
    - lean and quick OS.

    I have already chosen a DAC so the final solution must not include this.

    I've been reading and investigating this world and already found some things...

    -OS-

    a) OpenELEC is designed from scratch for HTPC purposes.
    b) Windows Server 2012 R2 would also be a possibility if id didn't cost an arm and a leg. As such is out.
    c) Windows 7 (latter versions are also out) is cluttered with a lot of stuff that is not needed for a HTPC and will just get in the way.

    I'm inclined for OpenELEC.

    -GUI-

    I've learned that for OpenELEC the obvious choice is to use Kodi but I guess it supports other interfaces as well...

    -Storage-

    NAS or external HDD (2) in a box? I don't need multi access but a home NAS solution looks more elegant and powerful. My major concern is that it has to be silent.
    I've also learned that Western Digital has SATA disks designed for NAS that are quieter as they rotate in slower speeds. Two of those with 3TB could suit me.
    Than it remains the issue of backing up the NAS itself. I would need another external 3TB disk or could I store this data in some personal cloud free of charge? I'm only familiar with Google Drive but it has only 15GB.

    I found this comparison between several NAS models.

    -Ripping and organizing-

    I'm thinking about dividing my music genders in three main categories (folders):

    - classical music.
    - medieval music.
    - 'other' music (I lack the word for it but it basically encompasses all kind of music, from Pop to Rock, to Gothic to New Age, you name it. Or I could also create sub folders inside).

    I'm using EAC to rip each CD in multiple FLAC tracks with this naming convention: '<track#> <song title>.flac'.
    I'm also fetching the artwork and storing all the data in a folder named '<artist>' and sub folder '<CD title>'.

    So, at this stage I already have several different '<artist>' folders, each with one or more '<CD title>' sub folders.

    When I start ripping classical music it all will be much more complicated as here we have to consider the composer, the interpreter/soloist and/or conductor, orchestra and so on.

    For all of you who have done this before, what is the best way to organize such a collection? Whatever interface I chose, whether is Kodi or another, it has to work flawlessly.


    -Conclusion-

    I'm talking here basically about building a custom 'box' or HTPC (with focus on the audio for now but keeping some flexibility for the future incorporation of movies) plus NAS or other storage solution as I think it is much more affordable than go for a music player already build.

    What do you say, suggest, recommend?
    Last edited by cochinada; 30 December 2015, 09:43 Wednesday.
    Joaquim

    DIY 4 way speakers.
    DIY subwoofers.
    Zaph ZD3C.
  • Kal Rubinson
    Super Senior Member
    • Mar 2006
    • 2109

    #2
    Just comments.
    1. EAC is great but, imho, dbPowerAmp is easier and better with customizable file labeling.
    2. The best metadata editor for classical is MusiCHI.
    3. I do not know KODI (although I have heard about it) but find that JRiver is almost infinitely configurable.
    4. Cloud backup is constrained by the bulk of the data and I find that adding another storage device, not necessarily a NAS, is more efficient.
    5. I prefer to keep my NAS remote because of noise and use a small silent PC for a local controller/streamer.
    Kal Rubinson
    _______________________________
    "Music in the Round"
    Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
    http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

    Comment

    • cochinada
      Senior Member
      • May 2014
      • 658

      #3
      Thank you for your comments. It's really what I need right now. For instance I didn't know about MusiCHI

      Yes, EAC is a little complicated for my taste but it's also possible to customize file labeling. At the moment I'm struggling because for whatever reason it is not converting to FLAC although I chose 'Compressed' and have FLAC configured...
      Joaquim

      DIY 4 way speakers.
      DIY subwoofers.
      Zaph ZD3C.

      Comment

      • TEK
        Super Senior Member
        • Oct 2002
        • 1670

        #4
        Hi

        Let's look at this a bit.

        In general CD's take very little space. When you start talking about Movies that a whole different ballgame, especially when we start talking blue-ray movies.
        One thing you really should consider is that time is working for you. Disk space is getting cheaper and cheaper. Just a few years ago 1TB disk was the largest you could get. Now you can get 8TB disks (I just checked). When I started with my first HTPC I had several 0.5TB disks. At one time I was up to 10 disks. As the time has moved on and I have needed more space I have been able to get a lot more space with fewer disks.
        What does this mean for you? That you only should by as mutch disk space as you know you need right now. You should also expand your disk place as late as possible.

        Your CD-collection is 4000 CD's. You can estimate an avarage about 500MB/0.5GB pr CD.
        With 4000 CD's that sums up to about 2TB. That not that much. You can actually get that on a SSD drive these days (but a 2TB SSD disk is quite expensive). If you really want a silent PC that takes little space, that is an option to evaluate. Or you could just by a regular 3.5" disk (Western Digital/WD is used a lot for HTPC's). A silent 3.5" disk mounted in a not very small case and placed inside a rack will probably not bother you soundwise. This is actually mutch more critical when the PC sit on top of your work desk.
        For you operation system and program files you should have a separate SSD disk. 100GB or so will be more than enough.

        When considering operation system I think you should think about future usage. I think you can be safe to assume that you will use the HTPC for both movie streaming (for example Netflix) as well as music (for example Tidal). I prefer Windows as the opsys as that gives good driver support and a wide range for hardware choises. If you go for something else, be sure that you select proven hardware! JRiver for music playback is a good choise.

        When it comes to the actual hardware you have to deside what direction you want to go in.
        Buy complete or build yourself? Passive cooling (very limiting and quite expensive - but very cool cases), active air-cooling or water cooling.
        Water cooling is mostly for gaming and huge need for getting heat away, and still causes the use of fan's so I do not think that is for you.

        I would recommend that you start out by figuring out what case you want to use. That is the factor that will affect a lot of other choises.

        You should consider the following:
        - Are you willing to pay A LOT extra for a fanless PC?
        - How important is size?
        - How important is look? Will it be visible? Will it be hidden?
        - What form factor do you want? Cube, stereo look, tiny box, huge box?
        - Do you plan to add other stuff in it? You should be especially aware of cards that is hard to get in slim sizes, as some high-end sound card, as that would rule out tiny and slim cases.
        - Do you require 4K (will add to complexity)

        Me, I have selected to stay with a huge case in my main home theater room so that I can put in it whatever I want. I have also a NAS server in a different room where all data is stored.
        For the living room we have a tiny box (see my thread about the In-Kahn-Neatos, I added a picture of it there).

        -TEK
        -TEK


        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

        Comment

        • cochinada
          Senior Member
          • May 2014
          • 658

          #5
          OK right now I need about 2TB but since some space is inevitably wasted, to be on the safe side and also to give margin for grow, I will go for 3TB. that means 2 x 3TB in a RAID 1 configuration. I prefer to have these outside of my 'HTPC' so a NAS is the most obvious choice. I also don't thing there is much to gain for using an SSD for storage, though for the OS is a must.

          I've not chosen the box yet nor decided exactly where to put the thing but it will not be hidden for sure and I rather prefer a small to medium box. First of all I have to like it and it cannot look like a regular PC but more like another piece of hifi equipment. Anyway, I have no problem in building my own box. As a matter of fact all my PC's were built by me. This guy here has some choices and most of them are silent or near silent (so he says) for a very reasonable price.

          Like I said, at least for now, I'm not planning adding other stuff but it would be nice to have the possibility to upgrade or expand without throwing pieces away. Is enough that I have to throw some furniture...

          For now I have a basic and urgent question:

          I'm ripping each CD as...

          <track#> - <artist> - <title album> - <title song>.flac

          and storing it on '<artist>' folder and '<title album>' subfolder. Is this any help or overkill?
          Joaquim

          DIY 4 way speakers.
          DIY subwoofers.
          Zaph ZD3C.

          Comment

          • TEK
            Super Senior Member
            • Oct 2002
            • 1670

            #6
            It's mutch information and you might actually run into problems with the filename + the patch beeing to long...
            So you might evalute skipping the artist. Also if the player shows that information it will be a lot to read. Probably good enought having the title album in front.

            But I would go <artist> - <title album> - <track #> <title song>.flac
            That way, it will be possible to have them in one folder and still make sence out of it. With track number first you will have no way to find/group stuff if you should "loose" your folder structure.
            And the only reason to actually include all that extra info is that...
            -TEK


            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

            Comment

            • ---k---
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Nov 2005
              • 5202

              #7
              I mentioned it in your other thread. But a dedicated Vortex box http://vortexbox.org/ is worth looking into. I like mine. Very flexible and easy to use once set up. Ripping a large collection couldn't be easier. You just drop the CD in and it does rips to FLAC and MP3 at the sametime and ejects when done. You just stick the next CD in with zero interface.
              - Ryan

              CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

              Comment

              • cochinada
                Senior Member
                • May 2014
                • 658

                #8
                Originally posted by TEK
                It's mutch information and you might actually run into problems with the filename + the patch beeing to long...
                So you might evalute skipping the artist. Also if the player shows that information it will be a lot to read. Probably good enought having the title album in front.

                But I would go <artist> - <title album> - <track #> <title song>.flac
                That way, it will be possible to have them in one folder and still make sence out of it. With track number first you will have no way to find/group stuff if you should "loose" your folder structure.
                And the only reason to actually include all that extra info is that...
                Yes, you have a point. Actually I would like to understand what is the best way of ripping the CD's for latter importing them to Kodi for instance. Skipping the folder structure and storing everything at the same place or keeping the structure and using just <track#> and <song title> for instance?

                Originally posted by ---k---
                I mentioned it in your other thread. But a dedicated Vortex box http://vortexbox.org/ is worth looking into. I like mine. Very flexible and easy to use once set up. Ripping a large collection couldn't be easier. You just drop the CD in and it does rips to FLAC and MP3 at the sametime and ejects when done. You just stick the next CD in with zero interface.
                I somehow missed that. Very interesting but I would need to have a dedicated PC just for that purpose, right?
                Joaquim

                DIY 4 way speakers.
                DIY subwoofers.
                Zaph ZD3C.

                Comment

                • TEK
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 1670

                  #9
                  Just rip it to the folder structure as you are planning. Most tools will expect that structure and handle it just fine.
                  Regarding ripping; I think almost any regular computer can be set up to rip cd's automatic when you insert a cd.
                  -TEK


                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                  Comment

                  • cochinada
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2014
                    • 658

                    #10
                    OK. Meanwhile I tried MusicBrainz Picard to see how it would recognize a CD but it didn't. It says Listen to port 8000 but nothing happens. Could it be that I have firewall issues?

                    About NAS, I have the following candidates:

                    - Synology DS215j
                    - Synology DiskStation DS214
                    - QNAP TS-251
                    - Western Digital My Cloud Mirror 6TB

                    According to the comparison I mentioned in post#1, the QNAP is the best but I was disappointed to hear about the flimsy box. So, I'm considering the second best (DS214) or is it more than enough to go with the WD or even the DS215j that as far as I saw just lacks the hot-swappable feature from his big brother?
                    Joaquim

                    DIY 4 way speakers.
                    DIY subwoofers.
                    Zaph ZD3C.

                    Comment

                    • BobEllis
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 1609

                      #11
                      All your PCs implies that you may have a wired connection into another room. (my son just moved into an apartment wired for gigabit connections in every room) That would free up the noise level constraint.

                      Not to beat the JRiver drum too much, but you can try it for free before you buy. You don't need to divide up your rips into genre folders, JRiver will tag them for you. It also allows tagging multiple genres by album and song, so it you want to categorize Hootie and the Blowfish as both Country and Rock you can do it, and find them when searching either genre. It has great cataloging capability, far more than I've ever seen a need to use. Available in Windows, Mac and Linux versions. Try it, you'll probably like it. Easy rips, automatically tagged via online databases and you can override the tags and cover art should you desire. It also will take care of your movie watching when you get to ripping that.

                      Have you considered using your Oppo as the streamer and feeding it's SPDIF to your DAC?

                      Comment

                      • cochinada
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 658

                        #12
                        Originally posted by BobEllis
                        All your PCs implies that you may have a wired connection into another room. (my son just moved into an apartment wired for gigabit connections in every room) That would free up the noise level constraint.
                        That would be nice for one side but the PC must be on sight because I need to control it through an IR remote. Now the NAS could be far away but the WD Red HDD should be quiet enough I hope...

                        Originally posted by BobEllis
                        Not to beat the JRiver drum too much, but you can try it for free before you buy. You don't need to divide up your rips into genre folders, JRiver will tag them for you. It also allows tagging multiple genres by album and song, so it you want to categorize Hootie and the Blowfish as both Country and Rock you can do it, and find them when searching either genre. It has great cataloging capability, far more than I've ever seen a need to use. Available in Windows, Mac and Linux versions. Try it, you'll probably like it. Easy rips, automatically tagged via online databases and you can override the tags and cover art should you desire. It also will take care of your movie watching when you get to ripping that.
                        It sounds perfect but how much? The thing that seduces me on Kodi is that is the perfect 'marriage' with OpenELEC. I'm also fed up with Windows and like the idea of an OS developed for HTPC only and stripped of everything redundant, including drives.

                        Originally posted by BobEllis
                        Have you considered using your Oppo as the streamer and feeding it's SPDIF to your DAC?
                        What do you mean? Streamer for what? As my 'HTPC'? I know it has an Ethernet LAN but is it Gigabit? And what about JRiver and/or Kodi for GUI?

                        EDIT: No chance with my BDP-83. Other lossless formats like FLAC, WMA Lossless, MLP, etc, are not supported. OPPO is aware of the need, but support for this must come from the decoder chip maker.
                        Joaquim

                        DIY 4 way speakers.
                        DIY subwoofers.
                        Zaph ZD3C.

                        Comment

                        • cochinada
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2014
                          • 658

                          #13
                          Originally posted by BobEllis
                          All your PCs implies that you may have a wired connection into another room. (my son just moved into an apartment wired for gigabit connections in every room) That would free up the noise level constraint.
                          That would be nice for one side but the PC must be on sight because I need to control it through an IR remote. Now the NAS could be far away but the WD Red HDD should be quiet enough I hope...

                          Originally posted by BobEllis
                          Not to beat the JRiver drum too much, but you can try it for free before you buy. You don't need to divide up your rips into genre folders, JRiver will tag them for you. It also allows tagging multiple genres by album and song, so it you want to categorize Hootie and the Blowfish as both Country and Rock you can do it, and find them when searching either genre. It has great cataloging capability, far more than I've ever seen a need to use. Available in Windows, Mac and Linux versions. Try it, you'll probably like it. Easy rips, automatically tagged via online databases and you can override the tags and cover art should you desire. It also will take care of your movie watching when you get to ripping that.
                          It sounds perfect but Kodi is freeware. How does one stand against each other? The thing that seduces me on Kodi is that is the perfect 'marriage' with OpenELEC. I'm also fed up with Windows and like the idea of an OS developed for HTPC only and stripped of everything redundant, including drives.

                          Originally posted by BobEllis
                          Have you considered using your Oppo as the streamer and feeding it's SPDIF to your DAC?
                          What do you mean? Streamer for what? As my 'HTPC'? I know it has an Ethernet LAN but is it Gigabit? And what about JRiver and/or Kodi for GUI?
                          Joaquim

                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                          DIY subwoofers.
                          Zaph ZD3C.

                          Comment

                          • TEK
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 1670

                            #14
                            That would be nice for one side but the PC must be on sight because I need to control it through an IR remote. Now the NAS could be far away but the WD Red HDD should be quiet enough I hope...
                            I would recommend getting an harmony ultimate universal rf based remote.
                            (You could of course just get an ir-extender, but the harmony ultimate is the first remote that really jist works for me. Cost a shitload, but it is worth it...
                            -TEK


                            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                            Comment

                            • BobEllis
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Dec 2005
                              • 1609

                              #15
                              Originally posted by cochinada
                              What do you mean? Streamer for what? As my 'HTPC'? I know it has an Ethernet LAN but is it Gigabit? And what about JRiver and/or Kodi for GUI?
                              I'm not sure that your BDP-83 will act as a DLNA Server, I couldn't find the term in the manual, but if it does, it would be an HTPC replacement. I was considering an HTPC build, but as a less advanced computer builder, the BDP-103 did everything I wanted from an HTPC for less than an HTPC build was likely to cost, not counting the learning curve getting a PC to work.

                              I think I paid $30 for a JRiver license with small upgrade charges although the original purchase still works fine. What I like best about it is the wifi control via phone, but a PC in the room can control it or it can be your interface if you build it into an HTPC. It has several nice file browser modes, and displays can be customized and various skins are available. You can also use it to drive a multichannel sound card as an active crossover. Not quite as easy as miniDSP, but close. I don't know Kodi. I tried JRiver and was happy enough to stop looking and buy it.

                              BTW, you don't need gigabit ethernet to stream, even BluRay rips. UHD may require it, though. The current Oppo players have a 100M port. The highest data rate I've seen on a movie has been upper 30s (rapidly changing scene, DTS MA 7.1 audio) most of the time the data rate is in the 20s. The only glitch I've had streaming is if I had too much else going on with the cable company's router. I bought a Netgear NightHawk router that has plenty of bandwidth to handle anything my household can throw at (12 devices with most on wifi) it which connects to the cable company's modem/router. My "server" is also my main PC. It sometimes hiccups streaming HD movies if I've been editing photographs (I guess Lightroom and Photoshop don't release resources when they close) With a dedicated box you shouldn't have that issue.

                              I second TEK's Harmony remote suggestion. I have an older model, which also just works great. It makes it easy for my girlfriend to do what she wants with the system because it is activity based. Just hit a button to watch TV, another for BluRay, another to listen to Pandora, etc. and the remote turns on the right pieces and lines it up. Controls change to appropriate items for the current activity. The physical buttons are getting tired after many years, so I will be upgrading shortly.

                              Comment

                              • knowledgebass
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2013
                                • 159

                                #16
                                Have you seen the Intel NUC PCs? Small, powerful and take up little room. You would require external drives (USB or NAS) to obtain your storage requirements short of forking out big bucks for a large SSD. When looking at storage, consider flexibility so that you can rip your video too (doesn't necessarily need to be the same media or file system but video will take significantly more space per disc, so flexibility could become important).

                                When considering RAID, consider your level of knowledge and time to learn if not already familiar. Also consider that redundancy is not the same as having a backup. I recommend home users focus first on having a backup of her/his data and then focus on redundancy if she/he feel the expense relative to a reduction of potential downtime given by RAID is worth it. Redundancy is the benefit of RAID (i.e. little downtime), which is not the same as having a backup (slightly more downtime, less complexity and you don't loose data under more scenarios). Make sure you understand this before you suffer a significant data loss.

                                If you must go RAID consider the Linux software based mdman, ZFS, or btrfs (the last two are actually filesystems that can implement RAID). The benefit of software RAID is better flexibility in replacing drives, and increasing capacity of the RAID array. Yes it's slower than hardware solutions, but for audio and video data rates it's more than enough.

                                RAID or no, using a UPS (uninteruptible power supply) is a good idea too.

                                Comment

                                • cochinada
                                  Senior Member
                                  • May 2014
                                  • 658

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                  Have you seen the Intel NUC PCs? Small, powerful and take up little room.
                                  At a first glance I don't fancy the boxes so much but I will explore it better.

                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                  You would require external drives (USB or NAS) to obtain your storage requirements short of forking out big bucks for a large SSD. When looking at storage, consider flexibility so that you can rip your video too (doesn't necessarily need to be the same media or file system but video will take significantly more space per disc, so flexibility could become important).

                                  When considering RAID, consider your level of knowledge and time to learn if not already familiar. Also consider that redundancy is not the same as having a backup. I recommend home users focus first on having a backup of her/his data and then focus on redundancy if she/he feel the expense relative to a reduction of potential downtime given by RAID is worth it. Redundancy is the benefit of RAID (i.e. little downtime), which is not the same as having a backup (slightly more downtime, less complexity and you don't loose data under more scenarios). Make sure you understand this before you suffer a significant data loss.
                                  You make a good point. I actually think I can let go of RAID and focus on backing up. I really don't mind much about downtime if one of the discs break.
                                  So, in this case I reckon it doesn't make much sense going with a NAS as I also won't need multi access, so what do you guys recommend? It needs to be able to grow in space and of course be silent...

                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                  RAID or no, using a UPS (uninteruptible power supply) is a good idea too.
                                  Hmmmm... I had one of those ages ago and was not pleased. It was expensive, bulky and had a limited life span.

                                  I've been incredibly busy ripping CD's so I haven't had much time for coming here but I'm fast approaching a stage where I really need to define what kind of storage I'm going to use and make a backup. I've already ripped about 1000 CD's...
                                  Joaquim

                                  DIY 4 way speakers.
                                  DIY subwoofers.
                                  Zaph ZD3C.

                                  Comment

                                  • TEK
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2002
                                    • 1670

                                    #18
                                    For a home pc serving a couple of persons I don't think that neither raid or ups is neede - kindof overkill As I see it.
                                    However, some kind of backupsolution might be nice.
                                    Either something in the cload or just get a extra 3-5TB drive, connect it once each quarter and then store it at an external location (not in your house). Be sure to include photos and other really inreplacable stuff.
                                    -TEK


                                    Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                    Comment

                                    • cochinada
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2014
                                      • 658

                                      #19
                                      The (free) cloud isn't big enough and I'm not willing to pay a fortune each month for storage keeping. :nono:

                                      The question with storage is that aside from NAS I only know of external USB disks with the respective box. How would that work? I would have only one big enough for expanding my collection in the future? This is not very realistic. Or would I have more than one box connected to a different USB port maybe? But this would require more than one USB port which is also not very flexible...
                                      Joaquim

                                      DIY 4 way speakers.
                                      DIY subwoofers.
                                      Zaph ZD3C.

                                      Comment

                                      • TEK
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2002
                                        • 1670

                                        #20
                                        You have to keep your usage in mind. First, you have less than 3tb of music.
                                        Storage place for music is not a problem. Start talking about movies in hd, 4k and beond and we have a different situation.

                                        There are a couple of quite important facts to take into consideration here:
                                        1) your old cd collection will not change after beeing ripped
                                        2) connection standards and cables change over time
                                        3) disk capacity is sky rocketing and the cost pr gb drops equally fast (and that again affects point 2)

                                        This is what I would do:
                                        - rip all cd's
                                        Consider if backing them up is all that important or if it would be good enough to rip them again.

                                        If you conclude that you need backup:
                                        - buy a cheap disk that is just large enough to hold the whole collection
                                        - open the pc box and connect that disk directly using sata to the motherboard
                                        - remove that disk and store it at an external location

                                        Set up some cload solution to back up any new stuff added to your computer.
                                        When (if) you run out of free cloud space (and still do not want to pay), either buy a new cheap disk large enough to store everything and throw the old one, or by one that will hold only the new stuff, mount it in the pc and backup again.
                                        Store that disk on a safe external location.

                                        (Remember that it will likely be several years before you beed a new backup disk, and then disk will be even cheeper pr gb).

                                        Doing this for music should be no problem. For movies the needed space and number of disks is far larger so that is a different situation.
                                        I have selected to not back up my movie and music collection. Most music and movies are available trough online services and that will continue to grow in both quality and content.
                                        From my point of view is a model where millions and billions of users are supposed to have their own local copy of content a outdated and dying solution model. Why should I have all this bother when somone can deliver all I could evee have myself and so much, much more without me having to worry about backup, storage space, sound format and all that?
                                        Soon... just wait and see...
                                        -TEK


                                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                        Comment

                                        • cochinada
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2014
                                          • 658

                                          #21
                                          Ok, to make things simpler I'll forget about the movies for the time being. After all I will keep my Oppo and I'll have plenty of physical room to store the DVD's/blu-ray's I have and some.

                                          So, excluding the NAS what you're suggesting is to just buy an internal HDD of 3TB (plus another one as a backup is definitely a must) or is it better to have it connected externally by USB?

                                          One question: is a Western Digital Green silent enough? I learned they are being replaced by the blue family...
                                          Joaquim

                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                          Comment

                                          • TEK
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Oct 2002
                                            • 1670

                                            #22
                                            Main disk to be used on a day to day basic may be put in the HTPC or in a PC in another room or in a NAS. If I we're to by a disk now I would probably go for 3, 4 or 5 GB.
                                            I do not like USB or firewire disks because when I have tested them they are very slow to copy to/from and they are more expensive. So I would have got a internal standard 3.5HD to mount inside a PC or NAS. But I do not know for sure. Maybe the new USB 3.0 standard is extermely fast (have not chekced).

                                            Regarding the backup - you will probably use it very seldom (if you follow the method I suggested). So I would have got a cheep one and mounted it into a PC/NAS while doing the backup and then disconnected it again and put it away (remember external location). If that seems unpractical you can by a USB disk or some other backup drive. There are a lot of them. Cost a bit more but comes with the convinient of easy (and slow) connections.

                                            Western Digital Green is, if I recall correctly, the recommended home theater harddisk. I have several of them - working nice. But I have most of them on the server room, not in the HTPC, so I cant be to sure about noice - but I doubth it will be a problem. In any way is it one of the less noicy traditional harddrives.
                                            I do not know anything about the blue serie.

                                            For the backup disk noice does of course not matter.
                                            -TEK


                                            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                            Comment

                                            • cochinada
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2014
                                              • 658

                                              #23
                                              USB 3.0 is capable of 5 Gbit/s whereas SATA 600 is a little more fast at 6 Gbit/s.

                                              Originally posted by TEK
                                              ...Western Digital Green is, if I recall correctly, the recommended home theater harddisk. I have several of them - working nice. But I have most of them on the server room, not in the HTPC, so I cant be to sure about noice - but I doubth it will be a problem.
                                              Can you describe a bit more your server room? What do you have and how do you connect it?

                                              Just ordered a WD Passport Ultra 2.5" 3TB USB 3.0. That settles the matter of the backup and will enable me to backup also the sensible information on my desktop PC as well. Does anybody know if OpenELEC can recognize this external drive or is it just windows compatible?
                                              Last edited by cochinada; 06 January 2016, 06:40 Wednesday.
                                              Joaquim

                                              DIY 4 way speakers.
                                              DIY subwoofers.
                                              Zaph ZD3C.

                                              Comment

                                              • knowledgebass
                                                Senior Member
                                                • May 2013
                                                • 159

                                                #24
                                                I think TEK and I have been more or less are in the same page with our advice.

                                                For backups I use a 5.25" hot swap bay for 3.5" drives and rotate them out (probably not as often as I should...). I've been getting the 3TB WD Red drives most recently (I believe these don't spin down so will have a constant sound so may not be a good fit for your room). I backup personal files, family photos and also music, because to me the small cost of backup space is worth not needing to go back to my CDs unless absolutely necessary. Use whatever is convenient cheap. Sounds like you've gone with a USB interface. Nothing wrong with that.

                                                You should consider an SSD to boot the system from. Your big disk can be left for media and allowed to spin down (and therefore be silent when not accessing music on the drive). A 512 GB SSD would be plenty large and would allow you to rip and re-encode video much faster and probably store all your photos and personal files, email etc. once ripping is done (do the rip and encode on the SSD and transfer to spinning drive after would be faster than encoding to spinning drive). 256 GB is likely large enough if you need to save a little money. I could run my Linux server on 128 GB comfortably but that is probably not enough of you ever want to move to Windows from OpenELEC. Samsung EVO 850 are plenty fast and have a 5 year warranty.

                                                I would say a UPS is absolutely necessary if you have RAID. It's less necessary if you're not using RAID and not frequently writing large files (e.g. recording video, transferring files). I still think they are a good idea to have one on the system (PC or NAS) that stores most of your data to prevent data loss. That said, I know more people who use nothing than people who do.

                                                If your goal is a small system then you'll probably need to add a NAS to get enough disk space for your video. You can buy 4 bay units and add disks as you need to. Start with the audio disk inside your small HTPC box and add the NAS if you find the drive too loud or when you're ready to start ripping the video.

                                                Comment

                                                • cochinada
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • May 2014
                                                  • 658

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                                  ... A 512 GB SSD would be plenty large and would allow you to rip and re-encode video much faster and probably store all your photos and personal files, email etc. once ripping is done (do the rip and encode on the SSD and transfer to spinning drive after would be faster than encoding to spinning drive). 256 GB is likely large enough if you need to save a little money. I could run my Linux server on 128 GB comfortably but that is probably not enough of you ever want to move to Windows from OpenELEC. Samsung EVO 850 are plenty fast and have a 5 year warranty.
                                                  I'm a little lost. What ripping and encoding is necessary for music already in FLAC? Are you talking about the way JRiver or Kodi or whatever, access the files and provide them to the external DAC? Is this some kind of bottleneck?

                                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                                  I would say a UPS is absolutely necessary if you have RAID. It's less necessary if you're not using RAID and not frequently writing large files (e.g. recording video, transferring files). I still think they are a good idea to have one on the system (PC or NAS) that stores most of your data to prevent data loss. That said, I know more people who use nothing than people who do.
                                                  No RAID for me, thank you very much.

                                                  Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                                  If your goal is a small system then you'll probably need to add a NAS to get enough disk space for your video. You can buy 4 bay units and add disks as you need to. Start with the audio disk inside your small HTPC box and add the NAS if you find the drive too loud or when you're ready to start ripping the video.
                                                  Sounds like a plan. :T
                                                  Joaquim

                                                  DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                  DIY subwoofers.
                                                  Zaph ZD3C.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • cochinada
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • May 2014
                                                    • 658

                                                    #26
                                                    For practical reasons I need a box with no more than 80mm of height.

                                                    This would do except for the fact that is too expensive and I would prefer in black.
                                                    It has to have space for a 3.5" HDD and I don't want any optical drive. It needs to be silent and because the space is very limited not need any space above greater than 10mm.
                                                    Do you know any that fulfills this?
                                                    Joaquim

                                                    DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                    DIY subwoofers.
                                                    Zaph ZD3C.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • TEK
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                      • 1670

                                                      #27
                                                      Can you describe a bit more your server room? What do you have and how do you connect it?
                                                      "Server room" sounded a bit more than it actually is.
                                                      In the lower part of the house we have a technical room where all water pipes, electrical closed, water heat thank, heatpump, ventilation and all that technical stuff is gathered. In this room I also have a router and network cables goes from this room and into some other parts of the house, for example the home theater room as well as my living room.
                                                      In this room I also have an old full sized atx PC (regular case) that I have extended with an extra disk controller. I currently have 9 or 10 disk drivers from 500GB (the oldest) to 3000GB in that PC. But now I will need a new disk controller to add any more disks.
                                                      But the next time I'm getting out of space I will probably buy a 8TB disk or something and then replace several of the oldest disks with the new larger disk.
                                                      The PC is connected to the rest of my house network by a GB connection. I'm running JRiver on this as a media server and connects to that media library from other PC (mainly livingroom and home theater) and have local playback.

                                                      The PC is just an ordinary ATX PC with a added disk controller and a cassie that have room for many disk drivers.
                                                      -TEK


                                                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                      Comment

                                                      • cochinada
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2014
                                                        • 658

                                                        #28
                                                        Boy, I didn't even know you could add an extra disk controller to a PC.

                                                        So, let's see if I got this right: you have the main server (ATX PC with a lot of disks) on the basement with JRiver installed and you have other PC's that access this one via GBit Ethernet. Is there such a thing as JRiver 'server' and 'client' concept or if not, how exactly do you access JRiver from these other PC's? Or do you have JRiver installed on each PC but if so, what's the purpose of having it also on the server?
                                                        Joaquim

                                                        DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                        DIY subwoofers.
                                                        Zaph ZD3C.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • cochinada
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • May 2014
                                                          • 658

                                                          #29
                                                          I've started the backup but am very disappointed with the speed of USB 3...

                                                          My Passport is connected to a USB 3 port and I cannot go above 34MB/s when according to wikipedia...

                                                          "The payload throughput is 4 Gbit/s[citation needed] (due to the overhead incurred by 8b/10b encoding), and the specification considers it reasonable to achieve around 3.2 Gbit/s (0.4 GB/s or 400 MB/s), which should increase with future hardware advances. "



                                                          I'm not doing anything else with the PC that would slow this transfer so I don't understand what's going wrong. Could it be because the source data is very fragmented? :scratchhead:

                                                          EDIT: I've killed the WD application that was monitoring something but although the speed increased to 55 MB/s is still far away from the 400 MB/s expected.



                                                          There are still these two applications from WD that might be slowing things down. What do you think? Can I get rid of all these applications?

                                                          Joaquim

                                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • knowledgebass
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • May 2013
                                                            • 159

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by cochinada
                                                            I'm a little lost. What ripping and encoding is necessary for music already in FLAC? Are you talking about the way JRiver or Kodi or whatever, access the files and provide them to the external DAC? Is this some kind of bottleneck?
                                                            This was meant to be in reference to video encoding. If you re-encode video as x264 video (using a program like Handbrake, assuming that's legal in your jurisdiction) the disk does become the bottleneck so doing the encode to SSD can speed this up compared to encoding to your archive on a spinning disk.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • TEK
                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                              • 1670

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by cochinada
                                                              Boy, I didn't even know you could add an extra disk controller to a PC.

                                                              So, let's see if I got this right: you have the main server (ATX PC with a lot of disks) on the basement with JRiver installed and you have other PC's that access this one via GBit Ethernet. Is there such a thing as JRiver 'server' and 'client' concept or if not, how exactly do you access JRiver from these other PC's? Or do you have JRiver installed on each PC but if so, what's the purpose of having it also on the server?
                                                              That is correct.
                                                              JRiver has a server and a client (for windows it's the same program, you just configure it).
                                                              My solution is that all files is located on a share, for ex. "Movies" and always accessed trough the share.
                                                              So, if I have
                                                              c:\movies\... on my computer named
                                                              "Server01" I would make a share and ask JRiver (on the server) to seatch for content on "//server01/movies/"
                                                              I then accessed that same JRiver library from my client pc. As the files is on the same location independent of the client it will always find the files.
                                                              There are other methods as well. I suggest tou check out JRivers forum if you would like to know more.

                                                              You could define any client as the server. And if you do not have several clients the best and easiest solution is to have everyting on the client. You would only need a server if tou have several clients. You would want a server so that indexing, marking what is viwed and so is done once.
                                                              -TEK


                                                              Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                              Comment

                                                              • cochinada
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • May 2014
                                                                • 658

                                                                #32
                                                                Thanks for the explanation. :T

                                                                I'm ready to take the plunge! These are my chosen components for the HTPC (for audio):

                                                                Case - Streacom FC5WS Silver
                                                                CPU - Intel Core i3 4130T 3.4GHz 3MB (TDP = 35W)
                                                                Motherboard - ASRock Z97M Pro4 Intel Z97 SK1150
                                                                Silent PSU - Streacom ST-NANO120 120W nanoPSU and AC/DC adapter block
                                                                Memory - Kingston DDR3 HyperX FURY Blue 4GB 1600MHz Cas10
                                                                System Boot Drive - Samsung Evo 850 SSD 2.5 SATA III 250GB
                                                                HDD storage - Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 64MB Sata III
                                                                IR Receiver - Streacom Flirc SE Universal Remote IR Receiver
                                                                OS - OpenELEC (I hope it works!) or in the worst case Windows 7 Professional.

                                                                What do you guys say? Speak now or never again .
                                                                Joaquim

                                                                DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                DIY subwoofers.
                                                                Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • TEK
                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                  • 1670

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Looks very good. Nice case btw!
                                                                  The parts to connect the processor to the cooling ribs, is that included with the case?
                                                                  Windows 7, not Windows 10?
                                                                  -TEK


                                                                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • cochinada
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • May 2014
                                                                    • 658

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Nice but expensive. Yes the pipes are included with the case. They have great customer service btw. :T

                                                                    Windows 7 will be my last OS from Microsoft. Windows 10 has serious privacy (or lack of it) issues. Do some research if you want...
                                                                    Joaquim

                                                                    DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                    DIY subwoofers.
                                                                    Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • cochinada
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • May 2014
                                                                      • 658

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Is it possible to shutdown the HTPC with the remote? How?
                                                                      Joaquim

                                                                      DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                      DIY subwoofers.
                                                                      Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • TEK
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                        • 1670

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by cochinada
                                                                        Is it possible to shutdown the HTPC with the remote? How?
                                                                        Ehh... pressing the off button on the remote usually does the trick.

                                                                        Sorry, not sure if I understood your question correctly. I'll try to be a bit more helpful.
                                                                        The IR receiver you have selected (looks good btw) is a learning IR receiver. That means that you can press a button on your remote (any of them) - typically when your receiver is in some kind of learning mode - the software that follows with the receiver will then let you map that remote signal to a action that your computer should carry out. One action will typically be "Standby" and will set your pc into standby mode.
                                                                        I write standby mode and not off on purpose. You bios will typically let your PC go into different levels of standby. When a PC is fully off it does not awake from anything but a hardware signal, as pressing the on button.
                                                                        However, for most standby states your pc can be awaken for example by a touch on the keyboard, by moving your mouse or by receiving a IR signal. This is usually configurable from the BIOS or from the opsys.
                                                                        Normally, "Off" is no problem. "On" might be a little more difficult as there are more factors to consider.

                                                                        The right place to have productive and helpful discussions about this is probably at the https://www.flirc.tv/ forum. There I assume you will get exact answers for the IR-receiver you have selected and the related software.
                                                                        -TEK


                                                                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • cochinada
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • May 2014
                                                                          • 658

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Nice to know there is also a forum for flirc. I'll surely use it :T

                                                                          Yes' my question was how to shutdown the HTPC wich after all is just a PC. For instance with Windows we have to go to the windows buttons and so on. So, I was wondering if it was possible to map or program a macro for doing just that.
                                                                          Joaquim

                                                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • TEK
                                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                            • 1670

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by cochinada
                                                                            Nice to know there is also a forum for flirc. I'll surely use it :T

                                                                            Yes' my question was how to shutdown the HTPC wich after all is just a PC. For instance with Windows we have to go to the windows buttons and so on. So, I was wondering if it was possible to map or program a macro for doing just that.
                                                                            "just a PC" ;-)
                                                                            I'm a windows guy, don't know that much about different Linix distros, so I will just comment on windows.

                                                                            The short answer is still "Yes".
                                                                            Not beeing all that familiar with your exact software, but most software of that kind have some commands built in - I would be surprised if it does not have both on and off as built in commands.
                                                                            - If not you can normally say that "this remote kode" should result in "starting this program with some arguments".

                                                                            If we say that it is not supported "out of the box" then you could program it so that the "Off" button on the remote runs a command. For example "shutdown /s"

                                                                            "with Windows we have to go to the windows buttons"
                                                                            To see all the available shutdown options in Windows 7 | 8, type cmd in start search and hit Enter. In the cmd window, type shutdown /? and hit Enter.

                                                                            You can also have a look at AutoHotKey.
                                                                            -TEK


                                                                            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • cochinada
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • May 2014
                                                                              • 658

                                                                              #39
                                                                              The case and the rest of the stuff I order from QuietPC has arrived but I'm still waiting for the motherboard, CPU and memory from another place.

                                                                              Has anyone ever tried these solutions?

                                                                              - daphile
                                                                              - Foobar with DarkOne-v4
                                                                              Joaquim

                                                                              DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                              DIY subwoofers.
                                                                              Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cochinada
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • May 2014
                                                                                • 658

                                                                                #40
                                                                                The case and the rest of the stuff I order from QuietPC has arrived but I'm still waiting for the motherboard, CPU and memory from another place.

                                                                                Has anyone ever tried these solutions?

                                                                                - daphile
                                                                                - Foobar with DarkOne-v4

                                                                                Foobar under Linux (not to mention OpenELEC) appears to be tricky to install which is a serious disadvantage:

                                                                                Joaquim

                                                                                DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • TEK
                                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                  • 1670

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by cochinada
                                                                                  The case and the rest of the stuff I order from QuietPC has arrived but I'm still waiting for the motherboard, CPU and memory from another place.

                                                                                  Has anyone ever tried these solutions?

                                                                                  - daphile
                                                                                  - Foobar with DarkOne-v4

                                                                                  Foobar under Linux (not to mention OpenELEC) appears to be tricky to install which is a serious disadvantage:

                                                                                  https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,54933.0.html
                                                                                  Sorry, with that setup you're on you're own ;-)
                                                                                  But please, tell me about your experience with the setup afterwards :-)
                                                                                  -TEK


                                                                                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Alaric
                                                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                                    • 4143

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    My experience with Foobar leads me to suggest you uninstall Media Player if you use it. They don't play nice together and will corrupt your music folder. It's a one or the other situation. At least that's how it was for me.
                                                                                    Lee

                                                                                    Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                                                                    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                                                                    Schiit Modi 3
                                                                                    Marantz CD5005
                                                                                    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • cochinada
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • May 2014
                                                                                      • 658

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Well first thing will be to install OpenELEC and see if there are no incompatible issues with the HW.

                                                                                      Then I guess the choice will be between Kodi, JRiver or Daphile. I don't like the perspective of having to battle with Foobar with DarkOne-v4 to make it work stable.

                                                                                      - About Kodi I must say I'm not very impressed with MusicBrainz Picard, because the first CD I tried he didn't recognize so, either I have a very rare CD or the knowledge database is very limited. Anyway I will give it a shot and because I already tagged the CD's myself perhaps this is not a big issue. Another disadvantage is that I think it doesn't do upsampling to 384 kbit/s so it has to rely on the DAC for that purpose.

                                                                                      - I have little information about JRiver but I hope it works well with Linux and does upsampling.

                                                                                      - Daphile seems very interesting as it is dedicated for audio only and optimized for that purpose. It's also freeware and should run smoothly with OpenELEC. It is not as well known as the others and I wonder why.
                                                                                      Joaquim

                                                                                      DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                      DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                      Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • knowledgebass
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • May 2013
                                                                                        • 159

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Daphile appears to be a pre-built Linux distribution that includes the Logitech Media Server packages. I'm fairly certain you could install LMS and squeezelite packages to OpenElec. Not sure Daphile includes a video player.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • cochinada
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • May 2014
                                                                                          • 658

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by knowledgebass
                                                                                          Daphile appears to be a pre-built Linux distribution that includes the Logitech Media Server packages. I'm fairly certain you could install LMS and squeezelite packages to OpenElec. Not sure Daphile includes a video player.
                                                                                          What are the Logitech Packages?

                                                                                          My HTPC is assembled now. I'm trying to install OpenELEC today and see how it goes. If everything looks good I will copy my ripped CD's and if I have the time I will try kodi as well.

                                                                                          I have a basic question that crossed my mind: I have an external My Passport from Western Digital that I used for backing up my desktop PC with Windows 7 The idea now is to connect this to the HTPC and copy the files to it. Does OpenElec (Linux after all) recognize this drive or...?
                                                                                          Joaquim

                                                                                          DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                                                          DIY subwoofers.
                                                                                          Zaph ZD3C.

                                                                                          Comment

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