Burning in a Vega...

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15261

    Burning in a Vega...

    I've got to do some different kinds of work now where I need to have a "known" and relatively portable music source on hand- after doing a lot of research, looking at reviews, both test data and listening comments, it seems to me that the Auralic Vega is the tool I need for now...

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    It's on burn-in for a while, the only convenient extra source I have is not what I would consider ideal, a Macbook running an OS beta, (El Capitan, the successor to Yosemite) but it will certainly be fine for just putting some hours on it. And you know what? Even through the Phiaton headphones I use mostly for gaming and computer stuff, it sounds pretty dang decent... at least with Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians, also with Howard Jones. Both robust and delicate, seems to get out of the way of the music nicely- will have to listen to a variety of recordings on it to see.

    I am using a Schitt external headphone amp with it (doesn't have that built in) but the Vega does have robust balanced outputs, and also AES-EBU inputs, so it hits my key check off list points.

    Of course, the measurements match the best of any other DAC Stereophile has tested at any price.... such as the Weiss DAC202, at double the price, and actually besting the dCS Debussy, at $12K.

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    Fig.9 Auralic Vega, spectrum with noise and spuriae of dithered 1kHz tone at –90dBFS with: 16-bit data (left channel cyan, right magenta), 24-bit data (left blue, right red) (20dB/vertical div.).
    Now, here we have a very interesting situation, in which the noise floor between 16 bit data and 24 bit data drops almost a full 30 dB. And a sine wave at -90 dB is reproduced excellently.


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    Time to get some hours on this, during the upcoming vacation break, and then give it a listen in the big system. (GF is going to Lost Wages next week to be with daughter while she has some surgery- I'll be in charge of the dog care, here... good thing Masha and I get along great!


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    Last edited by theSven; 08 June 2023, 13:44 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15261

    #2
    One thing I think I've learned today, is that USB C is NOT a good idea for audio... they splice a lot of different data possibilities together, and I think it may mess up asynchronous transmission. Anyway, playing a number of cuts, some came through OK, some had a bit of grit or grunge, and some plain out had drop outs and clicks.

    So, I switch to my 2014 MacBook Pro, and whoa.... this is more like what I was expecting. Lots of definition, and that up front sound that Auralic Vegas are known for. And that little headphone amp is working pretty well for only a C bill! :T
    the AudioWorx
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    Comment

    • jim1961
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2012
      • 357

      #3
      Originally posted by JonMarsh
      One thing I think I've learned today, is that USB C is NOT a good idea for audio... they splice a lot of different data possibilities together, and I think it may mess up asynchronous transmission. Anyway, playing a number of cuts, some came through OK, some had a bit of grit or grunge, and some plain out had drop outs and clicks.

      So, I switch to my 2014 MacBook Pro, and whoa.... this is more like what I was expecting. Lots of definition, and that up front sound that Auralic Vegas are known for. And that little headphone amp is working pretty well for only a C bill! :T
      What IS the best PC - DAC interface these days?
      Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

      Comment

      • Audio_ElF
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2007
        • 271

        #4
        John; what are you using for converting from USB-C to USB for the Vega?

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15261

          #5
          Originally posted by jim1961
          What IS the best PC - DAC interface these days?
          Well, the snarky or silly answer might be, "the one you have that works with the DAC you want to connect!" In other words, what's available is a pretty big factor, and this varies a lot depending on the type of computer and configuration. USB is pretty universal. USB music transmission can be adaptive or asynchronous. For the latter, the DAC's clock controls the signal rate, and as long as the PC follows and responds fast enough, that works pretty well.

          Many Macs have Firewire built in- some Sony's use to. Thunderbolt is common place on Macs, not so common place on PCs. Many PC's have optical, but they're about the worst interface as regards quality and jitter, as it's basically S/PDIF over infra red emitters and receivers, and the standard parts for that just aren't that consistent, unless you've got some fancy re-clocking going on at the receiving end. Some systems use sample rate converter chips for all inputs, and filter it that way. I've not usually been thrilled with how those sound (Benchmark DAC comes to mind, and yes, I used to own one). OTOH, the Berkeley Alpha DAC does that, converts everything to 192/24, but it uses a custom designed FPGA to do that, not a standard off the shelf chip.

          OTOH, I think maybe you were more concerned about interface quality, jitter, robustness, etc. Then matters get a bit more complicated, but it STILL comes down to what's available on the DAC you have and want to use.

          My personal preference, over the evaluation and use of a lot of DACs, and because I'm often using Pro or semi-pro type gear, is AES-EBU. You can get high quality plug in sound cards that will do that, but generally not for a laptop, though there are Thunderbolt to PCI-Express enclosures that would allow you to run one of those cards with a laptop.

          My favorite "when in doubt" solution is the Berkeley Audio Alpha USB interface; a painstakingly designed USB to AES/EBU box that goes to huge lengths to optimize the isolation and clocking for the AES/EBU output- quite a few reviewers say it's the best of it's type.

          A number of DAC's have been reviewed for which the consensus seemed to be that the USB input was not quite the match for the AES/EBU or S/PDIF inputs. Reportedly, it takes some smarts and more than a little effort to get really good results from the XMOS chip sets.

          Nice thing about USB with a Mac, is that the built in OS support goes to 192/24 with no additional drivers. OTOH, having used a variety of PC's and Macs as music servers, I think those days are behind me now, given the performance and consistency of the best music server/streamer boxes, like the NAD M50, the Aurdender's, or the Auralic Aires. In fact, I ordered an Auric Aires early this AM, after finishing my "status review" of available solutions versus the pitiful status of my bank account! The Aires get's good marks for functionality, small size, and excellent sonics. I ordered the more expensive version with a linear power supply.

          Next thing to wind up this new playback setup is to get a Par Metal chassis and combine an LLC SMPS for power with one of the Rubidium Clocks, and set that up with the Mutec clocking unit. The interesting thing will be if it gives the Auralic Vega any real benefit- the Vega has a pretty fancy-schmancy clock setup built in, including temperature stabilization, with three different precision/lock settings, which according to reviewers aren't just blowing air in your ear... and sources that have too much jitter won't even lock on the fine setting. But then, the front end re-clocking may help that mode work consistently and fully optimized- I just don't know. Time and a bunch of listening sessions should tell...
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          Comment

          • Norm
            Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 62

            #6
            John, the title of this thread threw me off at first.

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            I expect the Vega you got is a wiser purchase.
            Last edited by theSven; 08 June 2023, 13:48 Thursday. Reason: Update image location

            Comment

            • jim1961
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2012
              • 357

              #7
              Well Jon, you answered a lot there.

              But what I meant was, if you had a decent PC, and were looking at new DAC's, which interface works good on the PC end that also can be found on most DAC's? Perhaps you answered this already in your mention of AES-EBU.

              The other thing that comes to mind is that interface bandwidth doesn't tell the whole story when it comes to audio. This was brought to the forefront in your comment regarding USB-C.
              Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15261

                #8
                Originally posted by jim1961
                Well Jon, you answered a lot there.

                But what I meant was, if you had a decent PC, and were looking at new DAC's, which interface works good on the PC end that also can be found on most DAC's? Perhaps you answered this already in your mention of AES-EBU.

                The other thing that comes to mind is that interface bandwidth doesn't tell the whole story when it comes to audio. This was brought to the forefront in your comment regarding USB-C.
                I can say I've gotten very good results with Firewire at times- Metric Halo LIO-8. A lot of Macs have Firewire, as I mention.

                Unless you have a Lynx or some other specialty card, most PC's or Mac's don't have AES-EBU. Big balanced connector, you know...

                Several pro companies have new multi-channel audio interfaces out that work from Thunderbolt. I haven't tried them, I don't need to replace my Metric Halo, AND, it works just fine with a Thunderbolt to Firewire interface. BTW, the LIO-8/ULN-8 works just fine with an AES-EBU input, too, once you've configured it, but at that point it's just running in whatever DAW setup you've configured it with over Firewire... from your Mac... they have really good software supporting their various systems, but it all only runs on Macs.

                Working with an average PC or Mac, standard USB 2 or 3 is the way to go, I guess... if you've got buckets of money, you could go with the Alpha USB interface, but in most cases the best idea is to try to chose a DAC that has a decent USB interface built in, but has room to grow if you get a different front end, like a real network music server/streamer. The sub $2K market is quite busy, but frankly, I'm still very much a fan of the NAD M51 as the "floor" of serious digital. It's probably the best measuring one, often having a 10-15 dB lower real noise floor than other units in it's price range or much higher...

                One could get an M51 and combine it with an Alpha USB (BTDT), but seriously, I think for the same money you'd be better off with an Auralic Vega. the one without the wheels or the GM ICE motor! The M51 has a pretty good USB interface-

                Now, one other point to raise- in spite of many newer DACs having excellent (in a technical nerdy sense) digital volume controls, the reality is that whether they're 32 bit or 39 bit or 64 bit processing, they decimate data once it's fed into the DAC, if you're using more than 15-20 dB of attenuation. You're better off using a good analog preamp, which is a problem, because of that qualifier, "good". That means THD and noise, and volume control behavior, at the least, and of course, enough inputs to keep you happy.

                If money is no problem, there are a lot of solutions to chose from, but my desire for high levels of functionality, as many balanced inputs as possible, and super quite and low distortion, and oh, did I mention under $2K? means I haven't found anything else yet besides a Cambridge Audio 851e. Certainly open to suggestions before I buy another one...

                You know, it could be something with the interface chip, mode switching, or whatever, but regardless if you consider USB C asynchronous, there are some requirements for consistent audio delivery that I'm clearly having issues with this Macbook. OTOH, there may be immature drivers involved- I'm running pre-release OS X 10.11, El Capitan. So who knows...

                So, for most PCs, and many/most modern DAC's, it's USB. Be careful to pick one that the reviewers say has a good USB section- as I think I mentioned, many have reported "XYZ DAC is really wonderful, great slam, PRAT, and timing, and images to the next block, BUT, it's a bit soft and fuzzier on the USB input..." And these are units that go for well over $2K. Check out reviews; of course, check out Stereophile reviews, because they actually do hardware measurements with an AP.
                the AudioWorx
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                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15261

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Norm
                  John, the title of this thread threw me off at first.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	chevy-cosworth-vega-ad-6.jpg Views:	0 Size:	84.8 KB ID:	939335

                  I expect the Vega you got is a wiser purchase.


                  Hopefully so, but not cheaper! Just more reliable... :W I mean, back then, a 140HP 2L engine was a big deal... now I have a 1200CC V4 motorcycle with 170HP, and that with a lot of low end torque, (dangerously so- the factory detuned engine via ECU for the lower gears below 5,000 RPM to keep dummies from doing dummy things (of course, I've fixed that on mine) and tuned as a GT, not a rice rocket. Boy, do expectations ever change...

                  Oh, and my Honda Element utility SUV has 185 HP from a nice little smooth as glass 4.
                  Last edited by theSven; 08 June 2023, 13:49 Thursday. Reason: Update qutoe
                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
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                  SMJ
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                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
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                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15261

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Audio_ElF
                    John; what are you using for converting from USB-C to USB for the Vega?

                    Just the Apple interface cable/adapter. Works fine for data. At this point, with music, and El Capitan, not so fine- certainly not compared to my MacBook Pro, which is not specially modified for music, but does use a player that does a lot of those tricks automatically when you fire it up (several do these days)
                    the AudioWorx
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                    In Development...
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                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • Chris D
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Dec 2000
                      • 16877

                      #11
                      Yeah, the thread title had me thinking this:


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                      Last edited by theSven; 08 June 2023, 13:49 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
                      CHRIS

                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                      - Pleasantville

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15261

                        #12
                        Well, just think, that's what should be done with THOSE kinds of Vegas, just as what I'm doing with my kind of Vega is the right thing... I think!
                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
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                        In Development...
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                        Obi-Wan
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                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
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                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

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