Comments on my new Toshiba RPTV...

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  • Sonnie Parker
    • Jan 2002
    • 2858

    Comments on my new Toshiba RPTV...

    I finally got my new Toshiba 65HDX82 Widescreen RPTV set up. :yesnod:

    It was a long day as I had to work it by myself. Trying to get that styrofoam out from under that 280 pound set was not as easy as I thought it would be. :sos: Picking up one end with one hand (while on my old and weakened knees) and reaching under the set with the other hand to pry the foam out was a trick indeed. Eventually I got to where it would roll and roll it I did :-y right into the sweet spot forcing out my old Sony 61" RPTV to our daughters play room until we can get it sold (which may end up being a hard thing to take away from her.)

    Of course I immediately got all the equipment connected to the set. Then I started playing around with it as I was reading the manual, learning how it all worked was fairly easy even for a hillbilly like myself. Although another long drawn out chore awaited me as well..... programming my MX-700 remote. I thought I would never get it finished. :banghead: But I did!


    Next I decided to get out the AVIA DVD and get started with the basic calibrations that I felt like I could handle. After adjusting the settings as AVIA would suggest I found I wasn't too pleased with them and had to do some minor tweaking to my liking. Albeit I think a lot had to do with the fact I couldn't get all the light out of my room during the day. We watch more TV at night than any other time and I knew AVIA was on the money with my older Sony RPTV as I never messed with it once I set it per AVIA suggestions.

    My final Video settings ended up as follows:

    Contrast: 50
    Brightness: 45
    Sharpness: 15
    Color: 50
    Tint: +5
    SVM: Off
    Temp: Medium

    With our Dish Network I'll be using the Theaterwide Mode 1 until we get the new PVR921 that should be available sometime this year. :roll: I was pleasantly surprised that this stretch mode was so tolerable. I could hardly tell the difference between normal and stretch other than stretch was naturally larger. Images did not appear out of whack unless right on the very edge of the screen and then I had to look for it intentionally because my natural vision is to focus more on the center of the screen.

    However, I did notice that the quality of the picture in any mode is not always as good as it was with my Sony while watching Dish. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the Toshiba set or if it's just Dish (probably Dish) along with a standard definition signal input into a HD Monitor. Occasionally there are uniform horizontal lines noticeable during some scenes. I watched several segments of different shows on different channels tonight and at times I could see them plainly and they are annoying, but at other times I can't find them no matter how hard I look. They seem to come and go. When they are not present the picture is very good. This was not evident on DVD. I'm hoping it's just the fact that I don't have an HD tuner yet, but if they persist once I do get it then Toshiba will have to make a house call. In the mean time I will try to find some others who might have a Toshiba set with Dish Network and see if they've had similar problems.

    I did get a chance to watch one DVD (other than AVIA). I chose the 1:85.1 non-anamorphic Mission Impossible 2 and used the Theaterwide Mode 3. This basically zoomed the picture to fill the screen. After what I had read and learned about non-anamorphic DVD's I was not expecting anything that good. I was totally shocked. It was a fabulous picture. If anamorphic is better then I'm in for a real treat! :drool: It's probably a good thing that I'm no video expert as I'm sure I can't see flaws that others might. I'm tickled pink with the DVD performance and love the widescreen aspect. I can't wait to watch more DVD's.






    SONNIE

    Cedar Creek Cinema

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  • Kevin P
    Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 10808

    #2
    Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
    I finally got my new Toshiba 65HDX82 Widescreen RPTV set up. :yesnod:
    Sweet! :yeah:
    Picking up one end with one hand (while on my old and weakened knees) and reaching under the set with the other hand to pry the foam out was a trick indeed.
    I would have had someone help me, personally.
    Contrast: 50
    Brightness: 45
    Sharpness: 15
    Color: 50
    Tint: +5
    SVM: Off
    Temp: Medium
    I'd try to get that contrast a bit lower, say between 30-40. In a darker room you'll probably end up there anyway. Also, "low" or "warm" on the color temperature is usually closest to the 6500K that an ISF calibration will get you.

    Occasionally there are uniform horizontal lines noticeable during some scenes.
    This is called combing, and is caused by the line doubler. There should be an option in the Toshiba's menus for selecting "Film", "Video", and (maybe) "Auto". If it's set to Film you'll get combing on non-film sources (that is, sources that aren't interlaced with 3:2 pulldown). Auto should get rid of the lines, or Video. Just use Film when watching movies.

    Do you have a progressive scan DVD player?

    I did get a chance to watch one DVD (other than AVIA). I chose the 1:85.1 non-anamorphic Mission Impossible 2 and used the Theaterwide Mode 3.
    I would use Theaterwide 2 for non-anamorphic DVDs so you get the correct aspect ratio and no cropping.
    If anamorphic is better then I'm in for a real treat! :drool:
    What, you haven't put an anamorphic DVD on yet? Make sure to select Full mode on the TV when you do, so it's not zoomed out of whack.

    Sounds like you have a winner there! How does the geometry and convergence look? You could fly me down to tweak it for you!




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    Comment

    • David Meek
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 8938

      #3
      That's great Sonnie! Congrats man! :T

      Bud, BE CAREFUL with your back! No joking. Take it from someone who knows, you should get someone to help with things like 280 lb. RPTV's. Once you've messed up your back, you're stuck with it. Bad Sonnie. Bad Sonnie. Go to your mat. :B

      I second what Kevin said about lowering the temp and contrast. At least until you've got 8-10 hours on the guns. THEN re-calibrate with AVIA at night after at least a 30 minute warm-up. This way, the guns have a little time to stabilize. You'll want to check with AVIA again after another week or two or three to make sure settings haven't drifted a bit.

      If you are happy now, just wait 'til you see a progressive-scan output of a good anamorphic DVD. It's awesome! ;x(




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      Comment

      • Eduardo
        Moderator emeritus
        • Jun 2002
        • 1258

        #4
        Sonnie - Glad your enjoying your TV. Need some pictures and full review after you break in the tv. arty:




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        Comment

        • Kevin P
          Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 10808

          #5
          I chose the 1:85.1 non-anamorphic Mission Impossible 2
          Whoa, I just noticed that. Mission Impossible 2 is 2.35:1 anamorphic. I forgot to ask you if you set your DVD player to 16:9 mode? You should now that you have a widescreen TV, so you can take advantage of the anamorphic DVDs.

          Put the TV in full mode, the DVD in 16:9 mode and put on MI2 again. You should see a properly proportioned 2.35:1 image (there will be black bars, but not huge ones). If everything looks squashed, your player isn't in 16:9 mode, or you're watching a non-anamorphic DVD. If the disc is non-anamorphic, select Theaterwide 2 on your TV.

          If you were watching Mission Impossible (1, not 2) it's non-anamorphic, and should be viewed in Theaterwide 2.

          But definitely check to make sure your DVD player is set to 16:9. Otherwise you're downconverting your anamorphic discs and making them non-anamorphic in essence.




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          Comment

          • George Bellefontaine
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2001
            • 7637

            #6
            Aww, Sonnie, I am soooo envious. I haven't had anything new to play with for over a year now.




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            Comment

            • Sonnie Parker
              • Jan 2002
              • 2858

              #7
              Oh, so you guys are gonna warn me about my back after the fact. LOL I'm okay! I'm use to lifting heavy stuff. It hurt my knees more that my back.


              Originally posted by Kevin
              "low" or "warm" on the color temperature is usually closest to the 6500K that an ISF calibration will get you.
              Should I calibrate using AVIA with this setting? Maybe that's why I felt like I needed the Tint to be set at +5. "Warm" is less red and more blue isn't it? A plus on the Tint is actually less red with more green.

              Originally posted by Kevin further
              There should be an option in the Toshiba's menus for selecting "Film", "Video", and (maybe) "Auto". If it's set to Film you'll get combing on non-film sources (that is, sources that aren't interlaced with 3:2 pulldown). Auto should get rid of the lines, or Video. Just use Film when watching movies.

              Do you have a progressive scan DVD player?
              The setting is on "Video" for my Dish Network viewing. I changed it to "Film" for the DVD I watched.

              Even on the "Video" setting the lines are still visible.

              Another Dish Network subscriber I know suggested it was a common problem when viewing Dish Network programming.

              Yes, I have a Toshiba SD-4700 DVD Player with progressive scan. It is set to progressive scan.

              Originally posted by Kevin then
              I would use Theaterwide 2 for non-anamorphic DVDs so you get the correct aspect ratio and no cropping.
              I mean't to write Theaterwide Mode 2 instead of 3. It does crop the top and bottom though, which should be fine on non-anamorphic DVD's. It doesn't stretch anything but more or less zooms the picture.

              All else looks okay to my eyes, of course you guys have better technical eyesight than I do so you might find some lacking to it.

              One day Kevin I might take ya up on that offer to fly ya down.


              Originally posted by David
              re-calibrate with AVIA at night after at least a 30 minute warm-up. This way, the guns have a little time to stabilize. You'll want to check with AVIA again after another week or two or three to make sure settings haven't drifted a bit.
              Agree, I must re-calibrate at night since most of my viewing done at night. I suspect that's why I was not happy with my original AVIA settings.

              Originally posted by Eduardo
              Need some pictures and full review after you break in the tv.
              Hmmmm... Eduardo, that was my review....LOL Believe me, that's the best I know how to do. I'm not a good reviewer. Remember I'm a hillbilly. On the dumber side too!






              SONNIE

              Cedar Creek Cinema

              DVD Collection

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              Comment

              • Sonnie Parker
                • Jan 2002
                • 2858

                #8
                George, you should just plurge. I figure I ain't getting any younger and if I'm gonna enjoy toys I may as well do it now. LOL


                Kevin, I checked my copy of MI:2 and it is 1.85:1 non-anamorphic. I did watch it in Mode 2 instead of 3 (I mis-stated that above). It still looked very good.

                I guess maybe some of the newer versions are 2.35:1 anamorphic. I musta got the shim on that one.






                SONNIE

                Cedar Creek Cinema

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                Comment

                • Lex
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Apr 2001
                  • 27461

                  #9
                  8)
                  Doug
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                  Comment

                  • Kevin P
                    Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10808

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
                    Kevin, I checked my copy of MI:2 and it is 1.85:1 non-anamorphic. I did watch it in Mode 2 instead of 3 (I mis-stated that above). It still looked very good.
                    According to IMDB the only DVD releases were 2.35:1 anamorphic. If you were watching it in TW2 mode it would look like 1.85:1 (no visible bars) but everything would be tall and skinny. Try it again in Full and see if the proportions look more accurate.

                    If the package says 1.85:1 non-anamorphic it's mislabeled, or you have a bootleg or something. That's weird. MI2 was never 1.85:1. Are you sure it's not the original MI from 1996?




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                    Comment

                    • Sonnie Parker
                      • Jan 2002
                      • 2858

                      #11
                      I'll check it out when I get home tonight Kevin.

                      I do believe I have a bootleg copy.... although I purchased it at bestbuy.com quite a while back. It is definitely labeled 1.85:1 and in TW2 mode it looked fine (no tall skinny people... just normal).

                      I did try to watch it in normal mode to start with but got bars on top and sides.

                      I'll scan my cover and inserts and maybe we can figure it out. If bestbuy.com did this to me I'm gonna have a fit with them.

                      Matter of fact, I'm calling them right now to see if they might have some record of the purchase.






                      SONNIE

                      Cedar Creek Cinema

                      DVD Collection

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                      Comment

                      • Kevin P
                        Member
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 10808

                        #12
                        I doubt Bestbuy.com would have sent you a bootleg copy. More likely the package is mislabeled. This happens more often than you would think. A lot of anamorphic discs don't say so on the package.

                        It's a Paramount disc, so it probably says "Enhanced for 16x9" in the "features" section on the back of the package. This means the same as anamorphic. Warner discs usually say "enhanced for widescreen TVs".

                        If you have to switch to TW2 to get a proper aspect ratio and the disc is anamorphic, your DVD player is set to 4:3 Letterbox instead of 16:9. Did you see black bars on the top and bottom? On a 2.35:1 disc you would see bars. If you didn't see bars, it could be because you were using TW2 on an anamorphic disc, which would have vertically stretched the picture and eliminated the bars.

                        I did try to watch it in normal mode to start with but got bars on top and sides.
                        Normal mode is 4:3 mode, which adds bars to the sides. You'd use this to watch 4:3 material. Use Full mode to watch anamorphic discs, or TW2 for letterboxed, non-anamorphic material (including letterboxed TV shows).

                        KJP




                        Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
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                        Comment

                        • Sonnie Parker
                          • Jan 2002
                          • 2858

                          #13
                          Excuse me Kevin, I flubbed again.... I mean't to write "Natural" not "Normal". The "Full" mode stretches.

                          In the "Natural" mode I got black bars top and bottom and gray bars on each side.

                          I'll try it anyways tonight. I'm pretty sure I went through all the modes when I was trying to get it right last night but never could get it to look right on anything other than TW2.






                          SONNIE

                          Cedar Creek Cinema

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                          Comment

                          • Kevin P
                            Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 10808

                            #14
                            When you had it in TW2 and it looked "right" did it have letterbox bars?

                            If it did, your DVD player isn't set to 16:9 mode. If it didn't, you were watching a stretched picture. Or you have the only 1.85:1 copy of MI:2 in the world!

                            KJP




                            Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
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                            Comment

                            • Pat
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 1637

                              #15
                              Sonnie, since you already have "Avia" you could view the circle hatch screens and see if you have everything set up correctly.




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                              Comment

                              • John Styrnol
                                Member
                                • Nov 2002
                                • 40

                                #16
                                Sonnie,

                                Awesome man. Hope you enjoy it everyday.




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                                • Sonnie Parker
                                  • Jan 2002
                                  • 2858

                                  #17
                                  Thank John and everyone else.


                                  Pat, I wouldn't know what to look for. Maybe you can enlighten me.


                                  Kevin, okay, it appears I obviously did not try "Full" mode as it works perfectly.

                                  My Toshiba manual reads as follows: (and I figure this is where I got confused)

                                  Natural picture size (recommended for wide-screen 16:9 format pictures)

                                  The Natural picture size displays a conventional (4:3) format picture in its original 4:3 size, with black bars at the left and right.

                                  The Natural picture size displays a wide-screen (16:9) format picture in its original 16:9 size. Natural picture size is the recommended mode for wide-screen format pictures.


                                  That ain't so. If I use the Natural picture mode on widescreen DVDs I get bars on the left and right.

                                  The manual further reads:

                                  Full picture size

                                  The picture is non-uniformly enlarged--it is stretched wider to fill the width of the screen, but not stretched taller.

                                  None of the picture is hidden.



                                  Obviously a mis-print in my manual.


                                  Oh what the heck.... I've scanned the manual so you can see what I mean. This is incorrect right?






                                  These lines are beginning to make me more irritable though. Angibug has even noticed them. She ask me was it her or was it lines she was seeing?

                                  After further investigation I believe those lines are scan lines. They are approximately 1/2 inch apart. They are light white lines. As you stated Kevin, probably caused by the line doubler. They seem to be easier to see with recorded material and on medium colored backgrounds. Weird.

                                  I think I'll call Toshiba tomorrow and just see if maybe it's something that can be corrected via the service menu.


                                  I did re-set with AVIA at night and got these settings:

                                  Contrast: 40
                                  Brightness: 55
                                  Sharpness: 45 (I had this much lower but with clean contacts noticed it was perfect at this setting)
                                  Color: 42
                                  Tint: 0
                                  SVM: Off (I think I might change to High with regular TV as it appears to make the picture look better....maybe my imagination)
                                  Temp: Medium (I tried the Warm and it just didn't look right to me)
                                  DNR: On
                                  Film/Video: Video






                                  SONNIE

                                  Cedar Creek Cinema

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                                  • Kevin P
                                    Member
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 10808

                                    #18
                                    Your manual is a bit misleading. Natural puts bars on the sides to make a 4:3 image in the middle. I don't know where they get the 16:9 image nonsense in natural mode, unless maybe they're talking with a HD signal. But everything else is like I mentioned before:

                                    Natural - for watching 4:3 material with bars on the sides
                                    Full - for watching ANAMORPHIC widescreen DVDs
                                    TW1 - for watching 4:3 material with the sides stretched to fill the screen
                                    TW2 - for watching letterboxed, non-anamorphic material - DVDs, letterboxed TV shows and movies on TV, etc.
                                    TW3 - sort of a cross between TW2 and Full, some material is cropped from top and bottom. I don't see much use for this mode, unless you prefer it to TW1 for some 4:3 material

                                    As for your lines, if they're 1/2 inch apart they aren't scan lines, as scan lines are much closer together. Does it only happen when watching dish? Have you tried switching your DVD player to interlaced, or using S-video with DVD, and see if you get the lines with that? If you do, then it's the TV. If not, it's the dish receiver or signal. Is it possible for you to take a picture of the screen with the lines showing up? Do they only show up on certain channels, or certain material?

                                    KJP




                                    Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
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                                    Comment

                                    • Sonnie Parker
                                      • Jan 2002
                                      • 2858

                                      #19
                                      The lines show up on all of the Dish channels and OTA channels.

                                      They are from 1/4 inch to 1/2 apart. (Maybe 3/8)

                                      I froze or paused a picture last night with my PVR and looked at the lines fairly close. I tried several adjustments but no luck ridding them.

                                      I will try using the S-Video with DVD this weekend and see what happens.

                                      I can probably pause another scene and take a pic of it.....I'll try anyway.

                                      Oh, and thanks!






                                      SONNIE

                                      Cedar Creek Cinema

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                                      • Sonnie Parker
                                        • Jan 2002
                                        • 2858

                                        #20
                                        Hmmm.... forgot that an 8 with a parenthesis is an emoticon. LOL


                                        The lines are gone.... I hope!

                                        I called Toshiba today and they advised that I definitely should not have these lines. They did offer to either fix or replace the set at obviously no cost to me. I even went so far as to call the service center 45 miles from me and they told me they could pick it up Monday or Tuesday and have it back within a week or so.

                                        Kevin, I agree the lines are not scan lines. I finally noticed scan lines when I got a foot or so from the screen. As you said they are very close together (maybe a 16th or 32nd of an inch). No way I can see those once I get a few feet back.


                                        Anyway, I got home and as planned wanted to try the satellite signals on some different inputs. I remembered the RF cable that had always been connected to my Sony for VCR viewing and recording satellite without having to turn on the HT system (for the wife).

                                        When I was connecting everything up to the Toshiba it was laying there so I connected it to the RF ANT 1 input for the heck of it. Not even realizing that we really didn't need it anymore since we don't have a VCR.

                                        (We don't even need that for OTA channels as our Dish receiver has local loop through.)

                                        I decided to put the TV on the RF ANT 1 input and tune to channel 3 and view the Dish Receiver the old fashion way. Amazingly there were absolutely no lines. The picture was lacking vs. S-VIDEO but no lines.

                                        This immediately made me think Lex had sold me some bad S-Video cables. LOL JUST KIDDING LEX !!!

                                        It really did make me believe that there had to be something wrong with the S-VIDEO inputs. Afterall I had one satellite receiver connected to the VIDEO 1 S-VIDEO input and the other satellite receiver connected to the VIDEO 2 S-VIDEO input. Those were the only 2 inputs I was getting lines with.

                                        So, no lines on the RF ANT 1 input and none on the COMPONENT VIDEO DVD input but lines in both VIDEO 1 AND VIDEO 2 S-VIDEO inputs. Hmmmm!


                                        I disconnected the RF cable from the RF ANT 1 input. The lines disappeared.


                                        I don't know what the explaination could be with that but whatever, it is working thus far. Maybe they will stay gone.






                                        SONNIE

                                        Cedar Creek Cinema

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                                        BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

                                        Comment

                                        • Kevin P
                                          Member
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 10808

                                          #21
                                          Sonnie, if you connect the DVD player to the S-video inputs do you get lines? Also, are you running your S-video direct from your source to the TV, or are you running it through your pre-pro? Try it both ways to see if the lines are caused by one or the other.

                                          I disconnected the RF cable from the RF ANT 1 input. The lines disappeared.
                                          WHOA - Do you mean the lines went away on S-video when you disconnected the RF cable?? If that's the case, you have (had) a ground loop problem; there's nothing wrong with the TV. Perhaps your cable/sat feed isn't grounded correctly.

                                          KJP




                                          Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
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                                          Comment

                                          • John Holmes
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 2703

                                            #22
                                            Hey congrats Sonnie on the new tv! :T Enjoy!




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                                            Comment

                                            • Sonnie Parker
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 2858

                                              #23
                                              Thanks John!


                                              Kevin, the lines are still gone so I ain't gonna mess with it any more. I never tried the S-Video on the DVD. Really no need to now. I feel comfortable that my satellite system is grounded properly but there could have easily been some sort of ground loop due to all the connections.

                                              I had an RF cable from the TV in Chelsea's room connected to RF ANT 2 input (so we could peek at what she was watching) along with one satellite receiver's RF output connected to RF ANT 1 input. The 2 S-Video inputs came straight from both satellite receiver's S-Video outputs. No video is run through my pre/pro.

                                              Currently there are 3 sources connected directly to the Toshiba video inputs:

                                              DVD to component input 1
                                              satellite receiver 1 to S-Video input 1
                                              satellite receiver 2 to S-Video input 2


                                              It's kinda weird though because with all of the original connections I didn't get the lines while viewing satellite through the RF ANT 1 input. I would have thought I'd get the lines through both inputs (S-Video and RF).

                                              Btw, I am assuming this was the problem as I never re-connected the RF cable to see if I could get the lines to come back. I figured once they were gone I'd leave well enough alone.






                                              SONNIE

                                              Cedar Creek Cinema

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                                              BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

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                                              • John Styrnol
                                                Member
                                                • Nov 2002
                                                • 40

                                                #24
                                                Sonnie,

                                                Glad to see you got it figured out. Enjoy.




                                                John

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