Panasonic BD50 tomorrow???

[Ovation]

I don't think the jump from VHS -> DVD had as much to do with quality as some on here believe. Heck, the first what, 5-8 years of DVD were letterboxed or pan & scan? I think what sold DVD was no more rewinding or tapes that get worn out, being able to skip to wherever you want on the disc, less bulky, etc.

All the things you describe are part of the "quality of the experience"--though I noticed, on a then 13 year old SD CRT (for which I had to buy a little converter box as it did not even have a composite RCA input), better PQ even on non-anamorphic DVDs (as did a lot of my friends).

[H.T.C]

I don't think the jump from VHS -> DVD had as much to do with quality as some on here believe. Heck, the first what, 5-8 years of DVD were letterboxed or pan & scan? I think what sold DVD was no more rewinding or tapes that get worn out, being able to skip to wherever you want on the disc, less bulky, etc.

I think you have one of the right reasons about the public going to dvd from tape ... remember this sign ...be kind rewind.

[wettou]

Don't make the mistake of comparing product lifecycles directly. Technology moves much, much faster today then it did when DVD came out. A couple of years back then is around 6 months today. Blu-ray is going into its 3rd year.

Three years is an eternity in the computer world!! Home electronics moves much more slooooooowly which is why the big CE guys never saw the ipod and iTune coming their way like a tsunami!:P

If they continue Apple might just enjoy taking their lunch with High def download and then you can kiss Blu Ray good buy. Everyone now streams their music even if they buy a CD. The same will happen with movies except Apple and other will deliver the high def content.

[George Bellefontaine]

There is one factor to consider, though--DVD was, to EVERYONE, a clear and HUGE leap in quality above VHS. The same view is NOT universally shared in the case of BD vs SD DVD.

That's pretty much my way of thinking, too. Now I did spend well over $1K for my 480i Sony 7700 dvd player, but it was the high end baby for my theater. I had cheaper $2-$300 players elsewhere in the house. And when the dust settles, and I know for sure that a high-end Blu-ray player is exactly a high end, glitch-free, Blu-ray player, I would likely consider putting one in my theater and moving the Panny BD30 to another room. In the meantime, though, I do feel that entry level Blu-ray players are overpriced.

[littlesaint]

Three years is an eternity in the computer world!! Home electronics moves much more slooooooowly ....

Very true, but the home electronics of today are essentially computer systems. You have programmable chips that can be updated with new code. You can update the technology to an extent, without having to move to an entirely new product line. This also in a way skews the pricing model, but you're not going to convince the average consumer to pay more because of a feature most think is commonplace in the computer age.

[wettou]

Very true, but the home electronics of today are essentially computer systems. You have programmable chips that can be updated with new code. You can update the technology to an extent, without having to move to an entirely new product line. This also in a way skews the pricing model, but you're not going to convince the average consumer to pay more because of a feature most think is commonplace in the computer age.

Maybe except CE manufacturer don't they want to sell new boxes!!

[georgev]

That's pretty much my way of thinking, too. Now I did spend well over $1K for my 480i Sony 7700 dvd player, but it was the high end baby for my theater. I had cheaper $2-$300 players elsewhere in the house. And when the dust settles, and I know for sure that a high-end Blu-ray player is exactly a high end, glitch-free, Blu-ray player, I would likely consider putting one in my theater and moving the Panny BD30 to another room. In the meantime, though, I do feel that entry level Blu-ray players are overpriced.

Hows your BD 30 George?

[David Meek]

FWIW, Blu-Ray.com is showing the upcoming Sony BDP-S550 (release scheduled for fall of this year) with an MSRP of $499 and it's a full blown BD-Live 2.0 player.

[George Bellefontaine]

Hows your BD 30 George?

It's a terrific player, George. Most reviewers have rated it as the best of the crop. I have nothing to compare it to so I'll just take their word. But I have owned it since January 6 and it has played everything I have thrown at it glitch free, which is about 45 to 50 movies by now. It also fires up pretty quickly on most titles. I'd recommend it to anybody. But if you want a live player, you will have to pay a bit more to get the BD50 or as Tex Meek just mentioned, pay a little less and get the Sony.

[cxc21]

If that's true though, where is Blu-ray's successor after 3 years so far?

How about this. The confusion continues.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2217906/enhanced-dvd-compete-blu-ray

[impala454]

I wouldn't really call that a "successor." My comment you quoted was in reference to littlesaint talking about how technology advancements occur much faster now than they did when we went from VHS -> DVD. Blu-ray -> Whateverthisnewthingiscalled wouldn't really be a technology advancement.

[cxc21]

Well, if that works, most won't need blue ray for a while.

[impala454]

I don't understand what you mean... the thing toshiba is coming up with would still require a separate player...

[Ovation]

If the player works as advertised, though, one won't need "blu" discs as SD DVDs will look "as good" (again, if the claims are true). So the new player would be the only cost to get in on 'the good stuff' (and they are supposed to be available at an MSRP of 200$).

Meh--I'll get one to go with my SED display. Should make a great match.

[impala454]

That's not what the new toshiba product is though. The link he pasted talks of a disc that will look "as good" as blu-rays, but only in a new player. The "backwards compatibility" was that the same disc would play (albeit not in HD) on a regular DVD player. Basically this is almost no different than an HD-DVD combo disc was. The article he pasted equated it to how SACDs can play in a normal CD player but play higher quality audio in a SACD player.

It does not say that the new player will make current SD-DVDs look "as good" as blu-rays. That would be impossible.

[Ovation]

There are other articles, however, where such a claim (implicitly, but still) IS being made. Of course it is not LITERALLY possible, but with the reports of much greater computer processing and the application of a next-gen video processing software (I'm not an engineer, but if I understood correctly, it has something to do with processing across multiple frames rather than frame by frame), it could be significantly better than current "upconversion" and, on sub 50 inch displays, the difference between BD and SD DVD in that situation may become far smaller. It's all pure speculation, at this point, but the potential for this tech, if it is even half as good as advertised, is quite good. It can be incorporated into BD players to make SD look that much better, it can be put into displays directly (which would be a boon for other sources going to the display). I'm not holding my breath, but I would not dismiss it entirely out of hand either.

[impala454]

Well that does sound great, but to the original question I wouldn't really see it as a "successor" to blu-ray.

[georgev]

But if you want a live player, you will have to pay a bit more to get the BD50 or as Tex Meek just mentioned, pay a little less and get the Sony.

Live Player? Whats that?(sorry if it's a foolish question)
I will need a player that does decoding on board and send sthe signals via a 7.1 analog to my Pre/Pro

[George Bellefontaine]

Live Player? Whats that?(sorry if it's a foolish question)
I will need a player that does decoding on board and send sthe signals via a 7.1 analog to my Pre/Pro

Live simply means it is 2.0 and has a port for internet connection. Also, George, my BD30 does not decode. It bitstreams to a receiver that can do the decoding. I believe the BD50 will do internal decoding, but you had best check it out before buying when it becomes available.

[Ovation]

The only players that are currently announced that will decode ALL the audio codecs internally AND pass them out via analogue MCH outputs are the Panny BD50 and the Sony S550. Perhaps the 2000$ plus Denon (don't remember the model number) does this as well, but it's not on my radar. Right now (though it remains to be confirmed), the Sony is at the top of my list with its MSRP supposed to be 499$. That represents what I'm prepared to spend over a PS3 to get the advanced audio codecs. If it comes in at BD50 prices, I'll go without the advanced audio for now, get a PS3 and upgrade my receiver sometime down the line. With my A2, relying only on "core" audio tracks, I've been sufficiently impressed that I think I can live without "lossless" for a while without feeling like my life is empty, meaningless and tortured (as some "lossless only" posters in various fora have indicated).

[impala454]

FYI, not sure if it's been posted here, but Walmart is currently offering a $100 gift card with purchase of a blu-ray player. Yes, that includes the PS3.

[hifiguymi]

The only players that are currently announced that will decode ALL the audio codecs internally AND pass them out via analogue MCH outputs are the Panny BD50 and the Sony S550. Perhaps the 2000$ plus Denon (don't remember the model number) does this as well, but it's not on my radar. Right now (though it remains to be confirmed), the Sony is at the top of my list with its MSRP supposed to be 499$. That represents what I'm prepared to spend over a PS3 to get the advanced audio codecs. If it comes in at BD50 prices, I'll go without the advanced audio for now, get a PS3 and upgrade my receiver sometime down the line. With my A2, relying only on "core" audio tracks, I've been sufficiently impressed that I think I can live without "lossless" for a while without feeling like my life is empty, meaningless and tortured (as some "lossless only" posters in various fora have indicated).

There is also the Pioneer BDP-51FD at $599.00 US and the Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD at $799.00 US. Both are shipping in July (at this point anyway).

Eric

[Ovation]

Analogue MCH output on each of them--and not just of PCM? Perhaps there are more options on the horizon--but 599$ is more than I want to pay.

Edit to add: The Pioneers, unlike the Sony and Panny, are NOT Profile 2.0.

[David Meek]

There is also the Pioneer BDP-51FD at $599.00 US and the Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD at $799.00 US. Both are shipping in July (at this point anyway).

The official Blu-ray site is still showing them shipping on July 18th.

[Briz vegas]

All this stuff about analogue multi-channel out raises a big question.

Is the analogue stage on these players going to be any good. If not then HD audio benefits will be lost anyway.

I have heard a CD on a good CD player beat a SACD on a Denon 3910 hi def audio player.
I suspect that unless the analogue stage on the blueray player and the gazillion cables (7 or whatever) are up to scratch you have gained little over a good receiver doing DTS (particularly when I borrow a decent power cord off my CD player and use it on my receiver).

Unless convinced otherwise I would save the dollars and go with the cheaper BD30 player and enjoy the nice pictures.

[littlesaint]

All this stuff about analogue multi-channel out raises a big question.

Is the analogue stage on these players going to be any good. If not then HD audio benefits will be lost anyway.

I have heard a CD on a good CD player beat a SACD on a Denon 3910 hi def audio player.
I suspect that unless the analogue stage on the blueray player and the gazillion cables (7 or whatever) are up to scratch you have gained little over a good receiver doing DTS (particularly when I borrow a decent power cord off my CD player and use it on my receiver).

Unless convinced otherwise I would save the dollars and go with the cheaper BD30 player and enjoy the nice pictures.

The analog stage on my XA2 HD-DVD player is decent. The DACs are Burr-Brown 1755 for 5.1 and Wolfsen 8740 for separate stereo connections with JRC 4580 dual op-amps on all channels. Not top of the line, but certainly no worse than a lot of AVRs out there. No reason Blu-ray players can't follow suit.

Remember that although HD audio supports 24/192, film is only 24/48 at best. Some video may be 24/96, but it's not that common.

[hifiguymi]

The analog stage on my XA2 HD-DVD player is decent. The DACs are Burr-Brown 1755 for 5.1 and Wolfsen 8740 for separate stereo connections with JRC 4580 dual op-amps on all channels. Not top of the line, but certainly no worse than a lot of AVRs out there. No reason Blu-ray players can't follow suit.

Remember that although HD audio supports 24/192, film is only 24/48 at best. Some video may be 24/96, but it's not that common.

I have a question for you. I've never really used any of the HD-DVD players so do they give you the ability to set speakers at small, large, or none; have crossover settings, like selectable frequencies; speaker distance; and channel level for each front speaker, center, each rear, and sub? The only BD player that has that that I've used is the Denon DVD-3800BDCI. Without that stuff the multi-channel analog output is not worth using IMO. I've even come across a BD player that will decode Dolby TrueHD but only output the decoded signal through the HDMI output. The analog only gets the shadow DD track.

Eric

[John Holmes]

I have a question for you. I've never really used any of the HD-DVD players so do they give you the ability to set speakers at small, large, or none; have crossover settings, like selectable frequencies; speaker distance; and channel level for each front speaker, center, each rear, and sub? The only BD player that has that that I've used is the Denon DVD-3800BDCI. Without that stuff the multi-channel analog output is not worth using IMO. I've even come across a BD player that will decode Dolby TrueHD but only output the decoded signal through the HDMI output. The analog only gets the shadow DD track.

Eric

Yes, they have bass management. Though, some complain about the sub output being -10 db.

I use the analog out on my XA1 and am very pleased with the results. Even with my center channel being mislabeled ( reading small but actually is large and vis-verse). For the bass difference, I just bump the sub trim on my pre/pro to compensate.