HDMI Alternatives

[c019740]

Is anybody familiar with any alternatives to HDMI connection? I'm currently undergoing some reconstruction with a tv mount above the fireplace and the installation crew told the stereo store that they couldnt run HDMI cables because of the way that the cables are going to be bent and possible damaged. The guy at the store said that they used a cat 5 cable with Muxlabs balun connector. What ever that means and Im' not sure if I'm spelling that correctly but thats what it sounded like. He said the net effect is the same as HDMI. Any info would be appreciated. I didnt think there was anything similar and equivalent to HDMI.

[Kevin D]

Sounds like he's wanting to send component video over CAT5, which works great. What size TV are you going with and what sources? Component video could very well be equal. I would only strive for HDMI if your TV is a 50" 1080p and you go with a Blu-ray player.

Several companies have balun's to run HDMI over 2 CAT5's. They're expensive at around $500 for both adapters and they do have compatibility problems. You could probably do an OWLINK fiber cable setup for around $400.

That said, what does the fireplace look like? Is it solid brick or something? I've ran HDMI cables in, around, through, behind, between, room under construction, finished, etc.... and have never had a problem from a bent or damaged cable. Several companies even make flatter cables with no ferrous coil just to run through wall caps and such. Unless your setup is a solid brick fireplace with a concrete ceiling, I would find a different install crew.

Kevin D.

[Chris D]

Absolutely--Kevin D's got the right info. You can send HDMI over other methods, like Cat 5, Cat 6, fiber optic, and some other exotic stuff.

[JohnA]

You can also get a device called a "HDfury", it's a HDMI to RGB converter and they have a few different variations of it available. I don't know if should not post a link to the two sellers in the US that I know of or not, due to the sort of device it is. And me not really knowing the forum rules here about posting anything in regards to such devices, even though this one is legal to sell in the US and elsewhere. Plus the fact that both of those sellers either sell their own line of cables or also sells or has ads for other cable vendors. So just do a google search for "HDfury" or "HD Fury" and you will get plenty of hits on both more detailed information about it, and also places where to locate one.

[Chris D]

Wouldn't you lose resolution by converting from HDMI to RGB? There's probably a reason that we're not all using RGB now, even though it's established and readily available.

[Kevin D]

If they're afraid to run an HDMI, I doubt they're going to run a mini-RG6. The Fury doesn't have a line driver in it, so he would have to put it right at the TV (needing an HDMI there anyway) or buy another device to send the RGB over a long run. But John's right it is a solution and they do work!

I'm running an BOX1080, which is HDMI to component that's no longer made. Works awesome.

Chris, I'm surprised you question RGB with all the flight simulators you've surely had to do. Most of those are running 2000+p over RGB. We're using HDMI for copy protection. Digital is great, but if your set is analog whats it matter.

We're running a Fury on a first run 1080p Mitsu DLP that has HDCP HDMI inputs, but won't accept 1080p over anything but the RGB connector!

Kevin D.

[c019740]

Im running an Integra 7.8 with B&W speakers and Satelite by Direct TV. Ive got a Sony Bravia 46 inch W series. I will buy a BD when the project is done. The stone is Boulder Creek which is basically a veneer over concrete wall board above the Mahogony mantel and basically applying the stone over the brick below the mantel. Also, got a new floor level solid limestone hearth. The cable installed comes up through the floor from the basement (where all the components will be) and then comes up the side behind the stone and then comes up behind the wall board, then come through behind the tv. I can post pictures tonight. He told me Cat5 but the cable says RG6. From what I remember, looks like three RG6 cables and one thinner wire. I can verify that tonight.

[c019740]

Here are the cables they installed. I've got three RG6 cables that they labeled R, B & G, and 2 Proflex Cat5e cables. I would assume that the Cat5e is for video and the RG6 is for what? I would assume the sound would come strait from the Satelite box to the receiver direct to the speakers so Im not sure what the RG6 would be used for? (not from the tv.)They will connect these cables to an HDMI connector that will be attached to the TV and Recieiver.

[IMG]DSC00253.JPG[/IMG]

[Kevin D]

Don't see the picture, but the three RG6 coax's are going to be used for component video, and the two CAt5's will most likely be used for 'future' use.

Using that setup, you won't be able to get 1080p (at all) over to your TV, or upscaled regular DVD's to 720p,1080i to your TV. You will have to buy one of the mentioned converter boxes; either converting HDMI to component or converting HDMI to run over the cat5's and then back to HDMI. Not a good or cheap solution in either case.

Bottom line, if they were able to run 3 RG6 cables and 2 cat5's, they can easily run an HDMI cable. The stereo store seems to not like HDMI and don't think YOU need it. Unfortunately you are going to need it at some point and I would get a new stereo store if they won't run one.

Kevin D.

[c019740]

They will being using the baluns though. (I got the following off another website).....(http://www.mustavit.co.uk/acatalog/Baluns.html) Baluns allow an audio and/or video (up to 1080p full HD) to be transmitted over very long distances without any loss in quality using structured cable such as Cat5e. Baluns allow signals to be sent over long distances, making them ideal for use with home cinema and multiroom systems, as well as offices and conference centres. The reverse side of all our baluns is a standard RJ45 female connector.

Each balun order gives you one pair - baluns must be ordered in pairs as one balun is required at either end of the Cat5e cable.

[Kevin D]

Well, good luck. We haven't found a set that works 100% of the time.

Kevin D.

[cxc21]

Is anybody familiar with any alternatives to HDMI connection? I'm currently undergoing some reconstruction with a tv mount above the fireplace and the installation crew told the stereo store that they couldnt run HDMI cables because of the way that the cables are going to be bent and possible damaged. The guy at the store said that they used a cat 5 cable with Muxlabs balun connector. What ever that means and Im' not sure if I'm spelling that correctly but thats what it sounded like. He said the net effect is the same as HDMI. Any info would be appreciated. I didnt think there was anything similar and equivalent to HDMI.

That sounds like BS to scam more money if it involves additional converters or such. HDMI cable is like any other cable. Shielding is very important to prevent signal loss. You should not have to convert anything. It will be bad for sure. If they just use an connector to send the HDMI signal through another cable which is equally well shielded and has the same number of connection that's fine. Remember that HDMI also has audio connections (which are not so often used yet) not only video so you want to make sure that this is not lost. Also, if you run analog audio lines next to a bad digital video line you get bad interference. What distances are we talking? I run a 50 feet HDMI cable to my projector.

[cxc21]

If you get any of these extenders make sure they support HDCP. Didn't see anything mentioned regarding the Baluns.

[Kevin P]

Baluns are passive devices, meaning they don't "do anything" to the bitstream other than pass it along (they just convert balanced to unbalanced signals and back). So, they should work fine with HDCP.

[cxc21]

Don't see the picture, but the three RG6 coax's are going to be used for component video, and the two CAt5's will most likely be used for 'future' use.

Using that setup, you won't be able to get 1080p (at all) over to your TV, or upscaled regular DVD's to 720p,1080i to your TV. You will have to buy one of the mentioned converter boxes; either converting HDMI to component or converting HDMI to run over the cat5's and then back to HDMI. Not a good or cheap solution in either case.

Bottom line, if they were able to run 3 RG6 cables and 2 cat5's, they can easily run an HDMI cable. The stereo store seems to not like HDMI and don't think YOU need it. Unfortunately you are going to need it at some point and I would get a new stereo store if they won't run one.



Kevin D.

Kevin is right on, looks like these guys are still stuck in analog that is probably just what they have always done. Insist on the digital HDMI cable or you lose all the advantages of the new standards. >

[cxc21]

Baluns are passive devices, meaning they don't "do anything" to the bitstream other than pass it along (they just convert balanced to unbalanced signals and back). So, they should work fine with HDCP.

Than it should be at least stated in the doco and manuals?

[Kevin D]

Baluns are passive devices, meaning they don't "do anything" to the bitstream other than pass it along (they just convert balanced to unbalanced signals and back). So, they should work fine with HDCP.

Not true in the HDMI baluns. They are powered and very active. We've tried the Gefen brand and it only really works when coming out of a Gefen HDMI splitter. Coming out of a Yamaha receiver resulted in digital noise in the signal and a loss of handshake every 5 seconds. The Key Digital baluns are supposed to be more compatible, but we've been too scared to try.

We're going to try the Ethereal model that converts to 4 RG6 cables and back when it ever gets released.

Kevin D.

[Andrew M Ward]

Kevin D = The Man... ;x(

(how you been buddy.. long time no phone call)

[c019740]

I'll let you know how it tuns out. Why would audio connections be important running to the TV? As far as I know the audio comes in from the satelite box directly to the receiver and then direct to the speakers, it has nothing to do with any wires running to and from the TV. My run is about 100 feet or so maybe a longer. I have extra cable in case I decide to move the system in the future. It supports v1.3a. The only problem I see is with future technological upgrades. The other problem is a gob of wires all over the place.

[cxc21]

I'll let you know how it tuns out. Why would audio connections be important running to the TV? As far as I know the audio comes in from the satelite box directly to the receiver and then direct to the speakers, it has nothing to do with any wires running to and from the TV. My run is about 100 feet or so maybe a longer. I have extra cable in case I decide to move the system in the future. It supports v1.3a. The only problem I see is with future technological upgrades. The other problem is a gob of wires all over the place.

Of course it depends on your setup. Your satelite box may have only analog audio outputs. The receiver and monitor are 100 feet apart? How long are the cables for the loudspeakers? The shorter the better. HDMI includes video and audio signal so you just have to run one cable from BD player to receiver or amp and one from the receiver to the monitor. Also only HDMI has the bandwidth for DTS HD master audio.

[c019740]

I have a Direct TV HD box and am using HDMI cables to my receiver. I have short speaker wires.

Regarding audio, after looking into this, the HDMI to the TV is basically useless for audio signal. Whats important is to have a HDMI cable that goes from the the Direct tv box to the receiver. The speaker wires go directly to the speakers from the reciever so all audio capability that the 7.8 can produce is utilzed including DTS HD Master.

Regarding Video, the Gefan HDMI Cat 5e Extreme S unit is HDCP compliant. The HDCP is High Bandwidth Digital Content Protection. Created by Intel, HDCP is used with HDTV signals over HDMI and HDMI connections and on D-VHS recordings to prevent unauthorized duplication of copy written materials. So, full 1080P / 1920 x 1200 is present. Cat5e is similar to Cat5 but is enhanced to support up to 1000 megabits per second. I'm not usre what HDMI is capable of. I do know that after watching TV last night with this new system the tv wasnt freeze framing as much as with HDMI. Also, voice and picture matched prefectly. With HDMI it seemed like it wasnt matching all the time. But its to soon to tell. As far as clarity I couldnt tell the difference. As far as color I couldnt tell the difference. The audio will be hooked up today. Again, there is unsightly cable and connections gobbed behind the tv and by the receiver. Although you cant see it, I know its there so hopefully I forget about it.

[cxc21]

I have a Direct TV HD box and am using HDMI cables to my receiver. I have short speaker wires.

Regarding audio, after looking into this, the HDMI to the TV is basically useless for audio signal. Whats important is to have a HDMI cable that goes from the the Direct tv box to the receiver. The speaker wires go directly to the speakers from the reciever so all audio capability that the 7.8 can produce is utilzed including DTS HD Master.

Regarding Video, the Gefan HDMI Cat 5e Extreme S unit is HDCP compliant. The HDCP is High Bandwidth Digital Content Protection. Created by Intel, HDCP is used with HDTV signals over HDMI and HDMI connections and on D-VHS recordings to prevent unauthorized duplication of copy written materials. So, full 1080P / 1920 x 1200 is present. Cat5e is similar to Cat5 but is enhanced to support up to 1000 megabits per second. I'm not usre what HDMI is capable of. I do know that after watching TV last night with this new system the tv wasnt freeze framing as much as with HDMI. Also, voice and picture matched prefectly. With HDMI it seemed like it wasnt matching all the time. But its to soon to tell. As far as clarity I couldnt tell the difference. As far as color I couldnt tell the difference. The audio will be hooked up today. Again, there is unsightly cable and connections gobbed behind the tv and by the receiver. Although you cant see it, I know its there so hopefully I forget about it.

I am not sure what your current solution costs. Anyway, 50ft HDMI cables are $37.50 at www.bluejeanscable.com. hdmi to hdmi connector $12 so for $100 you can bridge 100ft. 7.8?