Timbre Matching Surrounds . . .

[NMG]

Is this a huge concern or is it more critical for the fronts and the center?

I upgraded my old Paradigm Studio 80's to to B&W 703's and I'm thinking about expanding my 2 channel system to a 5 channel setup and was wondering if I should just use the 80's in the rear instead of buying 705's. My 80's are still in great condition and they are a 2.5 way speaker in a tower design. The 705's would be a 2 way standmount.

Any thoughts on this subject?

Thanks in advance!

[kgveteran]

Ideally, front identical is supreme.Surround channels should have the same tweeter as the mains.IMHO.It really brought out more seemless surround sound in music and movies.Just my $.02 .

KG

[George Bellefontaine]

Let me tell you, when I first got into 5.1, I had mixed speakers front, center and rear and when I switched to 7.1 with a complete matching set of speakers, the difference was like day and night.

[spyboy]

Let me tell you, when I first got into 5.1, I had mixed speakers front, center and rear and when I switched to 7.1 with a complete matching set of speakers, the difference was like day and night.

Hi George

Do you mean that all 7 speakers are exactly the same?

Thanks in Advance

[Burke Strickland]

Either that or he used to listen with the lights on and now only listens in the dark. :>)

I have heard successful implementations of surround sound systems with identical (usually "monitor" or small "bookshelf") speakers and with different models of timbre matched speakers from the same manufacturer. The main goal is to achieve a cohesive (seamless) 360 degree surround field. Of course, when well done in movies, the whole sound environment is "created" to invoke the scene on the screen. In the service of classical music, ideally the surround field would provide a sonic "hologram", meaning that the sound of the room or performance hall is recreated in addition to the music.

For example, Richard Vandersteen set up a SACD demo at a local HT emporium a couple of years ago using a pair of his magnificent 5As in front, wall mounted surrounds and his specially designed center. Each channel had a dedicated sub (of course they were all Vandersteen), with front L/r channels using the built in subs in the 5As. As the music was playing, listeners could walk around the room, and the position of the instruments was still where the "should be" even when away from the sweet spot. It was an uncanny "you are there" sensation. Needless to say, the other components were very high caliber as well, starting with a megabuck Linn universal player.

On the other hand, I have heard unsuccessful implementations of both identical speakers all around or timbre matched sets of different models where the system was not properly set up or calibrated, and/or the room acoustics were either way too dead or way to "live" for even the processed surround signal to overcome.

In one case of an exceptionally "live" room, switching from a set of old speaker cables to a more up-to-date set of wires significantly improved the sound balance, even without the recommended room treatments. (The cables tamed an overly bright high end.)

It is not likely, however, that you will ever get a really good cohesive surround sound field from a collection of wildly mismatched speakers, regardless of how good the other equipment is or how carefully the room has been treated to reduce standing waves or spurious reflections.

Even a moderately mismatched set of speakers will drag down the overall effect -- witness the blurred dialog or unconvincing special effects from the center when people choose to "cheap out" on their center channel speaker instead of one approximating the quality of their front L/R speakers. And a helicopter panning fron rear to front might sound like it is two different models of aircraft as it passes by if the rears are significantly different sonically than the front three.

Burke

[Chris D]

Yes, I highly recommend matching all speakers in a system. No, this does not mean that all 7 have to be identical, but should be made by the same company, and made to work with each other. The front three speakers can be the same, as they accomplish similar things, although people often use center channels that are designed in horizontal boxed instead of vertical like mains. These should be direct radiating. But surrounds need to create a soundfield AROUND the listener, not have the listener pick out sounds coming from one specific speaker location. Therefore, bipoles, dipoles, and tripoles work well for surrounds, which would not work well for the front three speakers.

My system is an example of speakers designed to work well with each other. All Klipsch speakers, specifically designed to work with each other.
(2) KLF-30 mains
KLF-C7 center
(4) KSP-S6 surrounds

My ideal setup would be seven identical speakers, though, all Magnepan 20.1 speakers. (I think it would cost something like $70,000, though)

[Burke Strickland]

Therefore, bipoles, dipoles, and tripoles work well for surrounds, which would not work well for the front three speakers.

I beg to differ. While many models of these three design types may not be suited for front channel use, I've also heard many standard box speakers that frankly aren't suited for any use but as a plant stand. :>)

I've been quite pleased with Definitive Technology bipoles at the front left and right positions, and Magnepan dipole planar speakers in the front three positions (with Maggies at the rear as well). In fact, so far, I haven't heard anything better than the all-Maggie set up, including a couple of ultra-high-end (aka, "very expensive") systems (Watt and Cello) that I wouldn't have wanted even if they had donated them to me.

Bottom line, I've heard good and bad setups using all of these speaker types (except tripoles) all around.

Burke

[spyboy]

Yes, I highly recommend matching all speakers in a system. No, this does not mean that all 7 have to be identical, but should be made by the same company, and made to work with each other. The front three speakers can be the same, as they accomplish similar things, although people often use center channels that are designed in horizontal boxed instead of vertical like mains. These should be direct radiating. But surrounds need to create a soundfield AROUND the listener, not have the listener pick out sounds coming from one specific speaker location. Therefore, bipoles, dipoles, and tripoles work well for surrounds, which would not work well for the front three speakers.

My system is an example of speakers designed to work well with each other. All Klipsch speakers, specifically designed to work with each other.
(2) KLF-30 mains
KLF-C7 center
(4) KSP-S6 surrounds

My ideal setup would be seven identical speakers, though, all Magnepan 20.1 speakers. (I think it would cost something like $70,000, though)

Hi Chris

I would love 7 Magnepan 20.1s as well! My second choice would be 7 Apogee Acoustics Studio Grands!!

For now I just have to make do with a mix including JBL L60Ts, an M&K S150AC center, and Cambridge Sound Works switchable dipole/bipole surrounds.

Best

[spyboy]

I beg to differ. While many models of these three design types may not be suited for front channel use, I've also heard many standard box speakers that frankly aren't suited for any use but as a plant stand. :>)

I've been quite pleased with Definitive Technology bipoles at the front left and right positions, and Magnepan dipole planar speakers in the front three positions (with Maggies at the rear as well). In fact, so far, I haven't heard anything better than the all-Maggie set up, including a couple of ultra-high-end (aka, "very expensive") systems (Watt and Cello) that I wouldn't have wanted even if they had donated them to me.

Bottom line, I've heard good and bad setups using all of these speaker types (except tripoles) all around.

Burke

Hi Burke

It has been a long time since I listened to tower bipoles. I listened at length to Paradigm bipoles. At the same store I looked at Luxman receivers, and Carver amps. Also, I compared the 35 inch Sony tube to the 40 inch Mitsubishi tube TV at the same store.

I ended up with a Toshiba 32 inch IDTV, which ended up with a failed mother board. Then I got Toshiba to pay me $1,400 which I used to get a 35 inch ProScan ID TV. I still have it and it works perfectly.

Kind Regards

[George Bellefontaine]

Hi George

Do you mean that all 7 speakers are exactly the same?

Thanks in Advance

Yes. They are all Boston Acoustics except the subs . They are Energys.