should i add an amplifier to this setup?

[gcmarshall]

would anyone mind sharing opinions on what i am considering doing? positive, negative opinions alike are welcome, as i want to consider all sides of this proposition--

i want to have a DIY heavy duty home theater, wherein i will never be dissatisfied with special effects, sound, etc. i also listen to 50% music on the same system. i am trying to decide if adding a separate amp makes sense and, if so, which one to add. i already have a yamaha RV-V2500. my front L/R's are Boston Acoustics VR3 (99% sure i will keep these). my center is a polk CSi5, surrounds are Polk FXi5.

the room will be 23x17x8(ceiling height)…over 3000 cb ft if my math is correct. The room will serve double duty as a den/casual LR and theater/music room. The TV and front speakers will be along one of the 23’ sides. The room is partly solid oak wood paneled walls, partly windows (on both sides) and partly a floor-to-ceiling brick fireplace on the side opposite the TV. Flooring will be solid hardwoods with partial carpeting. No changes will be made to the physical aspects of the room.

in our current house, where we will move from next year, this setup puts out good (but not great) clarity and detail for movies and music. i would like to err slightly on the side of too much amplifier rather than too little (while at the same time not buying something that is way overkill either performance or price-wise).

i have been considering a rotel RMB-1095, Adcom 5 channel x 200 watt amp and a mcintosh mc207 (7x200 watts, but also much more expensive than the first two choices; the mcintosh possibly falls into the "overkill" category, but i sure do love those cool blue meters).

what do you think about adding an amp? definitely, maybe, definitely not, etc.??

if yes, what about a model recommendation or recommended performance of said amp? my primary criteria would be performance and reliability, equally of utmost importance to me. i do not want to buy an unreliable brand just to save money. i'd rather pay more if i could feel comfortable that i was getting lexus-like reliability (and performance) in return.

anyone? bueller?

[Karma]

HI,
It depends entirely on your HT ambitions. I would say your current system is pretty well performance balanced. This is what usually happens to me. I'll get a wild bug and upgrade, say, my amp. Well if that was successful I, of course, want to extract the max from the amp. So, new speakers. Oh gosh, I could be even better with a new front end. And on and on and on until the entire system is replaced and my bank account is bare.

I will never argue against system upgrades. Be ready for the unintended consequences.

Sparky

[wildfire99]

i want to have a DIY heavy duty home theater, wherein i will never be dissatisfied with special effects, sound, etc.

This is impossible.

The amp section looks serviceable on that Yamaha unit. A second possibily is to use it as an amp and get a new pre/pro.

However... since you mentioned DIY (mwah hah hah hah); the way to go IMO is to upgrade your speakers. I haven't heard huge differences in amps, once you get something reasonable (e.g. nothing from Wal-Mart). If you have concerns with clarity then I think better mains and center would help, and if you want to follow the 10% rule for DIY (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but generally says that a well-engineered DIY component will perform similarly to or better than a retail product of 10x the price), those Boston's are $65, the polks are $35.

If you really need to get an amp, then used is the way to go, and the Adcoms are nice. I've never heard a Rotel. If you want new, then it would be fun to look at Outlaw products too. I wouldn't mind a 990/7125 combo for under the price of a new Rotel amp, if I didn't have ginormous mains to drive. Oooh... and then two 15" DIY subs, that would be a very merry christmas indeed.

[gcmarshall]

thanks for your inputs. i guess where i am hung up is as follows --

i don't mind the potential $2,000 outlay for, say, a rotel RMB-1095. i just would hate the result being that i spend $2,000 and end up with a nickel's worth of difference or a nickel's worth of improvement over my yamaha's amps. does that make sense? if i could feel comfortable that a 200x5 dedicated amp would be a night/day improvement over my current setup, i would take the plunge.

any other thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

[Azeke]

thanks for your inputs. i guess where i am hung up is as follows --

i don't mind the potential $2,000 outlay for, say, a rotel RMB-1095. i just would hate the result being that i spend $2,000 and end up with a nickel's worth of difference or a nickel's worth of improvement over my yamaha's amps. does that make sense? if i could feel comfortable that a 200x5 dedicated amp would be a night/day improvement over my current setup, i would take the plunge.

any other thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

I owned a Yami receiver before I went to separates, and initially upgraded to a 2 channel amp for my fronts. Although, I did not experience a day/night improvement, it had a significant impact on my overall acoustics, especially the front channels.

I would go for a 2 channel amp at ~$1000.00 and maybe upgrade the fronts and center (same brand to maintain timbre matching), or better yet, buy a sub with the extra $1000.00, that would probably provide the most significant impact. Just my humble opinion.

Best regards,

Azeke

[gcmarshall]

azeke:

great points and suggestions. i thought about that idea - adding a 2-channel amp to power my front L/R and seeing how i like the idea of a separate amp. that way, if it is not the improvement i had hoped for, at least i did not spend as much money. my concern was whether or not having a 200 watt 2 channel amp running my L/R and my Yammie running the center would cause some sort of noticeable and/or awkward difference in the sound, output, or clairy between the mains and the center. i don't want to create a "gap" in the sound with the L/R being powered by a more robust amp than the center.

in any case, if i felt as if an amp would really make a very positive/noticeable differecne, i would go ahead with the 5 channel just b/c it makes more sense to me to do it that way. but, i am still hung up on bypassing the Yamaha's amps, which are probably very good, in favor of spending $2,000 +/- for an unknown amount of improvement.

thanks for your assistance and input. it is appreciated.

[Azeke]

As long as you calibrate your speaker via a SPL meter, and Video disc, you should be fine, but after all it's your money. Best bang for the buck 2 channel RB-1080 and a sub (if you don't already own one).

However, that being said, see if your dealer will allow you to test both amps in your home, your ears are the true test. My dealer has an upgrade policy on amps. Just some more food for thought.

Good luck,

Azeke

[wildfire99]

With a 2ch for the fronts, you are left with an upgrade path to a 5ch amp and moving to a 7.1 speaker setup. A higher wattage amp will just let you make it louder... although there is some consideration for headroom, unless you're listening at serious volumes you'll not hear a difference between a good 75 Watt-Per-Channel amp and a 250 WPC amp. For theater, that may be the case, where you'd be pushing the limits of the 75 WPC unit on transient peaks like gunshots. The requirement for power is exponential... the difference between 5 watts and 70 watts is large, the actual volume difference between 125 watts and 250 watts is just 3db. I personally bought 250WPC amps, because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy at night, but I don't think I need them. I never even clipped my 100WPC Adcom.

But as Azeke mentioned, I would agree there are lots of better places to put the money, including subs, a good front projector, and a better center speaker for better dialog clarity. I personally don't feel you'd be getting $2,000 worth of difference out of amps, at least not right now.

Perhaps if you're local to someone, you could have a show-and-tell session. I'm probably several thousand miles away but if I wasn't I'd love to bring over a few of my amps to see how they sound in your system.

[DLLutz]

I couldn't agree more with Patrick's (wildfire99's) advise. Your yamaha is putting out 130w x 7 and I was really suprized at the spec's. I just don't think you will be happy with the improvement you will see putting a grand or so in a 2 ch. amp for your fronts.

Consider the sub, then your L & R fronts and center speakers first. BUT think about this. If you are thinking HEAVY DUTY, 1st define what exactly HD is?? (for you) and for example buy the sub (or subs) that will end up powering that HD system. Then the fronts, etc..
Then after all that, step up to the plate for some serious HD power amps.

Just my opinion
David

[mike c]

although the yamaha is rated at 130w x 7 ... bench tests have shown that it only does 40-50wpc ALL or 5 (forget which one) channels driven.

but it really does 130w x 2 RMS though.

what they actually mean with 130w x 7 is that EACH of the channels have the capability of 130w PEAK (yes, they blurred the lines between two half truths and merged them together)

[wildfire99]

Yes that is true, HomeTheaterMag says about 65-70 watts with 5ch driven to the max before going over 1% THD. The old counter-point however is, "how often are ALL the channels being driven to their max"? Remember too that the difference between 70 watts and 140 is just 3dB. We can muddy the waters even more by noting the Boston's go down to 3.4 ohms impedence (again HTM's measurements), where the Yammie will be putting out more than it's 8ohm rated power.

I certainly don't disagree that there will be an improvement from an outboard amp. But I feel that improvement is say, 5%, whereas the same amount of investment elsewhere can be from 10-40% improvement, unless the OP is playing the system at 100dB+ continuously. Those Polk mains are quite sensitive and don't take a lot of juice to drive at 93dB sensitivity (even 70 watts will get them to past dolby "reference" -- 105dB). According to HTM (again), they aren't the flattest response of the bunch, and get a bit wild above 10khz. The center is pretty decent too at 90dB rated sensitivity. I have my doubts that the mains will even be able to resolve a noticeable difference with a top-class amp for normal listening.

But as always, audiophila is an emotional thing, and whatever makes people feel good about their system is the best thing to do.

[mike c]

exactly. an all channel driven amp or a 1000wpc amp can give bragging rights and thats all that matters. its the same with all obsessions ... i mean hobbies.